Mosaic Virus in Cannabis pics

[Wandering Roman]

In the interest of keeping a sharp focus on this virus only in this thread,so as to be a reference and pinned for the members of this site,,I'll also ask to not stray too far from subject.

OJO's pics clearly display a chlorophyll mottling which is also another symptom,,this is not
a symptom nor sign in any other case other than a mosaic virus....end of story.

That is not one of DJ's inherent wrinkling,and naturally occuring traits in blueberry line.
While it's true 1 in 5 will be an extreme mutant in his line and will look eerily close to a
mosaic virus in deep distress ,,,,it is indeed different altogether.

This mottling of green chlorophyll where 1 single leaf will be segregated and be yellow or light green and then a healthy dark green is an indicator of the protein mutating at a cellular level and altering chlorophyll production.


I'd take those plants out side and dig a 3' hole in the earth and plant em...

otherwise burn em up!

 

[OjoRojo420]

I mentioned the Blueberry factor since I also have a White Widow x Bubblegum (Sativa Dominant) that has been in my room prior to the arrival of these other SKxBB and NLxBB strains.

This WW x Bubblegum plant has not shown any sign of viral problems for close to 2 years (I've been working with the others in the same room).

This made me rationalize for long that it was just another "high maintenance" factor from the Blueberry dominant plants I tend to favor.

So far plants are coming out of the "herpes" episode and will be flowered as soon as back to "normal".

But I need NEW stock ASAP

 

[BrianBadonde]

In the interest of keeping a sharp focus on this virus only in this thread,so as to be a reference and pinned for the members of this site,,I'll also ask to not stray too far from subject.

OJO's pics clearly display a chlorophyll mottling which is also another symptom,,this is not
a symptom nor sign in any other case other than a mosaic virus....end of story.

That is not one of DJ's inherent wrinkling,and naturally occuring traits in blueberry line.
While it's true 1 in 5 will be an extreme mutant in his line and will look eerily close to a
mosaic virus in deep distress ,,,,it is indeed different altogether.

This mottling of green chlorophyll where 1 single leaf will be segregated and be yellow or light green and then a healthy dark green is an indicator of the protein mutating at a cellular level and altering chlorophyll production.


I'd take those plants out side and dig a 3' hole in the earth and plant em...

otherwise burn em up!

In your experiance with regards to OPT related strains ie Blueberry would it be more a likely a result of Colc treatment we are seeing?

 

[Wandering Roman]

In your experiance with regards to OPT related strains ie Blueberry would it be more a likely a result of Colc treatment we are seeing?

That would be affirmative sir..

I have grown out and bred a multitude of DJ's Blue line from his old
DP gear,,F13,Grape Krush,True Blue berry....


I have seen many mutants in many forms,,,,some so bad that it just begged to be culled,,,but they all grew out of it and the clones never displayed this again..


It may be easy for the layman to mistake these for a virus if they are not informed ahead of time,,and are aware of this virus..

This is simply DJ's legacy ,,,,some great plants if you dig into the generations for the proper phenos,many mutations..

But his gear is clean of the virus for certain..

 

[BrianBadonde]

That would be affirmative sir..

I have grown out and bred a multitude of DJ's Blue line from his old
DP gear,,F13,Grape Krush,True Blue berry....


I have seen many mutants in many forms,,,,some so bad that it just begged to be culled,,,but they all grew out of it and the clones never displayed this again..


It may be easy for the layman to mistake these for a virus if they are not informed ahead of time,,and are aware of this virus..

This is simply DJ's legacy ,,,,some great plants if you dig into the generations for the proper phenos,many mutations..

But his gear is clean of the virus for certain..

thanks thats my opinion too and experiance, still it doesn't stop people telling me I'm wrong.

 

[jim_browsky]

Thanks for starting this thread, I am interested to see others' thoughts on this.

While I agree that TMV is indeed a growing problem, I'm not sure that
culling and sterilization is 100% necessary. I think that it can be
controlled to a point where it is virtually non existent. Having your
area dialed in, you are not going to see this affect your plants.
Should they be culled in a perfect world, yes. But not everyone
has endless genetics or stock to keep growing out. Some may have one
clone they got from a buddy with no hopes of more down the line.

