mycorrhizae with organics

[magiccannabus]

2/ As you know I'm currently involved in researching (literature) for some answers to fungal interactions. You have injected time consideration into the mix. Unfortunately I am yet no expert at the microscopic identification of fungal species. However, when rooting cuttings in sphagnum peat moss, I have seen roots emergent with fungi mycelia apparently radiating out from the roots. This definitely merits investigation. My top of head hypothesis is that the fungi association came from spores laying dormant in the peat. Besides the AM fungi potential infection of cannabis roots, I encourage that thought be given to the synergistic relationship with other fruiting and non-fruiting fungi, per se even ectomycorrhizal. As I mention in my growing method outline we had several varieties of mushrooms growing along with the plants, which I'm fairly certain delivered nutrients to the root systems.

I'm not surprised, I've had it appear in coir too. Do soil spores ever go airborne?

Also, not sure it's related, but when I use aerated tea on my coir rooting pucks, I get better rooting speeds. I have noticed good fungal growth forming on the roots as they poke out the sides of the pucks. This synergistic association you mention, could it possibly begin in the rooting phase?

 

[Microbeman]

I'm not surprised, I've had it appear in coir too. Do soil spores ever go airborne?

Also, not sure it's related, but when I use aerated tea on my coir rooting pucks, I get better rooting speeds. I have noticed good fungal growth forming on the roots as they poke out the sides of the pucks. This synergistic association you mention, could it possibly begin in the rooting phase?

Yes, if viable spores are in the rooting media.

 

[maryjohn]

so, if ganga's research is correct, then in short i have the choice of feeding my plant with organic ferts at the expense of the myco, or starving my plant so as the myco arent compromised???

i only used it for the first time in this run i've just started - and i used my regular pretty rich organic soil - so it will be interesting to see if the myco succeeds

is it easy to tell with the naked eye if the myco have grown??

i always thought that myco was more important for smaller pots and i use very big pots - as big as i can fit into my cab- so i never thought it necessary. also i got great results without it. but it was an impulse buy when i saw it at the garden centre

V.

the whole thing turns on "available P". From what i know verdant, the P you use is sequestered or non-soluble. You use rock phosphate, and eschew animal products, right?

There is no reason to believe you will inhibit them beyond usefulness, although you probably will get less fungal action than my squashes had. then again I did not dig up the roots after death as I don't do that anymore.

regular mix, no triple phosphate, and you should have colonization. but from what I have seen you can have less total P and still get great results.

I always think of P as crucial to healthy roots. Flowers are actually an afterthought because there is always enough.

forgive me If I have you confused with mircrobeman.

 

[VerdantGreen]

i do use rock phosphate but also high P guano

are the myco easy to see when you inspect the root zone (after harvest)

 

[maryjohn]

You might be able to reduce you guano verdant, but I hesitate to recommend anything to you considering what you grows look like.

After harvest I have never checked, but at transplant yes I can see them.

Or I am seeing something else. Never taken a myco id lesson. There is something that appears to be from that kingdom all over my roots.

 

[chef]

Why all the speculation & not a single controlled test?
It couldn't get much simpler... 2 plants, 60 days & you'll KNOW!

 

[maryjohn]

you consider 2 plants a controlled test?

it's not enough of a sample size, and you must control for everything else. light, water, fertility, everything.

It's a hell of a task just to agree on the parameters.

 

[chef]

Bullshit!

1 myco innoculated, 1 not, any difference?
Infinitely more helpful than comparing an outdoor squash to an indoor container grow of ganja lol

 

[maryjohn]

Do you really want to discuss this or are you just trolling? It's hard to tell for me, and the claim is quite preposterous.

The scientific method is what it is, no room for debate. A controlled experiment is a defined thing. And we are off topic. Worth it if I can really correct your mistake, but otherwise a waste of time.

With 2 plants you fail to control for genetic variation, possible bias of experimenter, inconsistency of medium, experimenter error, just plain luck, light placement, and on and on.

