Myco/Mychorrhizae Products: What Do YOU Swear By And Why?

[Lost in a SOG]

Lmao propaganda.. like cvh had some insidious vested interest in educating you there.. or trying to.

Anything other than organic and they will die in no time.. synthetic nutes and medias dont provide anything for microorganisms to live on or in or sustain them nor does the plant care to sustain them through root exudates.

So dumb im even saying this, the plant creates and sustains the relationship because it needs the microorganisms, if you put synthetic nutes in that relationship breaks down as the plants dont need the bacteria.. and it is highly selective.. tons of books showing this and primary research for decades.

Im not sure how ppl imagine a rich variety of bacteria or fungi can live in an inert media having synthetic nutes poured into it.. Get a microscope and look for yourself.

 

[Lost in a SOG]

Back to the thread.

The Mykos tea seemed very good for anyone on the fence my ladies really loved that more than i expected. Wallace organic wonder is awesome, bu's brew.. Great white shark, Mykos, Azos (not a myco product but still) when potting up. BioAg but struggling to get it in the uk. its all about the glomulus intraradices..

 

[Applesauce]

Lmao propaganda.. like cvh had some insidious vested interest in educating you there.. or trying to.

Anything other than organic and they will die in no time.. synthetic nutes and medias dont provide anything for microorganisms to live on or in or sustain them nor does the plant care to sustain them through root exudates.

Very arrogant of you to be so sure of something that is false. Bacteria feed off soluble synthetic nutrients. Bacteria + myco are compatible with synthetic nutrients. Many coco growers using salts, for instance, will add carb sources to add in microbial biomass, but this isn't necessary to maintain bactera + fungi populations. You will find conflicting information on high P dosages reducing but not eliminating myco density in substrate - that's about it. The following claim you made "Anything other than organic and they will die in no time.. synthetic nutes and medias dont provide anything for microorganisms to live on or in or sustain them" is provable incorrect. Science says. Synthetic ferts = soil sterilizer is a bold claim.

https://www.ipni.net/publication/stewardship.nsf/0/71DD530E0E89AC3385257BE500554769/$FILE/StewSpec-EN-16.pdf

 

[Applesauce]

Get a microscope and look for yourself.

I do and your claim that synthetic ferts are not compatible with beneficial microbes is inaccurate. Science says - why does this bother you? Seems like organic elitism. I grow organic outdoors, salts inside and both are good. I also recognize the benefits of microbes with synthetic ferts.

 

[Lost in a SOG]

No you're just talking bollocks.

If you add N ferts then you totally balls up nutrient cycling between the different nitrogen bacteria just as one example.

I can pull up quite a few studies examining the difference and ive looked at the differences under microscopes.

Essentially bacteria and fungi exist all in niches where they can free up electrons and generate energy by breaking matter down in stages often leaving a niche for another microbe to finish the job, often aerobes to anaerobes. If you put the end result in ghe medium there is nothing for them to do, hardly any niches.

YES you can have high numbers of bacteria, i doubt mycorrhizae at all, in a medium fed synthetic ferts but i doubt in the extreme it will be at all diverse or healthy in a classical sense.


From the "journal of Agronomy" for you.

"Results obtained showed that the organically treated plot recorded the maximum microbial population counts (fungal and bacterial) and microbial biomass carbon, followed by the inorganically treated plot and control. A significant variation in fungal population was found between control and treated plots (organic and inorganic) at the surface soil depth, whereas at the sub-surface soil depth it was between all the plots (Tukey’s test at p≤0.05). Organic plot exhibited a significant variation in bacterial population (both the soil depths) with the inorganically treated plot and control (Tukey’s test at p≤0.05). Organic carbon showed significant positive correlation with fungal and bacterial populations (p≤0.05). The application of organic fertilizers increased the organic carbon content of the soil and thereby increasing the microbial counts and microbial biomass carbon. The use of inorganic fertilizers resulted in low organic carbon content, microbial counts and microbial biomass carbon of the soil, although it increased the soil’s NPK level which could be explained by the rates of fertilizers."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/scialert.net/fulltext/amp.php?doi=ja.2010.102.110

You're probably covering your eyes and going lalalalalalala

Seriously google something and prove me wrong or show me a picture of your really healthy biome under a microscope. Microbes break down raw material and your arent feeding them that with synthetic ferts.

