Myco/Mychorrhizae Products: What Do YOU Swear By And Why?

[moses wellfleet]

The only real way to test is with a microscope and you need to have a trained eye.

Info comes from microbeman or KIS organics AKA Tad Hussey or the logical gardener or all three for that matter....LOL

Although a product may promise that a special ingredients, would you be willing to pay $150 if you knew all it contained was colored water? To help keep this from happening, the Oregon Department of Agriculture’s Fertilizer Program samples and analyzes products as part of its consumer protection role. Most recently, the program has looked at products that contain microorganisms– or at least claim to have them. The results of the analyses are less than encouraging.

“Some products have met the claim and have passed, but the percentage is very low,” says fertilizer enforcement specialist Toby Primbs.

ODA’s Fertilizer Program is the only one in the nation checking on ingredient claims made for microbiological products. The program began testing products claiming to contain beneficial bacteria and one type of beneficial fungi (Trichoderma) in 2013. Of the 51 products tested for bacteria, only nine met their guarantees. Of the 14 products tested for Trichoderma, none met their guarantees. Last year, the program began testing products with mycorrhizal fungi, which form partnerships with plant roots for mutual benefit. Of the 17 products tested, only three met the guarantees made on the product label.



“Many of these products are being sold at a premium price, yet nobody was looking to see if these microbes were actually in the product,” says ODA fertilizer specialist Matt Haynes. “We had anecdotal information that some products had nothing added despite what was said on the label. Once we started looking, more often than not, the companies making these products were not able to back their claims.”

As an example, a one-liter retail container of a fertilizer product that claimed to have both fungi and bacteria sold for $87.50, yet testing did not indicate the presence any of the microbes.


https://logicalgardener.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=773

If you have the time check it out the folks there are great and they have the most accurate info on the web.

I am pretty sure that is where Mikell got his Trichoderma info from.
He is a smart guy and hangs out there or at least he did.

Is that Rasputin?

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

The only real way to test is with a microscope and you need to have a trained eye.

You obviously have not studied mycology. It's ok, most people have not. You don't need a microscope, you only need to know how to culture myco.

Take your myco product and put some in a glass of water with a drop or two of molasses(Edit: Yes, you will need a plant or roots in the water as well). You should see white clouds in a day or two. No clouds? Your product is likely dead.

 

[Mikell]

Moses,

Me?

I don't think you meant that. He has a new handle but the name escapes me. I will poke around.

Well, I'm testing 6 different products and they all have expiration labels. They all grow amazing clouds of myco as well. So, even the frozen stuff turned out to be 'Very' alive.

Where do you shop? Or, where does your info come from?

Impossible. AMF does not grow in the absence of roots. A caveat, very few types of ectomycorrhizal fungi can grow on plate culture with a specific bacteria but it produces abnormal structure and forms stunted spores.

Please do not pass yourself off as some homebrew microbial student. That is a lowbar you do not even meet.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Impossible. AMF does not grow in the absence of roots. .

All it needs is plant, not root. Yes, I forgot to mention you should have a cutting of a plant in the water. Yes, you will be able to visibly see the results, no you will not need a microscope.

Please do not pass yourself off as some homebrew microbial student. That is a lowbar you do not even meet.

I have so many choice words for this, but your words speak volumes about you already.

 

[moses wellfleet]

Er no sorry my bad Rasputin goes by the name Logical farmer on Instagram, that is where I went wrong!

 

[Mikell]

All it needs is plant, not root. Yes, I forgot to mention you should have a cutting of a plant in the water. Yes, you will be able to visibly see the results, no you will not need a microscope.

I have so many choice words for this, but your words speak volumes about you already.

What is your source on this? Your claim is contrary to all research on AMF. Actual scientists routinely fail to grow AMF on plate culture but we are supposed to believe you have done it with water, molasses and a stem?

Save your drama and stick to the facts.

https://www.researchgate.net/post/D...orrhiza_inoculum_from_mycelium_and_spores/amp

can't grow let alone reproduce without the presence of a suitable & living plant root partners

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC123902/

For anyone looking to read deeper.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Test your own products yourself. Anyone who's used them has seen this before, it's nothing new and no lab needed. Can you tell what's growing? No, but you can definitely tell if your product is still active.

Successfully buying Myco products is just like buying any other product which is live or expires. This is not rocket science. Find a reputable product, and buy it from a reputable dealer who stores it properly.

As for G.I. being the only myco with an 'interesting' relationship with cannabis, one of the multi species myco products performed the best at the start, but is starting to lose it's edge over the others. The initial growth rates were measurably and visibly greater than the other products and control. Rather interesting so far. I'll post the whole thing up when it's all done and over with.

On a side note, Elite Root Ignitor contains the mossae discussed earlier. I'll have to look further and see if I can find more evidence on it being negative/positive.

 

[Mikell]

Bunkum. It isn't rocket science but it is biology and your opinion is at odds with actual biologists. Forgive us if we take the word of trained professionals over some dude on a forum that says otherwise sans evidence.

If you want to piss away money, by all means, piss away.

Here's one of many other points you missed.

Why would a plant trade precious carbon for nutrients that are readily available in the soil?

 

[Florere]

I absolutely love symbiosys from S.annie, a dutch growshop! They have real good fungae and bacteria!

That's just PHC

 

[BombBudPuffa]

No need for testing photosynthesis plus. It has a date on the bottle and when you crack it open you can smell the activity haha. I really encourage everyone to try it. You can get their lil sample kit for $15.