Some parameters have to be decided, for instance watering. Do you water as needed? PLants colonized by root fungus are supposed to need less water - does that mean you are being unfair and adding a bias by only watering at the same time? are both fed the same? feeding high P would preclude healthy root fungus according to some, but feeding low P would be unfair to the naked root plant. so how do you feed to control?

you can't control for everything but root fungus with just 2 plants and one run.

 

[chef]

I've been running 2-3 plant controls like that since I got a copy of Marijuana Botany in the early 80's
Nowadays, its identical clones & medium running on a drip to waste from a res of nutes in a sealed & controlled atmosphere. (Well, C02 gen coming soon for winter, its Airco & dehumidified ATM)
My girls are scary symetrical, spot on everytime!
I do ANYTHING different to a plant, it tells me... Good, Bad or Neutral.

Try it with things, you could eliminate a lot of the "supposed to" from your discussions. It feels great to eliminate those noid sessions from not knowing certain things too
That fkin drives me nuts, I've always had to SEE for myself.

My latest improvement was using multiple worm castings for various distinct micro herd populations. Not huge (slightly improved vigor, taste, aroma) but is a permanent part of my soil mix from here on out. Min. 3 types of EWC & am adding a 4th soon, ROOTS kelp fed EWC.The same for my teas.
My 3 mix was...
#1 M.J.R. Brand (a local worm farm's remake of oldschool Original Black Gold, just peat, perlite & fresh EWC) Gives great taste by itself too, if limited to only one I would use this!
#2 Happy Frog (almost same as above, plus humics, myco-bac)
#3 Mega-Worm EWC (This stuff is nice, sifted & pure.) Spendy tho.
#4 Perlite, some meals, GW myco-bac, bit of guano, a few currently secret ingredients & Kaboom!

All organic in 10gal Smart Pots in a 10x10 room (1000sq ft) which keeps roomwide calculations. fluctuations really simple too.
If I could have 1 more plant #25,,, I wouldn't need a calculator lol

 

[ganja din]

yes please keep posting. don't take the criticism as an invitation to leave.

No worries. I didn't take it personally, I have a pretty thick skin. I am however surprised you are still disagreeing about plant available minerals like N and P. So, I thought I'd try to prove it to your sanctification. If you still do not agree after reading this I'd like to drop this part of the discussion because it would be going nowhere.

I am using the USCC (United Stated Composting Council) guide/rules for testing compost, along with a sample compost report from the "Agricultural Analytical Services Laboratory"; at the The Pennsylvania State University. I have used there services in the past and was very impressed. The USCC guide/rules are strict and I think fairly recent (years?), and is titled "Test Methods for the Examination of Composting and Compost" (TMECC).

I am going to quote two short passes from the "Interpretation" section of the same report from PA State U labs. I think you will see what I am trying to describe, and which I think MM might agree? I posted the quotes below the picture. I am attaching a few files to this post:

a) "COMPOST QUALITY FACT SHEET #4: Testing Composts"
Department of Crop and Soil Sciences, Cornell Waste Management Institute

b) "COMPOST ANALYSIS REPORT"
Agricultural Analytical Services Laboratory, The Pennsylvania State University

c) 'testing compost feedstocks and compost'
A guide from Cornell Univeristy



I made a picture for you, I suck at describing things sometimes. Maybe this will get my point across better:

QUOTE:
"Nitrogen:Total, Organic, Ammonium, and Nitrate

Total nitrogen (N) includes all forms of nitrogen: organic N, ammonium N (NH4-N), and nitrate N (NO3-N). Total N will normally range from less than 1 % to around 5% (dry weight basis) in most feedstocks and from 0.5 to 2.5% (dry weight basis) in finished composts. NO3-N (an optional test) is generally present in only low concentrations in immature composts, although may increase as the compost matures. NH4-N levels may be high during initial stages of the composting process, but decrease as maturity increases. Organic N is determined by subtracting the inorganic N forms, NH4-N and NO3-N, from total N. However, because NO3-N levels are generally very low, total nitrogen minus NH3-N provides a good estimate of organic N in most composts and is the value shown on the front of this report. In stable, finished composts, most of the N should be in the organic form. While NH4-N and NO3-N are immediately available to plants, organic N is only slowly available, approximately 10% per year. However, mineralization of organic N into available inorganic forms depends on the C:N ratio (see below) as well as factors such as soil moisture and temperature"[1]


...

