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King, remember this post by TK over on that PBP thread:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=5901&page=1
The second one, whre the guy talks about TDS pens. EC is a measure of electrical conductivity, it's a measure of how easily electrons can move within a substance, all electricity is is flowing electrons. The more salts that are present the easier water can conduct electricity. It's not just salts it's dissolved salts, a solid block of NaCl cannot conduct electricity but made soluble in H2O so that the Na+ ions and Cl- ions dissociate makes an electrically conducive solution. Sugar doesn't do this cause sugar doesn't dissociate in water, yes it dissolves but it's just the molecules are spread out but the molecules don't dissociate, it doesn't form ions.
If there are no ions, if the salts are in their natural forms and not dissociated into ionic salts they WILL NOT register a ppm because they WILL NOT be able to conduct electricity.
If the nutrients were truly organic and they needed to be broken down by bacteria then you wouldn't be able to measure EC correctly. The EC would change according to how much bacteria is available, the type of bacteria and how metabolically active they are.
Check #4 from this link
http://lakeaccess.org/russ/conductivity.htm
Also scroll down and look at the TDS if different lakes. These all have a lot of organic matter in them and the only ones that register high ppms are salt lakes.
Another link about hydroponics and nitrogen:
http://www.maximumyield.com/viewart.php?article=90
When all these things are in their natural state they do not register ppm. If you add pbp to a res and can then check the pH right away or minutes after than the nutrients are already in an ionic form (hopefully the proper ones for plant nutrition).
If you believe everything that companies tell you then you'd spend a fortune on asingle grow. they market a whole lotta stuff cause people buy them up, some of these things are probably good, but some IMO are just not neccessary. I prefer to save a little bit of dough cause you go through a boat load of nutrients in hydroponic systems and it gets expensive to buy
PBP grow, PBP bloom, PBP soil bloom (bloom booster), cal mag, liquid karma, ready gro mix, clearex, silica blast, microbial innoculants, fungal innoculants, and a whole host of different products. Remember they research their own products, they have a vested financial interest in this research.....Merk's research showed Vioxx was a good drug.....turned out they were wrong and knew about it, why....they stood to make money.
The more I study the actual science, ie plant biology, plant physiology, the chemical and biological processes of nutrition and metabolism the more I think that a lot of claims are total bull shit. I'm beginning to think chem nutes with organic additives is the way to go. I'm currently getting the basics from my old Cambell's biology book (standard text for first year bio majors), and online sources. I'm also beginning to think MH is BETTER than HPS no matter what plant stage, and pumping up the nute concentration does more harm than good. A plant is 85-90% water, the dry weight is predominantely carbohydrate.....how is carbohydrates made....photosynthesis. You can increase nute level all you want but if you don't increase photosynthesis the plant simply won't grow any faster. Don't get me wrong a balanced nutrient feed is vital because they need it to produce proteins, nucleic acids and the such but for most folks the limiting condition in their rooms is CO2 and light and messing around with ferts which are already complete is just a waste of money IMO.
"Earth Nectar & Earth Ambrosia. Used together in your cloning system these solutions prevent the slimy buildup that sometimes accompanies the water in the system if not changed often. Using these solutions cuts down on the gray matter that at times appears on fledgling cuttings. You will find this product to be indispensable in your cloning adventures. Sold in set of pints or quarts, must buy both."
seems to me that all they're doing is outcompeting bad microbial components for the nutrients and setting up shop on the roots so those other elements can't......if you change your res like you should or don't experience these problems then I'd rather save the money. ANd I know the gain might be worth it in terms of how expensive weed is but I don't sell and my academic research job pays shit.
peace
PK
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=5901&page=1
The second one, whre the guy talks about TDS pens. EC is a measure of electrical conductivity, it's a measure of how easily electrons can move within a substance, all electricity is is flowing electrons. The more salts that are present the easier water can conduct electricity. It's not just salts it's dissolved salts, a solid block of NaCl cannot conduct electricity but made soluble in H2O so that the Na+ ions and Cl- ions dissociate makes an electrically conducive solution. Sugar doesn't do this cause sugar doesn't dissociate in water, yes it dissolves but it's just the molecules are spread out but the molecules don't dissociate, it doesn't form ions.