 

[Sunshineinabag]

We know having a mychorrhiza network in the soil will bring nutrients from areas the roots cannot reach. (runononsentence) So, as far as products you can buy off the shelf, what do YOU keep around constantly and always use? What does your experience strongly recommend?

Pros?

Cons?

How and when do you recommend it's application for maximum effectiveness?


Thank you for sharing your insight.

I would do as follows:[YOUTUBEIF]https://youtu.be/yCBJ0rXwILY[/YOUTUBEIF]


Follow Ashley lead in the video to get a couple diff wild types from good outdoor sources........then I like to use just a product or two from the local store that's a reg mycos to mix with the wild. You can really go off with this and start KNF as well!

 

[Guest]

I am surprised there is so much disagreement on what I presumed to be simple biology and science. I read some of the tests results and found it an eye opener and yet there is still much disagreement. I don’t have the background to take any side but my senses tell me that it’s not money I will spend without better proof.

 

[Mikell]

They're going to burn you at the stake if you question their idols.

 

[shaggyballs]

They're going to burn you at the stake if you question their idols.

I know right what gives?

I am surprised there is so much disagreement on what I presumed to be simple biology and science.

That is what I am trying to offer simple biology and science.
I even offerd test results to back up my statement.
Only to be told I don't know what I am talking about.

You obviously have not studied mycology. It's ok, most people have not. You don't need a microscope, you only need to know how to culture myco.
Well if you want to get sassy, you obviously have not studied mycorrhizae mycelium if you had you would know it is best viewed with a microscope in order to properly identify it.

You should see white clouds in a day or two. No clouds? Your product is likely dead.

White clouds??
How can you be sure it is mycorrhizae mycelium without a microscope?

Maybe it is a different type of fungi.

Unless of course you can tell the difference in fungi mycelium without a microscope?

 

[shaggyballs]

@Douglas.Curtis
May be you should instruct the Oregon Dept of Ag. on how to culture microbes they seem to be having trouble with it also.

Mycorrhizal Applications
Bacillus spp. label Guarantee 2,700 cfu/g Not Detected
Pseudomonas spp. label Guarantee 4,920,000 cfu/g Not Detected
Trichoderma spp. label Guarantee 1,640,000 cfu/g Not Detected

I think this was Advanced nutes.
As an example, a one-liter retail container of a fertilizer product that claimed to have both fungi and bacteria sold for $87.50, yet testing did not indicate the presence any of the microbes.

I am layin down facts with documented proof to back up my statements.
Good folks like Mikell come here and colaberate the statement being true.

If you folks want to turn your nose up at documentation from the oregon department of ag. then my work is done here.

Btw I bought a huge bag of myco applications and had poor to 0 results.
In fact I believe the carrier powder was smothering the roots.
This may have been my fault but I dusted all the roots before transplanting.
When the roots were dug up and checked after harvest it seemed they had grown very little if any if 8 weeks.
So that is my personal experience and the lab findings confirm what I had suspected to be true.

With that said maybe I should leave you folks alone to enjoy your $87.50 bottle of stuff that did not indicate the presence any of the microbes.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

I am surprised there is so much disagreement on what I presumed to be simple biology and science. I read some of the tests results and found it an eye opener and yet there is still much disagreement.

Interesting, isn't it? I was asked to do a side by side experiment and figured I'd ask what other people use. Having never used the stuff before, I'm finding it a rather interesting experiment.

Crazy discussion erupts. heh

I don’t have the background to take any side but my senses tell me that it’s not money I will spend without better proof.

I'll be sure to post it up the final results. End date is the 28th, no idea on how long it'll take to write up. I'll get there though. I'm already sold on using myco though, especially for sprouting seeds.

Sunshineinabag, link doesn't work?

 

[Guest]

Interesting, isn't it? I was asked to do a side by side experiment and figured I'd ask what other people use. Having never used the stuff before, I'm finding it a rather interesting experiment.

Crazy discussion erupts. heh

I'll be sure to post it up the final results. End date is the 28th, no idea on how long it'll take to write up. I'll get there though. I'm already sold on using myco though, especially for sprouting seeds.

Sunshineinabag, link doesn't work?

Its interesting how over the single digit number of years I have been a closet grower how much opinions vary on so many subjects dealing with growing cannabis. On so many topics from how to sprout all the way to I hate or love Boveda packs. And every topic in between. I have learned so much from reading these kind of discussions but for me it all comes down to the ultimate KISS thing. I have better results that way. But if I were trying to make a living or supplement my income Im sure Id be more opinionated.

 

[f-e]

Stories from the growshop:

A brand was removed after testing showed a shift from the original mix, towards something found under the rim.


In other news, fusarium is also bred in tanks. Scraped out and flattened into cakes sold as a vegetarian meat substitute. Images on the product give the idea it's made from baby mushrooms. It's just mushy fungus though..

Vegetarian sausage? NO! STOP IT!

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Stewart169, bang on.

f-e, that's gross! lol, both the brand quality and the veggie meat. LOL

Thank you.

 

[Mikell]

Oh I see, he is either ignoring us or true to form, he is blocking people with contrary opinions.

Interesting, isn't it? I was asked to do a side by side experiment and figured I'd ask what other people use. Having never used the stuff before, I'm finding it a rather interesting experiment.

Crazy discussion erupts. heh

I'll be sure to post it up the final results. End date is the 28th, no idea on how long it'll take to write up. I'll get there though. I'm already sold on using myco though, especially for sprouting seeds.

Sunshineinabag, link doesn't work?

Bunkum broscience methods aside, you can test by cleaning and staining the root mass. It is a widely accepted technique (in the academic world) and simple enough for a studious home grower to do.

But you already knew that, right? Must have slipped your mind.