"Phosphorus, Potassium

Phosphorus (P) and potassium (K) are plant macronutrients. Values reported are for total amounts given in the oxide forms (P2O5 and K2O). These results provide an indicationof the nutrient value of the compost sample. However, plant availability of total phosphorus and potassium in compost has not yet been established."[1]


...


"Labs will either analyze total amounts of nutrients or “plant available” forms. You should ask them what type of tests they offer. If you want to know the amounts of plant available nutrients only, request that they do a “saturated paste or media” extract of the compost. This test will give you amounts of nutrients that are most soluble in water. If you only ask for total nutrients, in most cases, you can’t assume that the total amounts of nutrients present will be available for crop uptake. In fact, very little of the total nitrogen is available to crop (usually less than 10% of the total) in the first growing season. "[2]



[1] "COMPOST ANALYSIS REPORT"
Agricultural Analytical Services Laboratory, The Pennsylvania State University


[2] 'testing compost feedstocks and compost'
A guide from Cornell University


.

 

[maryjohn]

Hmm I can't see the picture on my iPhone. Which brings me to my apology: I originally saw your stuff On an iPhone and my jaw dropped. It's well written and I should have given you a chance. Seeing it on a CPU it was not so bad, just unexpectedly thorough. I apologize for putting you in a box of my making.

I agree with the above of course. But root fungus are affected negatively by the plant available forms, not the total. And in organic growing we try to keep water soluble forms to a minimum, which is the biggest environmental benefit. Agreed?

I tend to seek out the non available sources, and hopefully do not have too much available at one time. I've got cash in the bank and in stocks, but not much in my pocket so I don't lose it and waste it.

 

[ganja din]

This took me by pleasant surprise, I forgot you post here

Hey Gugna er Gunga er Ganja Din,

1/ In your monologue you mentioned the necessity of high P inputs to produce large or heavy flower production in the cannabis/hemp plant. Once we started utilizing natural growing techniques we found this not to be the case at all. We never varied what little inputs we used from planting to death. I recently posted the indoor method used but hell if I know where it is now. Of course we also used a no-till let the soil stay alive method [which you mentioned] We did previously use the high P at flower and noticed no subsequent difference in flower size.

That's interesting. I was referring to levels of P above the preference of most garden plants, vegetables, etc. What the level actually is I do not know. But I do have multiple trials in mind I was going to email you about. I'm going to setup a few designed trials of clones using General Hydroponic Micro and Bloom at the standard 8ml and 16ml per gallon, respectively, on 16 plants. The organic side (16 plants) will get hydrolyzed fish, kelp and humic acid, along with CT and media amended with azomite. For additional Ca, etc in the organic side I will use OMRI amino acids as foliar spray, thus preventing any issues with Ca locking out other minerals which are not as concentrate.

For testing I was going to use my fancy new microscope and HD camera to watch the micro-herd, along with a soil-analysis kit for minerals and sending off media samples to get tested at the lab. I hope to gather enough data to quantify how much total % organic N, P, K, etc, will support vigorous growth and yields. I suspect you are correct, and with true sustainable organic horticulture cannabis can thrive on low(ish)-medium levels of macronutrients (whatever low(ish)-medium means )...I'm also going to start more PnSB work very soon, that is 1st on my list of things to do once I am skilled at the microscope...

2/ As you know I'm currently involved in researching (literature) for some answers to fungal interactions. You have injected time consideration into the mix. Unfortunately I am yet no expert at the microscopic identification of fungal species.

