Ever try Liquid Karma? I know you are all about organics and what not. Im pretty sure that stuff is organic?
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MotherLode Gardens 2016
- Thread starter Shcrews
- Start date
CentralValley05
Member
Slow nickel,
How much gypsum do you recommend to mix into soil? A cup per 100 gal, 1/2 cup? Also would you recommend top dressing, or mixing first in a water tank and watering it in?
How much gypsum do you recommend to mix into soil? A cup per 100 gal, 1/2 cup? Also would you recommend top dressing, or mixing first in a water tank and watering it in?
Central,
The medium mixes are all over the place, so far, the M3 soil analysis is showing us where we need to go, but so far, most are scared to try. Some folk have 72 to 74% Ca and are doing excellent, yet, calcium issues, which as you can see in my posts, also relate to over watering.
The CEC and the distributions have to dial this in. The problem is that folks are mixing in so much stuff that is in carbonate form, that the calcium numbers don't make sense, especially when one keeps seeing calcium deficiency over and over. Boron is a big issue too. Then the monster question is what lab do you trust?
In real life, I am a real farmer (limes and avocados), just tip toeing around and examining numbers for some folk. Running numbers for you at 85% Ca are easy and you should try 50%, 100% and 150% of what I calculate, but you need to run soil analysis that I believe in. So far, Spectrum is the only one that will test the way I want, with the right shake times and the ammonium acetate at a pH of 8.2
The golf course guys out west figured this problem of calcium in carbonate form several years back, they came up with the ammonium acetate at 8.2 pH concept and it works super well. We run this and M3. Results are excellent.
Do you have a soil analysis?
One last point, think calcium(s). There is carbonate, normally mixed in well as their mobility in the soil is minimal. Gypsum, very mobile in the soil. Nitrate, gluconate, lactate and citrate, all mobile.
Dosis of gypsum typically can run from 1 to 10 ton/acre. I have a gross dislike for guessing...
The medium mixes are all over the place, so far, the M3 soil analysis is showing us where we need to go, but so far, most are scared to try. Some folk have 72 to 74% Ca and are doing excellent, yet, calcium issues, which as you can see in my posts, also relate to over watering.
The CEC and the distributions have to dial this in. The problem is that folks are mixing in so much stuff that is in carbonate form, that the calcium numbers don't make sense, especially when one keeps seeing calcium deficiency over and over. Boron is a big issue too. Then the monster question is what lab do you trust?
In real life, I am a real farmer (limes and avocados), just tip toeing around and examining numbers for some folk. Running numbers for you at 85% Ca are easy and you should try 50%, 100% and 150% of what I calculate, but you need to run soil analysis that I believe in. So far, Spectrum is the only one that will test the way I want, with the right shake times and the ammonium acetate at a pH of 8.2
The golf course guys out west figured this problem of calcium in carbonate form several years back, they came up with the ammonium acetate at 8.2 pH concept and it works super well. We run this and M3. Results are excellent.
Do you have a soil analysis?
One last point, think calcium(s). There is carbonate, normally mixed in well as their mobility in the soil is minimal. Gypsum, very mobile in the soil. Nitrate, gluconate, lactate and citrate, all mobile.
Dosis of gypsum typically can run from 1 to 10 ton/acre. I have a gross dislike for guessing...
Glad to hear everything is looking good. Sounds like it was meant to be, your boy chopping up the fitting on the water line in turn stopping the watering. It's a sign. Seems like these types of things happen when the universe is trying to show or tell us something. Let them dig for water, roots get lazy when the supply is on tap. I'm sure you know this but a reminder never hurts. The bushes look great. Happy growing.
this is controversial because guys like BYF (and i think Tom Hill) water a lot and they grow monsters
Do they water away from the stalk? I think the same effect can be had if one waters nearer the edge of the hole/pot/mound. The water is available, but the roots need to grow out in order to get to it.
Sounds like lots of water to me ! That doesn't mean it is though ! My style is different, But they are in very well amended ground, No mounds, SO the size of mine show the results Started on april 13 this yr & sky lotus is massive at 12 ft, I had to finely top it a week ago! & the GDP x Hashplant. Is crazy big & wide 10 ft tall & over 10 wide, My water is like 4 hrs on approx every 5 days , & at 200-300 gal per hr, They are getting like 20 gallons ea per day, But i only water 4-5 days apart--then saturate!
not sure about the exact specifics but i think when you're watering a lot everything gets saturated even if the irrigation lines are spaced far away from the stalk. and with mounds the water naturally spreads out
maybe but probably not. i havent seen any roots. native soil is typical sierra foothills red dirt/clay and rocks. I did amend all the mounds with a pound of gypsum each before planting, but there was no way to amend the earth under the mounds
Sh,
In an ideal world, unknown to farmers, one would have taken some samples of the topsoil and subsoil, knowing that one day, a root will be knocking.