If there are no ions, if the salts are in their natural forms and not dissociated into ionic salts they WILL NOT register a ppm because they WILL NOT be able to conduct electricity.
If the nutrients were truly organic and they needed to be broken down by bacteria then you wouldn't be able to measure EC correctly. The EC would change according to how much bacteria is available, the type of bacteria and how metabolically active they are.
Check #4 from this link
http://lakeaccess.org/russ/conductivity.htm
Also scroll down and look at the TDS if different lakes. These all have a lot of organic matter in them and the only ones that register high ppms are salt lakes.
Another link about hydroponics and nitrogen:
http://www.maximumyield.com/viewart.php?article=90
When all these things are in their natural state they do not register ppm. If you add pbp to a res and can then check the pH right away or minutes after than the nutrients are already in an ionic form (hopefully the proper ones for plant nutrition).
If you believe everything that companies tell you then you'd spend a fortune on asingle grow. they market a whole lotta stuff cause people buy them up, some of these things are probably good, but some IMO are just not neccessary. I prefer to save a little bit of dough cause you go through a boat load of nutrients in hydroponic systems and it gets expensive to buy
PBP grow, PBP bloom, PBP soil bloom (bloom booster), cal mag, liquid karma, ready gro mix, clearex, silica blast, microbial innoculants, fungal innoculants, and a whole host of different products. Remember they research their own products, they have a vested financial interest in this research.....Merk's research showed Vioxx was a good drug.....turned out they were wrong and knew about it, why....they stood to make money.
The more I study the actual science, ie plant biology, plant physiology, the chemical and biological processes of nutrition and metabolism the more I think that a lot of claims are total bull shit. I'm beginning to think chem nutes with organic additives is the way to go. I'm currently getting the basics from my old Cambell's biology book (standard text for first year bio majors), and online sources. I'm also beginning to think MH is BETTER than HPS no matter what plant stage, and pumping up the nute concentration does more harm than good. A plant is 85-90% water, the dry weight is predominantely carbohydrate.....how is carbohydrates made....photosynthesis. You can increase nute level all you want but if you don't increase photosynthesis the plant simply won't grow any faster. Don't get me wrong a balanced nutrient feed is vital because they need it to produce proteins, nucleic acids and the such but for most folks the limiting condition in their rooms is CO2 and light and messing around with ferts which are already complete is just a waste of money IMO.
"Earth Nectar & Earth Ambrosia. Used together in your cloning system these solutions prevent the slimy buildup that sometimes accompanies the water in the system if not changed often. Using these solutions cuts down on the gray matter that at times appears on fledgling cuttings. You will find this product to be indispensable in your cloning adventures. Sold in set of pints or quarts, must buy both."
seems to me that all they're doing is outcompeting bad microbial components for the nutrients and setting up shop on the roots so those other elements can't......if you change your res like you should or don't experience these problems then I'd rather save the money. ANd I know the gain might be worth it in terms of how expensive weed is but I don't sell and my academic research job pays shit.
peace
PK
no res changes in soil...
Mycorrhizae are symbiotic associations that form between the roots of most plant species and fungi. These symbioses are characterized by bi-directional movement of nutrients where carbon flows to the fungus and inorganic nutrients move to the plant, thereby providing a critical linkage between the plant root and soil. In infertile soils, nutrients taken up by the mycorrhizal fungi can lead to improved plant growth and reproduction. As a result, mycorrhizal plants are often more competitive and better able to tolerate environmental stresses than are nonmycorrhizal plants.
Mycorrhizal associations vary widely in form and function. Ectomycorrhizal fungi are mostly basidiomycetes that grow between root cortical cells of many tree species, forming a Hartig net. Arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi belong to the order Glomales and form highly branched structures called arbuscules, within root cortical cells of many herbaceous and woody plant species.
Plant responses to colonization by mycorrhizal fungi can range from dramatic growth promotion to growth depression. Factors affecting this response include the mycorrhizal dependency of the host crop, the nutrient status of the soil, and the inoculum potential of the mycorrhizal fungi. Management practices such as tillage, crop rotation, and fallowing may adversely affect populations of mycorrhizal fungi in the field. Where native inoculum potential is low or ineffective, inoculation strategies may be helpful. With the current state of technology, inoculation is most feasible for transplanted crops and in areas where soil disturbance has greatly reduced the native inoculum potential.