As far as I understand identification of AM fungi species is not trivial, but identification of AM fungi genera is fairly trivial, making it possible to know at least if the fungi is AM fungi or not. I am also interested in of other types of fungi, especially the Phylum Basidiomycota (which is *very* large and is bound to have many fungi which offer benefits to plants). Most bits of info I have read refers to using spore for genus identification of AM fungi. INVAM uses spore for identification I believe.

I do have a little list of resources you may be interested in. You probably already know about these but in case you do not I put it here. If you want them I can email you them. What about Bryce Kendrick of the 5th Kingdom, maybe he know more info? I bet INVAM could provide a lot of info.


a) "How to Identify Mushrooms to Genus III: Microscopic Features"
by David L. Largent
(paperback)



b) "Using a Microscope to Study Mushrooms"
by Micheal Kuo
(most of this you know I'm sure, but maybe you'll find it interesting)
http://www.mushroomexpert.com/microscope.html



c) "Mycelium of Arbuscular Mycorrhizal fungi (AMF) from different genera: form, function and detection"
Author(s): John C. Dodd, Claire L. Boddington, Alia Rodriguez, C
Journal of Plant and Science, Volume 226, Number 2 / November, 2000
(PDF)

Besides the AM fungi potential infection of cannabis roots, I encourage that thought be given to the synergistic relationship with other fruiting and non-fruiting fungi, per se even ectomycorrhizal. As I mention in my growing method outline we had several varieties of mushrooms growing along with the plants, which I'm fairly certain delivered nutrients to the root systems.

There is quite a bit of research into plant and fungi relationships. I haven't look into it too much, but I do have a good PDF which agrees with your above statement, and is a great source of information on all types my mycorrhizal fungi.


"The Microbial World: Mycorrhizas"
by Jim Deacon
Institute of Cell and Molecular Biology, The University of Edinburgh

Concerning the discussion of P being available. Certainly, using the soft rock phosphate as our sequestered source of P, it is readily made available by microbial interaction, both fungal and bacterial/archaeal [sic] but one must not leave the cellular communication from the plant out of the equation.

Yea that was a 'concern' I have with that paper JayKush linked to. It made it seem like plants were hapless and helpless organisms...

Hey Mr. Din; Where do you get those $700 microscopes? <GRIN>

haha

 

[ganja din]

Hmm I can't see the picture on my iPhone. Which brings me to my apology: I originally saw your stuff On an iPhone and my jaw dropped.

Haha. I know exactly what your talking about!

I agree with the above of course. But root fungus are affected negatively by the plant available forms, not the total.

By root fungus if you mean AM fungus then yes, I agree. But, the total can also harm AM fungi if there is too much of it. I could not imagine a situation where that would happen though. But I assume >10-15% soft rock phosphate (volume/volume) would not make the AM fungi flourish. Also, the greater the organic fraction (generally) the greater the inorganic fraction. And the greater the inorganic fraction the less the facultative mycorrhizal plant, and maybe obligate mycorrhizal plant, needs the AM fungi...see where I am going with this thought?

And in organic growing we try to keep water soluble forms to a minimum, which is the biggest environmental benefit. Agreed?

Yes. But it's not up to us, unless we starve the micro-herd. As MM eluded to, a plant can 'tell' microbes in the rhizosphere that it needs more of substance X (via. exudes in most cases). And the communication is two way, microbes can 'tell' the plant they need substance Y. Basically the micro-herd and plant tried to achieve homeostasis in the media and especially the rhizosphere (or would that be 'rhizostasis', or other?). Thus, 'they' can decide when, why and how much 'water soluble' inorganic minerals are needed and will/can be supplied (aka "microbial bio-fertilizers"). That is a very simplistic explanation but it's accurate enough I think. (MM, your thoughts? Corrections?)

I tend to seek out the non available sources, and hopefully do not have too much available at one time. I've got cash in the bank and in stocks, but not much in my pocket so I don't lose it and waste it.