I first noticed the leaf hooking/mottling on a Mazar-i-sharif about
two years ago. I didn't think much of it because it didn't seem to
affect the yield or quality and it is only a few leaves on several
tables. I would however notice the popcorn buds to occasionally
have a slight powdery sheen, not unlike the feeling of mold spores
from handling botrytis infected herb. Well here it is two years later
and it is still present, no difference in yields or quality. I have about
eight to ten strains normally and some are affected, some are not.


The ones that are infected in my garden:
MIS
killer queen
killer chem
chemdog bx2
c99

The ones that are not infected in my garden:
SSSDH two phenos
707 HB
Bogglegum two phenos
Chemdog Sour D
Roadrunner autoflower
Arcata trainwreck

These are all from seed except for the MIS and wreck.

I also never see this until flowering and not every round either, I
can go an entire harvest and not see one leaf mutation. I know if I
would have culled that MIS two years ago, I would still be missing
out.


Here is some info on the use of aspirin to help fight viruses in plants from Cornell University.
I'm sure someone else has done this here although with a quick site:search of icmag I didn't come up with much. Might as well give it a shot.

Here are some quotes from a link started here by ItsGrowTime.

i'l try and do the translation as correct as i can.....


On the youngest leaves you'll find yellow/green circled shape spots,cirlcle shaped figures and waving lines.
Older leaves shows yellow mozaïk like figures.Leaves will yellow in a short time,sometimes this happens when sympthoms dont show.







Spreading

A infection of mozaïkvirus occeurs mostly in the summer or in the fall,when winged bugs like leave louse appear.
Leave louse transmit the virus verry easy.While working in the garden men can transmit in some small occaisions.Spreading tru seed or soil is not possible.
The virus has many carryers,among them are salad and garden weeds,in these the virus can survive,the virus also acceurs in other^plants like tobaccoplants,tomatoes,cucumbers,ect..crosscontamination is possible..(cannabis infecting tomato and vise versa)
The moment the plant has been infected there is no cure for it....clones of this plant will also carry this virus..


Effects on the plant

The effect on the plant are verry divers,the plant will never be able 2 use its full potential because the state of the leave wont permit fotosynthese as good as on a healty leave.
The virus exists out of small rods of about 700 nanometer long.the virus belong 2 the group of potyvirusses.the plant will never be a topper,1 thing is surten the plant will show problems and will stay a back of any other.

Komkommer met Mozaiekvirus

Tomaat met Mozaiekvirus[/left]


How 2 battle it..
As written before there is no cure for this virus?once the plant has it its not removeable.Inviromentfactors are importand though.A plant that has a stable surroundingstemperatur of 21C°+ wont have as much problem as other way around..so keeping the Temp above 21C° is a must


i'll add second part in a few and in a other post...

Prevention
First of all you need 2 provide a clean room,be shure and try 2 repel all bugs inside a room.
And always wash your hands before toutching the plants....you should have done it by now...
if your clonefarmer's plants carry this virus is there 99% chance you'll also get it in your room.in princible you already can see i on a clone when the plant has the infection...so watch out carefully.if a plant shows some odd charicaristics just refuse and go somewhere else.

you can ofcaurse take some precautions and take cloningmatters into your own hands...next 2 that growing from seeds will lower the threath of you getting it in the room.

Will it Cost Me
Will it cost me?...the answer 2 this is YES it will cost ya..because your plant has a virus ,does't make as much leave ,slows the fotosynthese ect...this plant wont be able 2 produce as much as a healthy 1.
if you keep it above 21C° damage will be smaller but for outside plants they will have more damage bacause our country has not as high temps over 21C° or higher.

History of the tobaccovirus (in short ...TMV)
TMW is the first virus that has been proven.The existance of the virus is confirmed in 1889,when a researcher began 2 sterillise the soil with a infected plant in it,after the sterillisation plants still became sick in that same soil.bacteria namely exist out of eggwhite that begins 2 harden when if reaches 100C°+...Because of this they came 2 the conclusion that bacteria where not the cause of this sickness.@ that time they probably did't know it woz a virus ...they just knew it woz't bacteria becoz of the sterillisation.