Mycorrhizae are symbiotic associations that form between the roots of most plant species and fungi. These symbioses are characterized by bi-directional movement of nutrients where carbon flows to the fungus and inorganic nutrients move to the plant, thereby providing a critical linkage between the plant root and soil. In infertile soils, nutrients taken up by the mycorrhizal fungi can lead to improved plant growth and reproduction. As a result, mycorrhizal plants are often more competitive and better able to tolerate environmental stresses than are nonmycorrhizal plants.
Mycorrhizal associations vary widely in form and function. Ectomycorrhizal fungi are mostly basidiomycetes that grow between root cortical cells of many tree species, forming a Hartig net. Arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi belong to the order Glomales and form highly branched structures called arbuscules, within root cortical cells of many herbaceous and woody plant species.
Plant responses to colonization by mycorrhizal fungi can range from dramatic growth promotion to growth depression. Factors affecting this response include the mycorrhizal dependency of the host crop, the nutrient status of the soil, and the inoculum potential of the mycorrhizal fungi. Management practices such as tillage, crop rotation, and fallowing may adversely affect populations of mycorrhizal fungi in the field. Where native inoculum potential is low or ineffective, inoculation strategies may be helpful. With the current state of technology, inoculation is most feasible for transplanted crops and in areas where soil disturbance has greatly reduced the native inoculum potential.
The benefits afforded plants from mycorrhizal symbioses can be characterized either agronomically by increased growth and yield or ecologically by improved fitness (i.e., reproductive ability). In either case, the benefit accrues primarily because mycorrhizal fungi form a critical linkage between plant roots and the soil. Mycorrhizal fungi usually proliferate both in the root and in the soil. The soilborne or extramatrical hyphae take up nutrients from the soil solution and transport them to the root. By this mechanism, mycorrhizae increase the effective absorptive surface area of the plant. In nutrient-poor or moisture-deficient soils, nutrients taken up by the extramatrical hyphae can lead to improved plant growth and reproduction. As a result, mycorrhizal plants are often more competitive and better able to tolerate environmental stresses than are nonmycorrhizal plants.
Another advantage attributed to mycorrhizal fungi is access to pools of phosphorus not readily available to the plant. One mechanism for this access is the physiochemical release of inorganic and organic phosphorus by organic acids through the action of low-molecular-weight organic anions such as oxalate which can (Fox et al. 1990): (i) replace phosphorus sorbed at metal-hydroxide surfaces through ligand-exchange reactions, (ii) dissolve metal-oxide surfaces that sorb phosphorus, and (iii) complex metals in solution and thus prevent precipitation of metal phosphates.
Another advantage attributed to mycorrhizal fungi is access to pools of phosphorus not readily available to the plant. One mechanism for this access is the physiochemical release of inorganic and organic phosphorus by organic acids through the action of low-molecular-weight organic anions such as oxalate which can (Fox et al. 1990): (i) replace phosphorus sorbed at metal-hydroxide surfaces through ligand-exchange reactions, (ii) dissolve metal-oxide surfaces that sorb phosphorus, and (iii) complex metals in solution and thus prevent precipitation of metal phosphates.
G
Guest
Is mycorrhizal fungi airborne and therefor already present in a hydro system that doesn't utilize res changes? Or is it naturally soil-borne and should be added as a supplement to hydro systems? I use chemical nutes, specifically GH Flora Lucas formula, in a bio-bucket system. Would this even be beneficial to me? Thanks for your help, I'm always looking for a new angle.
G
Guest
I have been using Plant Success for a while now and have had a couple of questions. I use Pure Blend Pro, Liquid Karma for nutes. My question is this. Once added are there other things that you have to be careful of adding that might counteract the fungi or might render it ineffective? Like maybe a fungicide or insecticide. Get my drift?
Also for knowledge ProMix has a soil with this already premixed in it.
Peace Mo,
Also for knowledge ProMix has a soil with this already premixed in it.
Peace Mo,
G
Guest
Well I use AN Piranha Powder, Voodoo Juice and Tarantula with outstanding results!
There is no question that having a strong root system is the best way to have a STRONG plant structure and BIG FAT STICKY BUDS!!!
There is no question that having a strong root system is the best way to have a STRONG plant structure and BIG FAT STICKY BUDS!!!