Well like my picture states, the organic fraction of any organic fert, compost, etc should be the majority of total % N. That is why the inorganic fraction of organic ferts, compost, etc is not too much of a concern (caveat: blood meal, bone meal, etc). However, in the specific case of AM fungi even a very low level of inorganic microbial bio-fertilizers can hinder AM fungi to a large degree.

Shalom my freind

 

[maryjohn]

I'm on my computer now and the pic still won't show.

By root fungus if you mean AM fungus then yes, I agree. But, the total can also harm AM fungi if there is too much of it. I could not imagine a situation where that would happen though. But I assume >10-15% soft rock phosphate (volume/volume) would not make the AM fungi flourish. Also, the greater the organic fraction (generally) the greater the inorganic fraction. And the greater the inorganic fraction the less the facultative mycorrhizal plant, and maybe obligate mycorrhizal plant, needs the AM fungi...see where I am going with this thought?

true, with the proviso that some inorganic forms, particularly P, are not water soluble or plant available. This is why triple phosphate was invented; the mineral form (I believe sequestered is the wrong term here from my linguistic perspective) is subjected to chemical treatment to make it available.

Yes. But it's not up to us, unless we starve the micro-herd. As MM eluded to, a plant can 'tell' microbes in the rhizosphere that it needs more of substance X (via. exudes in most cases). And the communication is two way, microbes can 'tell' the plant they need substance Y. Basically the micro-herd and plant tried to achieve homeostasis in the media and especially the rhizosphere (or would that be 'rhizostasis', or other?). Thus, 'they' can decide when, why and how much 'water soluble' inorganic minerals are needed and will/can be supplied (aka "microbial bio-fertilizers"). That is a very simplistic explanation but it's accurate enough I think. (MM, your thoughts? Corrections?)

some missing perspective here: time. In active soil with lots of predation and cycling, available nutes can't wash away because they are a valuable resource to the soil life (they are in competition as well as cooperating; alliances of convenience) and thus are never left to just float around. If nothing grabs it, diffusion takes over and takes it to something that will. By the time water arrives to wash it away it is sequestered - in the bank. The key is a very active soil - in which case, yes, it is up to us. Poor management can make competition too stiff (as in nitrogen robbing) or too lax, as in conventionally managed soil or even a field with too many cow carcasses and manure at once. Organic or inorganic, too many nutrients in one place has the same effect. Just like our own urine is killing our waters via sewage that is treated for bacteria but not nutrients.

Edit: In short - assume the plant needs 100 moles of x over 24 hours or it dies. If it lives, do we assume 100 moles of x were available concurrently and for the entire 24 hours?

I know of the cellular communication talk but I don't know enough to comment really. I just know that well managed organic soil does not leach, yet the plant gets enough. To many that is the whole point We're talking a completely different paradigm compared to conventional NPK. To me the nutrient cycle should only have small windows of opportunity for any creature to grab some free nutrients, even better if nutrients have to be traded and such trading is going strong. This is the equilibrium you refer to and is the objective IMO.

Well like my picture states, the organic fraction of any organic fert, compost, etc should be the majority of total % N. That is why the inorganic fraction of organic ferts, compost, etc is not too much of a concern (caveat: blood meal, bone meal, etc). However, in the specific case of AM fungi even a very low level of inorganic microbial bio-fertilizers can hinder AM fungi to a large degree.

pic won't work, but I can only say that by using blood meal, bone meal, and kelp meal with only a little fish hydrolysate (plus biotone which is where I get my root fungus - it has feathermeal, greensand, cocoa meal, and some other goodies), my plant got enough P to grow good roots, had Fungal interaction, and got good buds. However I did not use massive amounts of any of those, and they sat for a good while before the plant was introduced. I do not plan on adding more bone meal or blood to the soil for a good many grows, and I rest it with some unfinished worm castings on top that contains wigglers and cocoons. I'll let you know what I see.

This all begs the question: how do natural mycorhizae survive a large animal marking event? There is tons of P in ionic form, as well as urea and all the rest in urine. The plant can shut down N uptake apparently, but how does the root fungus survive?

