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Myco/Mychorrhizae Products: What Do YOU Swear By And Why?
- Thread starter Douglas.Curtis
- Start date
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Sure.
The only known mycorrhizae which creates a symbiotic relationship with cannabis is Glomus Intraradices, or Rhizophagus Intraradices, or Glomus Mossae(sp?)? There was a big naming change a short while back and I see a lot of confusion, including my own. lol
Sure.
The only known mycorrhizae which creates a symbiotic relationship with cannabis is Glomus Intraradices. Up until recently it was called Rhizophagus Intraradices.
Resource?
Sure.
The only known mycorrhizae which creates a symbiotic relationship with cannabis is Glomus Intraradices. Up until recently it was called Rhizophagus Intraradices.
Thats the mycorrhizae that xtreme gardening uses in mykos. I knew there was something special about this stuff
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Shaping Fire Podcast #21
Teaming with Microbes and Fungi for Thriving Cannabis with Jeff Lowenfels
Jeff lays it down pretty well. He also mentions his editor having to change every instance of Mossae(sp?) in his books, and change it out with Glomus.
(Edit: Had this wrong, my apologies)Not sure if the podcast/youtube times match up to the download, but the juicy bit is at 40:50.
(edit: ok, so he doesn't actually get to the info until 44:50. lol)
How I understand it there is according to current scientific research indeed only one mycorrhizae that creates an interesting symbiotic relationship with Cannabis: Glomus Intraradices (aka Rhizophagus Intraradices).
There are several other mycorrhizae which create a symbiotic relationship, but current research shows that these aren't all interesting and might even be detrimental.
Also don't confuse endophytes with endomycorrhizae.
Here is a link to an interesting article
https://groweriq.ca/2018/11/29/living-soil-improves-cannabis-growth/
And a link to the scientific research that is mentionned in the above article about Glomus Mosseae. Which shows that G. Mosseae might be detrimental for Cannabis.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0045653504009634
This doesn't proof that only Glomus Intraradices (aka Rhizophagus Intraradices) is the only interesting mycorrhizae. Maybe future research shows that more mycorrhizae form an interesting symbiotic relationship with Cannabis. And maybe that future research shows that G. Mosseae might be usefull for the uptake of micronutrients.
Edit: Glomus Intraradices is indeed the old name.
Recent molecular analysis of Ribosomal DNA suggested that Glomus Intraradices is not in fact in the genus Glomus at all, and should be renamed Rhizophagus Intraradices.
There are several other mycorrhizae which create a symbiotic relationship, but current research shows that these aren't all interesting and might even be detrimental.
Also don't confuse endophytes with endomycorrhizae.
Here is a link to an interesting article
https://groweriq.ca/2018/11/29/living-soil-improves-cannabis-growth/
And a link to the scientific research that is mentionned in the above article about Glomus Mosseae. Which shows that G. Mosseae might be detrimental for Cannabis.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0045653504009634
This doesn't proof that only Glomus Intraradices (aka Rhizophagus Intraradices) is the only interesting mycorrhizae. Maybe future research shows that more mycorrhizae form an interesting symbiotic relationship with Cannabis. And maybe that future research shows that G. Mosseae might be usefull for the uptake of micronutrients.
Edit: Glomus Intraradices is indeed the old name.
Recent molecular analysis of Ribosomal DNA suggested that Glomus Intraradices is not in fact in the genus Glomus at all, and should be renamed Rhizophagus Intraradices.
Shaping Fire Podcast #21
Teaming with Microbes and Fungi for Thriving Cannabis with Jeff Lowenfels
Jeff lays it down pretty well. He also mentions his editor having to change every instance of Mossae(sp?) in his books, and change it out with Glomus.
Not sure if the podcast/youtube times match up to the download, but the juicy bit is at 40:50.
Interesting but not sure I buy it. Mosseae and Intraradices are 2 different things and mosseae hasn't been upgraded to Intraradices that I've seen. Glomus Intraradices was upgraded to Rhizophagus irregularis though. Should be easy enough to prove or disprove. Give one clone Intraradices and another myco without it and see if there's a boost in root growth.
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Cvh has the answer, the mention of mosseae was a mistake by Jeff or I heard him wrong.. Thank you Cvh for clearing that up.
Very interesting discussion. You often see soil testing mentioned as part of the living soil philosophy. But how many are testing for the presence of these beneficial mycorrhizae, which is probably as important as the presence of elements that provide the nutrients?
Cvh has the answer, the mention of mosseae was a mistake by Jeff or I heard him wrong.. Thank you Cvh for clearing that up.