G
Guest
V, with as much info as there is to get out there cut and paste helps this stoner alot.
Read all the grow threads for actual experience. With all the specific scientific discreptions of the micros it's difficult to retain all that in you brain to retype later or to even summarize.
I think that most of the info is posted in one form or another on alot of different grow sites both cannabis and non-cannabis related as well as the specific manufactures sites. Sometimes links to other sites do not work and are discouraged in some cases.
Not trying to regurgitate, pirate, or steel anything from anybody with giving credit just trying to get the info out there for members.
I use Botanicares line with great results mix ratios, ammendments and cycles are at the beginning of my grow threads.
Tex
Read all the grow threads for actual experience. With all the specific scientific discreptions of the micros it's difficult to retain all that in you brain to retype later or to even summarize.
I think that most of the info is posted in one form or another on alot of different grow sites both cannabis and non-cannabis related as well as the specific manufactures sites. Sometimes links to other sites do not work and are discouraged in some cases.
Not trying to regurgitate, pirate, or steel anything from anybody with giving credit just trying to get the info out there for members.
I use Botanicares line with great results mix ratios, ammendments and cycles are at the beginning of my grow threads.
Tex
Yeah, I appreciate that TK! 
Just imo it would only take a couple'a seconds more to stick up a link to the source of any piece of text not written by the poster.. also helps peeps to learn more and more.
This site is cool, really laid back... but it is only fair to give credit where it is due, imo.
Anyway... congratulations to the team on a wonderfull site... :friends:
verge
Just imo it would only take a couple'a seconds more to stick up a link to the source of any piece of text not written by the poster.. also helps peeps to learn more and more.
This site is cool, really laid back... but it is only fair to give credit where it is due, imo.
Anyway... congratulations to the team on a wonderfull site... :friends:
verge
kilacaLIbud
Active member
mycrorri..
mycrorri..
i went to the hydro store today in the ghetto of so cali. to get some alaska fish fert 5-1-1(thick shit) and i asked him for some mycorrisal ..and he handed me a package with what looked to be a bud plant on it with a big o root ball and was like ...this stuff is good u have to use all organics on it...i think he knew what i was gettin it for...he was a old stoner lookin guy,...but im not gettin mycorrisal untill i transplant a lil to expensive...17.99
mycrorri..
i went to the hydro store today in the ghetto of so cali. to get some alaska fish fert 5-1-1(thick shit) and i asked him for some mycorrisal ..and he handed me a package with what looked to be a bud plant on it with a big o root ball and was like ...this stuff is good u have to use all organics on it...i think he knew what i was gettin it for...he was a old stoner lookin guy,...but im not gettin mycorrisal untill i transplant a lil to expensive...17.99
I never understand how someone can be cheap about buying products for weed. WIth the amount of money you save growing your own "a hundred here or there" shouldn't be an issue. I save over 800 a month because of it, so why not put some money back into what takes care of you... but oh well... to each their own.
I guess that's why I've never been very good at saving... maybe "a penny saved is a penny earned" really is worth living by.. im just not any good at it.
I guess that's why I've never been very good at saving... maybe "a penny saved is a penny earned" really is worth living by.. im just not any good at it.
kilacaLIbud
Active member
ha
ha
...ha i think ive spent more on the grow then on weed..cause i usually dont buy it...but im not in a secure position to be gettin any drastic wattage...or anything..just yet...but when i do move and get WAttage and a job i will be spending money ...so far ive bought foxfarms grow big ..and that was the most expensive shit ..and im also thinkin about gettin some liquid karma..
ha
...ha i think ive spent more on the grow then on weed..cause i usually dont buy it...but im not in a secure position to be gettin any drastic wattage...or anything..just yet...but when i do move and get WAttage and a job i will be spending money ...so far ive bought foxfarms grow big ..and that was the most expensive shit ..and im also thinkin about gettin some liquid karma..
Here's a link to fungiperfecti.com . Paul Staments who wrote "The Mushroom Cultivator", generally considered by many as the "Bible" of mushroom cultivation, owns this company and sells a product like that being discussed here.
The second link is a picture of two plants one with the fungi additive and one without. It looks impressive, especially for anyone using soil. Has anyone here ever used this particular product?