 

[ganja din]

Kwool!

I found a great paper all about the success to date in culturing AM fungi *without* a mycorrhiza association! And it's like 7 years old, wtf, why didn't I find this before???

The researchers used agar which happen to get covered with a slime-forming type of bacteria (Paenibacillus validus). And surprisingly, the AM fungi grew the and the hyphae spread over the petri dish, thick "coils" of hyphae were noted. The AM fungi even sporulated! It seems the AM fungi is the bacteria as a food source in some fashion.

I don't know if you guys/gals realize how big of a step this is. One main limiting factor in the study of AM fungi is the general inability to do so in vitro. If this method turns out to be a viable option that would be very cool. I would love to germinate some spores and grow out some petri


Here is a link to the full text as HTML:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=123902


ANd here is a link to the full text as a PDF:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=123902&blobtype=pdf




"Towards Growth of Arbuscular Mycorrhizal Fungi Independent of a Plant Host"
Ulrich Hildebrandt, Katharina Janetta, and Hermann Bothe
Botanisches Institut, Universität zu Köln, D-50923 Cologne, Germany
2002, American Society for Microbiology

Abstract:

When surface-sterilized spores of the arbuscular mycorrhizal fungus (AMF) Glomus intraradices Sy167 were germinated on agar plates in the slightly modified minimum mineral medium described by G. Bécard and J. A. Fortin (New Phytol. 108:211-218, 1988), slime-forming bacteria, identified as Paenibacillus validus, frequently grew up. These bacteria were able to support growth of the fungus on the agar plates. In the presence of P. validus, hyphae branched profusely and formed coiled structures. These were much more densely packed than the so-called arbuscule-like structures which are formed by AMF grown in coculture with carrot roots transformed with T-DNA from Agrobacterium rhizogenes. The presence of P. validus alone also enabled G. intraradices to form new spores, mainly at the densely packed hyphal coils. The new spores were not as abundant as and were smaller than those formed by AMF in the monoxenic culture with carrot root tissues, but they also contained lipid droplets and a large number of nuclei. In these experiments P. validus could not be replaced by bacteria such as Escherichia coli K-12 or Azospirillum brasilense Sp7. Although no conditions under which the daughter spores regerminate and colonize plants have been found yet, and no factor(s) from P. validus which stimulates fungal growth has been identified, the present findings might be a significant step forward toward growth of AMF independent of any plant host.

Here are some references, I need to download a couple of these for the full text. They are regarding so-called "endosymbioint" bacteria and some plants. One neat study is where the researchers found certain bacteria 'eat' the out layer of a AM fungi spore (the "hyaline" layer), which was hypothesized to benefit germination.


[1] "Bacteria Associated with Spores of the Arbuscular Mycorrhizal Fungi
Glomusgeosporum and Glomusconstrictum"
Author(s): DavidRoesti, Kurt Ineichen, Olivier Braissant, Dirk Redecker, Andres Wiemken, and Michel Aragno
APPLIEDAND ENVIRONMENTAL MICROBIOLOGY, Nov.2005, p.6673–667



[2] "Detection and Identification of Bacterial Endosymbionts in Arbuscular Mycorrhizal Fungi Belonging to the Family Gigasporaceae"
VALERIABIANCIOTTO, ERICALUMINI, LUISALANFRANCO, DANIELAMINERDI, PAOLABONFANTE AND SILVIAPEROTTO
Applied and Environmental Microbiology, Oct, 2000, p.4503-4509



[3] "Phosphate solubilizing bacteria isolated from the inside of Blomus mosseae spores from Cuba"
Author(s): Loreli Mirabal-Alonso and Eduardo Ortega-Delgado
Developments in Plant and Soil Sciences, Vol. 102
First International Meeting on Microbial Phosphate Solubilization, 2007
(I need to d/l the full text) http://www.springerlink.com/content/v37m29587ll36m82/



[4] "Annual Review of Microbiology: Plants, Mycorrhizal Fungi, and Bacteria: A Network of Interactions"
Author(s): Paola Bonfante and Iulia-Andra AncaVol. 63: 363-383, October 2009





P.S. Here is a very well written and accurte web resource, I just found it:

"Glomeromycota: Arubcular mycorrhizal fungi and their relative(s)"
http:www.tolweb.org/glomeromycots

.