Foto

In 1946 the nobelprize woz awarde for chemestry...for the person that made a virus visible for the first time,this woz TMV..(see pic)
Because of the many quantities of the viruses and because it woz't dangerous 2 humans or animals this virus woz ideal for further examination for virusses.

Biolegie of TMV
biologistes try to marke everything is diffrent catagories,they also try 2 catagories these virusses in separate catagories.All forms of tobaccovirus fall under the name Potyvirusses...this catagorie is made on base of sympthoms and the presents of the virus.
The presents of the virus,only in plants and the primearie consecuence is grow inhibited by the cells of the plant,this only goes for Potyvirusses.

TMV is a ssRNA virus,that means a sigle strain RNA virus.with its buildingblocks documented on 1 single RNA strain.

it all get verry complicated now....in slowmotion....you know DNA right?that big database in stairform,RNA is a small copie of a piece of DNA that transforms the information into a assingment for the cell...(in short that is)

When a RNA virus penetrates the cell it immediatly starts 2 reproduce new viruses in the cell,this allows the cell 2 be infected.the spreading of the virus does not depend on cellformation.
Cells will be buisy producing viruses and thus wont be procucing as much cells and slow down its cell formation in its infected sections.so in our case veg and flower will quickly show some shortages.

Other shapes
the virus does have some brothers,they all causes there own sympthoms.
Its not only the TMV virus we have trouble with...other forms do occour with our girls...downhere other forms and other outer charicaristics are written...

1.Tobacco mosaic virus - 151, Tobamo ->our best know species,bended/curld leaves and obvious pattern on the leaves.....ime this kind shows more yellow on the leaves

2.Tobacco leaf curl virus-Begomo (Geminiviridae) -> does't show discolorments only curld/bended leaves because of lesser celldevelopment in the plant.

3.Tobacco mild green mosaic virus - 351, Tobamo -> causes spots on leaves leaves slightly curld and not so obvious mozaïk patterns.


OMFG i made it ...i'l add some of my own exp on this matter....i've had the pleaseaure of seeing 2 kinds of this virus...the Tobacco mozaik virus and the mild green mozaik virus ....well atleast i think so... i do have the proof on this matter....
i have 1 now in the garden ..seperate ofcause...take a look...

i also wanne add that i think its transferable tru handling diffrent plants...but that i'm not shure of...
LMAO this sounds like Si-Fi and i hope i did't make you scared or something.....just sharing my thoughts and opinions...

well, personaly, I don't think it's a virus..

I think that most likely it's a slight 'chimera' mutation, that is amplified under stressed conditions, or shortages of mg or other micros..


I've seen this happen time again on BB crosses, and also on other various hybrids.. I've seen it show in flower on a clone then not show the next time i flower the same clone, when i've learned to dial the clone in a bit better..


I don't think it's anything to worry about, it doesn't affect the plant much at all besides making 1-2 leaves about 10-50% less efficient, but I've never seen it make a difference in bud size comparing colas with and without the issue on the same plant..

so plants will do it regardless, when the mutation is strong.. i've seen the curling on brand new seed plants, 1 plant of 10 seeds, etc..


I'm not discounting the fact that cannabis can pick up viruses, they most definately can..

But I do believe viruses will cause much more severe symptoms, not jus a few curly and discoloured leaves.. If IGT was having other issues like slow veg growth, slow or no rooting for clones, low flower production, or disfigured flowers, then I'd be more likely to believe it was due to a virus..


good luck, but i wouldn't worry about it..

And here are some from this thread.

Virus can be passed on through seed, according to some of the research done on plant viruses. Viruses can also be dormant or non-symptomatic in perfectly healthy individuals, but then manifest when the organism's health is affected by another factor, and then go away when ideal health is once again achieved. The most common example of this is the cold sore... a herpes virus which never goes away, but the symptoms only manifest when the person's health is affected by something else.