What does that mean? Open up that soil so it will drain. Calculate your favorite calcium % and nail it one time, maybe even some P, scratch it in with a bit of organic material as your premound preparation.
This doesn't mean bringing in heavy equipment and digging (which may not be a bad idea), just scratching in a realistic dosis of gypsum and carbonate along with your P source, just in case.
In an ideal world, unknown to farmers, one would have taken some samples of the topsoil and subsoil, knowing that one day, a root will be knocking.
What does that mean? Open up that soil so it will drain. Calculate your favorite calcium % and nail it one time, maybe even some P, scratch it in with a bit of organic material as your premound preparation.
This doesn't mean bringing in heavy equipment and digging (which may not be a bad idea), just scratching in a realistic dosis of gypsum and carbonate along with your P source, just in case.
plantingplants
Active member
Orechron, could you speak to how roots react when encountering poor soil? Slownickel said they become a sink but I don't understand why.
Is it better to guard roots from poor soil than give them the space? I put my good soil on top of my shitty soil because I figured it would be a better 'ground' than the clay and wouldn't hurt.
Is it better to guard roots from poor soil than give them the space? I put my good soil on top of my shitty soil because I figured it would be a better 'ground' than the clay and wouldn't hurt.
she meant my incredible, sorry brobro
Goddamnitmumble
Plantingplants, maybe what slownickel is referring to is that if a root enters soil that has few nutrients it would be using nutrients from other more fertile areas of the root zone to build those new roots. I don't know if that's what actually happens, but he's been growing food trees in soils that are less fertile than the rich medias we often use, planting into mounds and not smart pots, and has more experience.
I have seen canna trees hit the wall so to speak. I used to build rows of native soil that I would hand rake into long, elevated trapezoids, but I couldn't amend what was below them. Plants would be looking great in July (18+ brix, waxy looking leaves) then brix would drop mid bloom, pm would show up and I'd get some small colonies of mites here and there. I know now that the subsoil lacked Ca and K and all micros and it cost me a great deal. Later years I built the mounds higher and had much better seasons.
I have seen canna trees hit the wall so to speak. I used to build rows of native soil that I would hand rake into long, elevated trapezoids, but I couldn't amend what was below them. Plants would be looking great in July (18+ brix, waxy looking leaves) then brix would drop mid bloom, pm would show up and I'd get some small colonies of mites here and there. I know now that the subsoil lacked Ca and K and all micros and it cost me a great deal. Later years I built the mounds higher and had much better seasons.
This issue is not so much these roots being a sink for nutrients and hormones, what will be missing is balance. So you did all that work and investment to achieve balance and then the roots go into a terribly unbalanced soil? How do you thing they will react? Happy ??? I don't think so.
Firstly, it there is clay, when you irrigate, those roots will anaerobic (no air), get root rots, fusarium, you name it. If that doesn't get you chances are all that iron and aluminum will, depending where you are.
What does it costs to throw a couple of kilos of gypsum into the bottom of a hole?
Firstly, it there is clay, when you irrigate, those roots will anaerobic (no air), get root rots, fusarium, you name it. If that doesn't get you chances are all that iron and aluminum will, depending where you are.
What does it costs to throw a couple of kilos of gypsum into the bottom of a hole?
plantingplants
Active member
Ok. I would have figured roots anywhere would be better than dead or no roots. I still don't get why, if a plant has plenty of nutrients in the top layer, It will get screwed up by a layer underneath with no nutrients. What happens when roots can't uptake anything (when there isn't anything there) and why is it bad?
The clay here drains fine and plenty of people use clay holes with no problem. I colonized them with rootshield plus anyway which is a patented strain of trichoderma that prevents fusarium and pythium, etc.
The clay here drains fine and plenty of people use clay holes with no problem. I colonized them with rootshield plus anyway which is a patented strain of trichoderma that prevents fusarium and pythium, etc.
You're all set then!