 

[happyhi]

question/GD

question/GD

Haha. I know exactly what your talking about!


By root fungus if you mean AM fungus then yes, I agree. But, the total can also harm AM fungi if there is too much of it. I could not imagine a situation where that would happen though. But I assume >10-15% soft rock phosphate (volume/volume) would not make the AM fungi flourish. Also, the greater the organic fraction (generally) the greater the inorganic fraction. And the greater the inorganic fraction the less the facultative mycorrhizal plant, and maybe obligate mycorrhizal plant, needs the AM fungi...see where I am going with this thought?





Yes. But it's not up to us, unless we starve the micro-herd. As MM eluded to, a plant can 'tell' microbes in the rhizosphere that it needs more of substance X (via. exudes in most cases). And the communication is two way, microbes can 'tell' the plant they need substance Y. Basically the micro-herd and plant tried to achieve homeostasis in the media and especially the rhizosphere (or would that be 'rhizostasis', or other?). Thus, 'they' can decide when, why and how much 'water soluble' inorganic minerals are needed and will/can be supplied (aka "microbial bio-fertilizers"). That is a very simplistic explanation but it's accurate enough I think. (MM, your thoughts? Corrections?)





Well like my picture states, the organic fraction of any organic fert, compost, etc should be the majority of total % N. That is why the inorganic fraction of organic ferts, compost, etc is not too much of a concern (caveat: blood meal, bone meal, etc). However, in the specific case of AM fungi even a very low level of inorganic microbial bio-fertilizers can hinder AM fungi to a large degree.

Shalom my freind

Does this mean that if the herd is healthy and the medium charged that the plant controls it's nutrient uptake and any efforts
on our part to manipulate that is sort of a waste of time because the
plant is in charge? sorry if this question is stupid, but i'm really trying to make sense of all this incredibly rigorous discussion. I am struggling to
understand it but am thankful for the highly scientific discussion.
peace/hh

 

[maryjohn]

shit that's cool ganja. I wish I were in a position to get a microscope and go microscoping with you. I have too much shit as it is.

 

[happyhi]

without any of the correct scientific terms i'd like to try and ask a few more questions and
will apologize up front for anything that is dumb.

The ground has a maze of fungus that inhabits it, the fungus is specific to different plants,
trees, etc. different types of fungus can work together in a symbiotic way to help themselves and the plants they interact with. they come in many flavors and can be both
good and bad. the total extent of their interaction is not fully understood. specific strains can be very beneficial and are what growers try and find and use to inoculate soils, trying to match up the fungi with the plants needs. In the perfect situation the plant determines what it eats and when based upon its needs because everything is available provided the soil web is very healthy.
I realize this is very simplistic but am i on the right track?
many thanks for any reply.
peace/hh

 

[maryjohn]

sounds good to me HH except I am not sure the plant demand thing goes the way it is explained to me so far. seems a bit too tidy, and I never find out which nutrients we are talking about and what has been confirmed. It just makes too much sense to be entirely true... know what I mean? it's the narrative that bugs me past a certain point.

scientific terms are overrated. "mycorrhizae": ORIGIN late 19th cent.: modern Latin, from myco- [of fungi] + Greek rhiza ‘root.’

thus: root fungus is a good english word that reaches people ignorant of the subject without extensive knowledge of romance languages or training in the classics or etymology of english words.

while we're on words, this is from a little blurb on AM :

To exchange nutrients, the fungi penetrate the cell walls and form a branching, tree-like structure termed an arbuscule inside the cell lumen, and the plant invaginates its plasma membrane, matching the branching pattern of the fungus.

yes, he said "invaginate". you figure it out.