Has anyone ever seen a product similiar to this in any stores such as a Walmart or the like?
Thanks.
http://www.fungiperfecti.com/mycogrow/index.html
http://www.fungiperfecti.com/mycogrow/growpics/poppies.jpg
The second link is a picture of two plants one with the fungi additive and one without. It looks impressive, especially for anyone using soil. Has anyone here ever used this particular product?
Has anyone ever seen a product similiar to this in any stores such as a Walmart or the like?
Thanks.
http://www.fungiperfecti.com/mycogrow/index.html
http://www.fungiperfecti.com/mycogrow/growpics/poppies.jpg
The first link says:
"Sadly, modern techniques for clearing and developing land for human use destroy mycorrhizal fungi, reducing the ability of plants to thrive in man-made environments and forcing us to resort to fertilizers and other artificial means of promoting plant growth."
You're gonna be using fertilizer anyways right? He's talking about outdoors. I still think it's not neccessary, I've never used it, I've seen BOGs plants and they're huge and it's not part of his soil recipe. It won't hurt and might help but it probably won't be the huge dramatic change that that guy claims. I mean, he is trying to sell his product.
here's a link I just found :
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/botany/msg11071612722.html
If you really want to innoculate you could take a handful of soil outside near a healthy tree and mix it into your soil, that will innoculate it for free. But of interest to me was the last comment on that page. About the study that found that when plants had plenty of water and fertile conditions the fungi didn't form associations with the plant even if they were present. There are 2 sides to this issue, like most others and it's not easy since some studies are just inappropriate to compare to cannabis.
"Sadly, modern techniques for clearing and developing land for human use destroy mycorrhizal fungi, reducing the ability of plants to thrive in man-made environments and forcing us to resort to fertilizers and other artificial means of promoting plant growth."
You're gonna be using fertilizer anyways right? He's talking about outdoors. I still think it's not neccessary, I've never used it, I've seen BOGs plants and they're huge and it's not part of his soil recipe. It won't hurt and might help but it probably won't be the huge dramatic change that that guy claims. I mean, he is trying to sell his product.
here's a link I just found :
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/botany/msg11071612722.html
If you really want to innoculate you could take a handful of soil outside near a healthy tree and mix it into your soil, that will innoculate it for free. But of interest to me was the last comment on that page. About the study that found that when plants had plenty of water and fertile conditions the fungi didn't form associations with the plant even if they were present. There are 2 sides to this issue, like most others and it's not easy since some studies are just inappropriate to compare to cannabis.
Hey ..playin in dirt. If your runnin organic Hydro & you wanna use Granular MYCO/TRYCODERMA fungus in your res.. You need Panty hose.. Real sea sponge(the bacteria seem to munch on fake ones & they turn to shit).. Put sea sponge in panty hose(make sponge the size of a softball) put your MYCO/TRYCO in on top of the sea sponge.. Then hang it under a return line in your res With half the sponge in the solution & half outa solution..(they gotta breath) with an air bubbler underneath it.. You have to get air to it hence the half in half out of solution thing.. Your just built a benificial bungaloo that will amaze you with root protection a well as general plant health . No peroxide in organic as it kills your benificials..Good luck & stress free growin to all.... Stretch
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Most people dont know that EN/EA also contains beneficial nematodes in them [ which arent listed by that name on the ingredients.] I think one part has the inactivated eggs in it [clear] and the other part an egg activator [dark]. When you add the parts together that activates the nematodes into action and they will cruise thru moist soil looking for any critters that give off co2 [ soil gnats, thrips, etc.]
I kinda freaked out when I found them as I added a double dose mix of the en/ea to some small pots and then overwatered them a few days later over a black tub and saw all these little microscopic worms come out in the run off.
Bene nematodes will remain in moist soil but will die quickly in dry soil and when exposed to a ph shock difference of more than a point or two.
I kinda freaked out when I found them as I added a double dose mix of the en/ea to some small pots and then overwatered them a few days later over a black tub and saw all these little microscopic worms come out in the run off.
Bene nematodes will remain in moist soil but will die quickly in dry soil and when exposed to a ph shock difference of more than a point or two.
G
Guest
What kind of products kill the bacteria/fungi? Nutrient, supplement wise? I don't want to start using them to later find out that the nutes I were using just destroyed them.
