Myco/Mychorrhizae Products: What Do YOU Swear By And Why?

[Douglas.Curtis]

Whatever glomus intraradicies source you use, I'd expect to see good results with it. The other myco and bacterial additions are what I'm curious about now. The GW Granular only has glomus intraradicies in it, but Orca was right there as well. In fact, the Orca pulled the highest weights of them all. Orca and the GW premium have very similar ingredients, and again they're from the same company. Orca is liquid and GW Premium is powdered.

Mammoth-P microbes focus on phosphorous, while some of these other microbes focus on nitrogen. Now I'm curious who's done similar (and more accurate) testing with these other microbes. Due to plant number restrictions, I'm not able to run hundreds of each plant to fruition. Nor do I have the resources to pay for even a small round of qualitative testing. lol

Have any of you tested 2 myco products, side by side with clones?

 

[spazspaz]

Switched to using Azos for propagation a year or two ago. No hormone anymore. Just the Azospirillum Brasilense and water.

Particularly impressed with root quality in clones, and later stages.

I’d like to run a cloning trial with other (non-hormone) stuff, and plain water as a control. Would love to see if using water alone would consistently yield an acceptable result in terms of time required for rooting, root quality, and overall success rate in propagation.

My biases include not wanting to use hormone, while thinking I need something more than water.

 

[Spinme]

Soil secrets LLC but honestly you are the best source of mycorizzea.
Buy some quality innoculum and a lot of grass seed
Dig shallow trench six in deep . Line with plastic.
Plant the grass seed and water in spores or liquid or whatever.
Then grow the grass.
It will die eventually causing the mold to die and spore out .... Boomnow you are the mold dude.
Peace
Trix

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Interesting. I was thinking about propagation recently as well, have you done this yet?

 

[djibra]

mykos from extremegardening..

great stuff..really big roots, fast development

 

[Lyfespan]

Key to Life microbes has my clones throwing roots out of the pot top and bottom, really like seeing the roots shooting out of the tops its crazy when VPD is on point.

btw when using microbes, i always dump in sugar too been really happy with 2 cups to 50 gallons, makes microbe herds explode

 

[DTOM420]

So, I'm on about my 3rd reading of Jeff Lowenfels' "Teaming with..." series and from what he (a leading expert on myco) says, Cannabis (as well as many typical garden vegetables, including tomatoes) only forms a relation ship with ONE species of Myco.....the Endo species most recently known as Rhizophagus Irregularis -a.k.a Rhizophagus Intraradices. I believe he said that most plants have a single strain of myco that they form a relationship with; however there may be some exceptions. Point is, here, that cannabis only works directly with Rhizophagus Irregularis. This is why Ron Wallace only includes the single species in his WallaceWOW product that's helped him win more giant pumpkin championships that any other person in history. Now, that said, I've heard some reasonable hypotheses that, even though a plant may only choose to work with a single species directly, the soil itself may be healthier and more well-rounded if there are other species within it. There is SO much science doesn't know about what's under our feet. In fact, we know far more about the heavens and the oceans than we know about the soil. It's certainly possible that there is an unknown connection between the species we should all be using and some of the other major species. Heck, some of the name changing of this species is the result of new discoveries about it that required a name-change to correct a previous incorrect name. I don't think that it hurts to have a few species of myco in your soil, to be safe; but the really important one is Rhiz. Irreg.

According to Jeff Lowenfels, Ron Wallace and every soil scientist I've ever heard speak about mycorrhizal fungi, Rhizophagus Irregularis (and I'm pretty sure all arbuscular mycorrhizae) is invisible EXCEPT under a microscope and even then REQUIRES a stain to be seen. In fact, one of the reason's for the name changes is that study of the fungi is so difficult BECAUSE it's so difficult to see. I just had to correct a hydro shop owner because he was telling customers that the white mycelium visible on the soil surface way a mycorrhizal fungi. Nope. If you can see it the only thing you know for sure is that it is NOT Rhizophagus Intraradices, or whatever name you choose to use.

Another topic that was raised earlier in this thread is the effectiveness of Arbuscular Mycorrhizae with chelated nutrients..... Now, I'm NOT a soil scientist, despite the books on my night table, but everything I've read or heard says that high levels of chelated phosphorous shuts down the mycorrhizal relationship. Whether it's a salt-based nutrient or an abundance of organically chelated phosphorous, the presence of the nutrient in a form the plant can slurp up without the help of the fungi will negate the need for the fungi. So, all the scientists warn that having a proper level (without an overabundance) of phosphorous is imperative to maintaining the mycorrhizal relationship. Think about it: Why would the plant trade with the fungi if you're essentially mainlining phosphorous into the plaint's veins? Liquid nutrients turn your plant into a junkie that's 100% dependent on you. Now, that's fine if you want to have your plant that dependent on you; but don't waste your money on a myco product, in that case. Mycorrhizae are part of a NATURAL growing situation and if you're growing chemically you're being sold something that's hocus-pocus for your plants. Just like Mammoth P - if you're feeding soluble phosphorous nutrient, what in the world do you think you're going to get by adding phosphorous solubilizing microbes? Lol! Now that's some Bro science sold by hydro stores!