Ah ok. Maybe he just made a mistake. Anyone know of a myco product without Intraradices?
G
Guest
My VAM has expired and Im looking to buy a product. The Plant Revolution comes in a granular and soluble version. Anyone have any opinions about the results of either? I would think the soluble would be a preferred delivery method but I have no experience to prove that.
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
I've noticed the granular versions have a much longer shelf life than liquid. It may be a consideration, depending on your circumstances.
I've used the more common ones. It's been awhile ago but i used the granular Plant Success indoors with great results. I also used the Great White indoors and kinda preferred the Plant Success, but didn't see much difference. Also this past outdoor season used Mykos in all my outdoor containers. You don't really notice alot of difference.....but if you notice any difference that's good I think 100% you use it. Of all the products I mention....Great White, Mykos, Plant Success, I like the Plant Success better myself.
Pros
Long story short.....your plants look better when using. we've read about the science of mycorrihizea and know what it does.
Cons
yes it's another cost on your grow,
more to add to your mix. besides cost im not sure the cons
Pros
Long story short.....your plants look better when using. we've read about the science of mycorrihizea and know what it does.
Cons
yes it's another cost on your grow,
more to add to your mix. besides cost im not sure the cons
G
Guest
Thanks. Buying directly from the mfg I can just get the 4 oz bags. I don’t use or need a large quantity growing only a few plants per cycle. One of each should cover me.
Fun fact
These products have been found to be old and mostly if not totally dead.
These products have been found to be old and mostly if not totally dead.
I buy bales of Pro-Mix with mycorrhizae. It seems to work well.
If I bothered I'd pick the one with the most Trichoderma as it's the least snake oily product in the microbe supplement industry.
1. Rhizosphere conditions determine what flourishes and what doesn't.
2. One of the few studies of inocculants showed the majority are inert. I see one or two mentioned here.
3. Look up any (noncommercial) resource for mycorrhizal fungi and try to find the part that mentions any benefit in well watered high nutrient soil. Bonus points for digging deeper to discover if they even associate with roots when nutrients are abundant (re: why would the roots exchange carbon for resources that are readily available).
1. Rhizosphere conditions determine what flourishes and what doesn't.
2. One of the few studies of inocculants showed the majority are inert. I see one or two mentioned here.
3. Look up any (noncommercial) resource for mycorrhizal fungi and try to find the part that mentions any benefit in well watered high nutrient soil. Bonus points for digging deeper to discover if they even associate with roots when nutrients are abundant (re: why would the roots exchange carbon for resources that are readily available).
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Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Well, I'm testing 6 different products and they all have expiration labels. They all grow amazing clouds of myco as well. So, even the frozen stuff turned out to be 'Very' alive.
Where do you shop? Or, where does your info come from?
The only real way to test is with a microscope and you need to have a trained eye.
Info comes from microbeman or KIS organics AKA Tad Hussey or the logical gardener or all three for that matter....LOL
Although a product may promise special ingredients, would you be willing to pay $150 if you knew all it contained was colored water? To help keep this from happening, the Oregon Department of Agriculture’s Fertilizer Program samples and analyzes products as part of its consumer protection role. Most recently, the program has looked at products that contain microorganisms– or at least claim to have them. The results of the analyses are less than encouraging.
“Some products have met the claim and have passed, but the percentage is very low,” says fertilizer enforcement specialist Toby Primbs.
ODA’s Fertilizer Program is the only one in the nation checking on ingredient claims made for microbiological products. The program began testing products claiming to contain beneficial bacteria and one type of beneficial fungi (Trichoderma) in 2013. Of the 51 products tested for bacteria, only nine met their guarantees. Of the 14 products tested for Trichoderma, none met their guarantees. Last year, the program began testing products with mycorrhizal fungi, which form partnerships with plant roots for mutual benefit. Of the 17 products tested, only three met the guarantees made on the product label.
“Many of these products are being sold at a premium price, yet nobody was looking to see if these microbes were actually in the product,” says ODA fertilizer specialist Matt Haynes. “We had anecdotal information that some products had nothing added despite what was said on the label. Once we started looking, more often than not, the companies making these products were not able to back their claims.”
As an example, a one-liter retail container of a fertilizer product that claimed to have both fungi and bacteria sold for $87.50, yet testing did not indicate the presence any of the microbes.
https://logicalgardener.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=773
If you have the time check it out the folks there are great and they have the most accurate info on the web.
I am pretty sure that is where Mikell got his Trichoderma info from.
He is a smart guy and hangs out there or at least he did.