Its also far too easy to toxify the soil with some salt or other, because you are trying to play god, and have to flush it which also must massacre the mediums population. Instead of just growing org and letting the whole thing work like magic.. fuck loads of hormones generated by the unharmed microbiome..

 

[Applesauce]

This was your claim:

"Anything other than organic and they will die in no time.. synthetic nutes and medias dont provide anything for microorganisms to live on or in or sustain them nor does the plant care to sustain them through root exudates."

That is false. You are moving the goalposts. Microbes will feed and live alongside synthetic nutrients. Synthetic nutrients will not sterilize soil and benefits will be reaped by implementing beneficial microbes with non-organics feeding regimes.

I'm not sure why you insist that organic growers are the only ones gaining the perks of microbes. I grow indoors with coco + EWC and heavily implement myco and beneficial bacteria products alongside properly feeding synthetic salts and it works superbly.

 

[Lost in a SOG]

It does by enlarge kill them off long term and effect how the plant sustains the biodiversity in the medium..

I didnt say they sterilised the soil just they were rubbish for encouraging the microbes that will plummet in "no time". It would seem.

And in any case this conversation was about fungi and none organic ferts are notorious for harming them.

 

[Applesauce]

Interesting that you think that when I can cite the parameters of the discussion - your original quote was highly inaccurate. Tell me something I've said that is inaccurate. Your claim was that with anything other than organics, soil microbes will die "in no time" and that synthetic nutrient do not provide anything for microorganisms to live on. Both those claims are not true. A question for you - how much of a benefit is there in having +35% myco population in an organic system compared to a soluble salt feed or mixed system? For instance, my mix is teaming with bacteria and myco. What benefits am I missing out on?

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Can we get back on topic please? You can always start your own thread with this discussion and link it. I really don't mind if it goes elsewhere.

What Myco do you swear by and why. Thank you.

 

[Applesauce]

Can we get back on topic please? You can always start your own thread with this discussion and link it. I really don't mind if it goes elsewhere.

What Myco do you swear by and why. Thank you.

It's critical not to spread misinformation such as synthetic ferts are incompatible with beneficial microbes. I think that is pertinent to this thread.
To the point: I use photosynthesis plus + recharge with success. More troublesome than synthetic fertilizer would be finding products on the market that contain correctly stated innoculants.

 

[MedGrowerTom]

okay listen, synthetic nutes will KILL Mychorrhizae. It may not outright kill all of the bacteria, but it can and will hinder all that it could be. If using synthetic nutes, you should reapply bacteria once or twice a week if not more to keep the levels somewhat up as they will not reproduce nearly as well and constantly be shrinking, hence why you would need to keep adding more. With organics, they just keep populating and staying rocking though, and is much more diverse.

Keep in mind, we go about things different. Synth nutes you are adding your bennies, and they are trying to stay alive, and attempt to do what they are meant to. With organics, we are not feeding the plants. We are feeding the bennie and they then feed the plants. We feed the soil, its a whole different environment that we setup. In ours Mychorrhizae and bennies flourish, in yours the mycro will die off, and the bennies will struggle, but there will still be some, its just won't be nearly optimum.

 

[Lost in a SOG]

We are both right and we are both wrong i was wrong to imply that synthetic ferts blanket harm all microbes but i have clarified that already. They dont harm all microbes just some and for different reasons in different mediums depending on specific fertilizer and application and you certainly can have a healthy medium using synth nutes so long as you continue to innoculate, although my healthiest root biomes when i used bottled nutes was still with organic nutrients over synth. But badly applied synth nutes can easily do serious harm.