Another interesting tidbit I've discovered in researching myco products is that ALL the mycorrhizal fungi sold in North America come from one of TWO sources; and apparently most of it (in the products gardeners use) comes from the same place. Apparently, it's very difficult to cultivate and these 2 companies have the science down. I talked to someone at the company recently and every product I've used, including Great White (and all the Plant Success, Inc products) is mixed up by them. You can have them mix up whatever you like for a custom product. Interesting, huh? They also verified what Ron Wallace said in an interview that I heard with him....that the freshness of the spores is KEY to success! One of the claims that he makes is that his spores are extremely fresh. I think he only works with a few retailers that he trusts will not have product sitting around for long periods of time; and it's why getting it directly from him, on his website, is probably a pretty good idea.

I've been using Ron's product since I ran out of the Great White I had and the difference is noticeable. I was not unhappy with the GW but the Wallace WOW has produced better results for me - more and healthier root balls and a more productive plant with organic growing techniques. However, I just ordered another myco product that I had run across but that was just too expensive for me in the large quantity it comes in. It's called MycoApply from Valent. Here's the label info: https://mycorrhizae.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/IAPS6-Ultrafine_Endo-AppSpec-Sheet-v2.3-Web.pdf It contains a guarantee of 71.7 propagules/g of each of 4 species, including our favorite that they call by the old name "Glomus Intraradices" I stumbled across it on www.BuildASoil.com where they repackage it into home gardener size packages: Ultrafine Endo I ordered it, first, for my family's garden and, second, for my cannabis soil. I do a lot of interplanting in our food garden and I'm starting to do that with some of my cannabis. In that case, a more broad spectrum of myco species may be a better option. Besides, I'm curious. It won't be anything scientific but I can satisfy my curiosity and see if I notice any difference between using it and the WallaceWOW single species. One significant difference I'm intrigued by is the ultra fine particle size of the MycoApply - it will be far more effective when mixed with water vs. a more granular version. Some myco products like Extreme Gardening Mykos is only meant for direct inoculation, which is certainly the preferred method of application. However, I do like to periodically add some myco to water and apply throughout the grow cycle. I know it's horribly inefficient but I'm stubborn that way; and both myco products are a REALLY good value, IMO. So, I can afford to splurge a little. Lol!

I use a product called Recharge for some of the other biology inputs (besides high quality worm castings and compost) but I also make Aerated Compost Teas (ACT) and I'm transitioning to Korean Natural Farming (KNF) because I feel like harvesting indigenous microorganisms (IMO) is a far more effective way to keep my microbe heard healthy. Turns out, microbes are very altitude sensitive; particularly to increases in altitude from their origins. To me, the argument that beneficial microbes harvested from your local environment and cultivated at home (not hard) will give me an army of warriors and workers that are adapted to my particular environment and our particular challenges, makes sense. More so than some microorganisms harvested hundreds or thousands of miles away. I'm sure there are loads of beneficials that are present in Alaska Humus that will not work in the deserts of Arizona or the swamps of Florida; and vice versa. I can't do it (harvest and breed) with the mycorrhizae but I sure can with other fungi, bacteria and archaea. Besides, KNF is WAY cheaper than any product I could buy!

Sorry for the long post but that's my 2 cents. Hope someone finds it helpful.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

So, I'm on about my 3rd reading of Jeff Lowenfels' "Teaming with..." series and from what he (a leading expert on myco) says, Cannabis (as well as many typical garden vegetables, including tomatoes) only forms a relation ship with ONE species of Myco.....the Endo species most recently known as Rhizophagus Irregularis -a.k.a Rhizophagus Intraradices.

The name of the myco changed in the scientific industry... In a podcast he talks about how his editor had to go through and change every instance of Rhizphagus Intraradices in his books to Glomus Intraradices.



Greatly appreciate the rest of the information. Great stuff

 

[DrLongbottom]

Micro-Bac

https://www.transgolf-inc.com/productlinkdocuments/Micro-BacSpecSheetkk.pdf

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Micro-Bac

https://www.transgolf-inc.com/productlinkdocuments/Micro-BacSpecSheetkk.pdf

That looks interesting, thanks! Myco, plus nitrogen and phosphorous microbes, plus humic and fulvic? Oh yeah!