On the flip side many people say they are growing organic and they might be doing any old thing so im not saying everyone in one tribe saying they're organic is correct over another and i am sorry for suggesting such lines.

You havent conceded once on any of the primary evidence on the effects of sythetic fertilizer rather just blanket defended the entire concept.

My original statement was vague and easily taken out of context really. It was a statement of opinion on my behalf admittedely and i should have thrown an IMO in. As everything is an opinion anyway i think you will find and no hypothesis is ever proven in science merely currently significantly likely to be true so i suggest people keep taking other peoples comments with a pinch of salt like rational humans always have. It was a lazy comment on the relative difference between organic vs none organic practices as i understand it based on my understanding of biology and soil microbiology, which is a accurate and highly pertinent to this conversation about beneficial mycorrhizae.

"Evaluation of commercial inorganic and organic effects on arbuscular mycorrhizae formed by glumulus spp."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3iagW8vadz-HlPkAbCpcoO

"Phosphorus nutrition on mycorrhizal colonization, photosynthesis, growth and nutrient composition ofCitrus aurantium"

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02232937

Interestingly this study shows the synth P only suppresses the VAM colonisation to an extent for the first 9 weeks and not after week 26 but also shows that the VAM plus low org fert did as well as the P ferted..

Also to complicate things slightly more; different plants react differently to how they encourage microbes based on what synthetic fertilisers are used.

I hear where you are coming from but i feel you are being pretty pigheaded yourself tbh

 

[Cvh]

Below is a picture I found online and wanted to share. This picture shows one of the benefits of using Mychorrhizae in soil. In this picture you can see how Mychorrhizae funghi prolongs the root system of a plant. It's a symbiotic relation. This is only one example of the benefits, Myco funghi has many other benefits then only being an root extender.

The massive capacity of mycorrhizal fungi (white threads) to extend beyond the much more limited plant root system (brown).

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

It's critical not to spread misinformation such as synthetic ferts are incompatible with beneficial microbes. I think that is pertinent to this thread.

Unless you have some myco product which works "Better" with synthetic nutes, and this is why you use and swear by it, no the kills/does-not-kill discussion is not relevant.

Awesome photo CVH. Ty

 

[MedGrowerTom]

Hard to see in before/after pic, but I coat the outside of the dirt/roots at transplants with 3 tbs per gal, with some in the bottem of the pot as well. I normaly use a lot of other things, but this is it for this grow, cept for the microbes that happen from my ewc and guano/kelp teas

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Nice. I've been using the Rooter's from EarthJuice with basil and other herbs alongside the cannabis. They're all showing improvements in physical structure and quality. Neat stuff.

 

[hydrodreams]

Pretreating soil/substrate with Trichoderma

Pretreating soil/substrate with Trichoderma

Hello everybody

Interesting thread. I was hit by Fusarium, therefore I ended up trying to get more educated about all this.

I have heard that especially Trichoderma needs a certain time to really build a nice mycel in soil/substrate. Almost so much time until deep into flower and close to harvest with some strains of cannabis. So because of that, some people prepare the soil (add the trichoderma to it) a few weeks in advance to when they actually fill the buckets with it.

Is somebody here doing this as well?

Would be interesting to hear more about that idea....

 

[BillFarthing]

DIY How to Make Mycorrhizal Fungi Innoculant

 

[wvkindbud38]

This stuff I've been using called Mikrobs has been keeping my plants good and green. You just mix in water every 7-10 days. I'm in the process of flowering out some plants and getting a little more info on how it helps flowering and overall growth. I feel its worth a try, especially since my veg stuff is nice and green. The clones have loved it once I gave them a light dose there growing great!!!!

 

[Esme]

If your in the UK try a comapny called The nutrient company TNC - Some of there stuff I swear buy and it's a lot cheaper than most from the hydro shops.