According to Jeff Lowenfels, Ron Wallace and every soil scientist I've ever heard speak about mycorrhizal fungi, Rhizophagus Irregularis (and I'm pretty sure all arbuscular mycorrhizae) is invisible EXCEPT under a microscope and even then REQUIRES a stain to be seen. In fact, one of the reason's for the name changes is that study of the fungi is so difficult BECAUSE it's so difficult to see. I just had to correct a hydro shop owner because he was telling customers that the white mycelium visible on the soil surface way a mycorrhizal fungi. Nope. If you can see it the only thing you know for sure is that it is NOT Rhizophagus Intraradices, or whatever name you choose to use.

You're correct. The growth in the photo I showed is from being inoculated with Extreme Root Igniter, which apparently has something in the ingredient list which does grow visible myco in water. I stand corrected, thank you!

 

[KokoKush]

Wallace Organic Wonder, because I didn't grow up with plastic growstore ripoff weed that tastes like snake oils and cost hundreds of dollars a lb to grow, I grew up on a farm, with dirt and manure and wise decisions assisted by people who want to improve the world not just their pocketbooks.

Pros? It cheaper than hydro store bullshit and actually works

Cons? It still cost money

https://wallacewow.com/products/wallace-organic-wonder-best-mycorrhizal-fungi-for-sale-1-pound

Use after tilling and anytime I think the roots have formed something substantial. During transplant into the soil. Of course I'm new to the closet slave environment, I know most indoor people don't like dirt or endosymbiotic microbes or good tasting weed. But they do like patting themselves over the back after fulfilling another checkmark on the "I did it" sheet. So expect a bunch of recommendations for "Cannabis specific" garbage at 100$ an ounce.

I actually have a Wallace seed from his giant pumpkin in 2015! Still waiting for the right year to plant it. I'm still not sold on how effective the bottled myco. I just buy soil with it already in there.

 

[djibra]

mykos from extremegardening.. great stuff, the soil and the roots are really in love

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Awesome! I'm sure benefiting from using Myco and glad I finally have a little experience with them. Thanks again to all of you who have contributed. I've been a bit distracted lately and have not given some threads the time they deserve.

 

[gladysvjubb]

Pro-Mix with Mychorrhizae. Works great! Just add water.

 

[Rab.C]

i have just picked up xtreme gardening MYko's WP & Azos for my next grow in coco

 

[Cvh]

Keep in my mind guys that myco (and bacteria) products are to be used in combination with organic fertilisers in soil.
These products don't work (well) with synthetic fertilisers.

 

[Rab.C]

Keep in my mind guys that myco (and bacteria) products are to be used in combination with organic fertilisers in soil.
These products don't work (well) with synthetic fertilisers.

Thank's for the info Cvh i will get some organic coco feed if i can

 

[Applesauce]

Keep in my mind guys that myco (and bacteria) products are to be used in combination with organic fertilisers in soil.
These products don't work (well) with synthetic fertilisers.

I do not believe that. Is the "well" a hedge? Bacteria would be consuming the ferts. Can you provide a study that shows bacteria and myco products do not work (well) with synthetic fertilizer? Seems like propaganda.

 

[Lyfespan]

I do not believe that. Is the "well" a hedge? Bacteria would be consuming the ferts. Can you provide a study that shows bacteria and myco products do not work (well) with synthetic fertilizer? Seems like propaganda.

i use them together for different reasons and never seen anything but good things

 

[MedGrowerTom]

I do not believe that. Is the "well" a hedge? Bacteria would be consuming the ferts. Can you provide a study that shows bacteria and myco products do not work (well) with synthetic fertilizer? Seems like propaganda.

imo some of it may work a bit(maybe), but with organics is where it will shine. With organics and creating a living soil with bio-herds, that kind of goes out the window with salt based nutes, where you sacrifice quality for yield. my bio-herds live off my organic amendments, if I fed them salt based things I just wouldn't see a point imo. btw, when organics is done right, you can get damn nice grown speed and yield, but yeah imo if your going to be messing with mychorrhizae you should also be organic or just wasting time and money for something that will only be 'ehh'

edit

also here is a quick copy paste...

Mycorrhizae and synthetic nutrients
Bacteria strains are more durable than mycorrhizae when it comes to synthetic nutrients. Synthetic nutrients kill off mycorrhizae, so myco-only products are best used strictly in organic gardening. Bacteria, on the other hand, can withstand the concentrated nutrient levels found in synthetics.

from https://waytogrow.net/blogs/articles/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-beneficial-bacteria

typing "mycorrhizae and synthetic nutes" into search engine, the above was the first result. do a search for yourself if you don't believe the rest of us. myco and salt nutes don't mix.