Not sure of the cause of the variegation in the Chem, but know for sure that it will not show up much at all in a dialed in garden.

Your right littlebud. don't anyone get all freaked out and start culling shit. Virus's can be tricky shit to deal with. But the segragation of anything new is of the upmost importance when it comes to shit that spreads like this. Anyone with even a small interest in breeding or those who value there home stock should isolate and test new comers before introducing them to the home stock for breeding purposes. A virus can range from a cold soar on ur lip, a hook leaf here and there in plants, to death.

15 years ago there was an viral outbreak with a pet species I had interest in. Many breeders who dealt with those animals got scared of what some other breeders were dealing with with sick animals (what was believed to be the plague to the species) etc., and many rushed to judgement of their now viral-positive animals, and ended up killing off whole breeding colonies to try and escape it. 3 years later the virus was found to be in about 90% of the species, and traced all the way back to wild populations. lots of life lost for nothing. In the end the animals who carried the virus only exhibited symptoms in times of stress, or when kept improperly in captivety. Like in overcrowded breeding facilities where one animal is stacked upon another do to large numbers and lack of space. Add in the factors of heat, water, and humidity and u got a Perfect breeding ground for virus, bacteria, and fungi to spread.

It may be very similar to this.. babies show it, stressed plants show it, old clones which are weakeing may show it even more etc. But For the most part the large percentage will go on and show no symptoms, or only show them during stressful conditions. Kinda like head said with herpes.. which is why creating seeds is so important to the longevity of these elite strain ASAP.... before they become introduced to viruses being passed around from room to room to possible infected room like cheap hookers..

Say the word virus, and the majority of people shit themselves.

 

[Wandering Roman]

Jim that was a great addition to the thread and you are an intelligent person who is definitely dealing with the virus.

I cannot play russian roulette however as I am a licensed caregiver in MI and have no room for failure of a crop for my patients.


While it is true that it can be managed to a degree ,it will always be present and like herpes can flare up in varying degrees at any time, the worst being a full on infection during flowering.


I was going to do some private research into the elimination of the virus fully with a few theories of mine but am too busy,and also feel I have eliminated the virus,thankfully.


Please check into DMSO and it's utilization into cell and epidermal permeation,,,
this used in conjunction with a true anti viral compound may indeed sterilize an infected
plant tissue.

I feel either dmso in conjunction with colloidal silver treatments , or activated chlorine dioxide (Research Jim Humble) very well may be the golden bullet to end this virus in a
tissue.

I'd of course take a very small clone of a target plant and then saturate the rootzone and give it a healthy and systematic foliar spray of this combination until I felt the virus was destroyed...


The only way I could be assured of a clean and healthy tissue was to have a lab analyze it under an electron microscope though to conclude my research...


But if you had the patience this may be worth your while....I can assure you I've already exhausted all other measures ,,including the aspirin ..
I'm certain this combination that I have just disclosed has not been attempted in any study or lab as of this date.


DMSO will allow total permeation of any substance at a cellular level,,,and that my friend is just what we need to destroy this virus.

 

[Wandering Roman]

Next up is yet another symptom of a mosaic virus in cannabis tissue


This what had of course appeared as insect damage,,and I studied it in great detail over time in a controlled environment where there were no insects whatsoever and the season in my Northern climate also assured me there were no cutworms hatched assuredly.


This is the systematic breakdown of cell tissue usually in the upper epidermal layers and then giving way to the palisade mesophyll section.


It can happen at any time but primarily I seen it in the veg stage predominantly .


Again I want to state for the people in the cheap seats that have a comprehension problem,this is NOT insect damage...



Once it is identified as initiated it takes up to 4 days and the tissue has dissolved actually eating itself or disintegrating ...

 

[Wandering Roman]

This symptom is not mentioned nor discussed in any research I've found when studying this virus but it also is never focused on cannabis,thus I will conclude at this time this is a distinctive symptom relevant to cannabis tissue.

 

[Wandering Roman]

These 2 are C99 seedlings with cutworm damage for a reference to actually cleanly eaten tissue via insects...

 

[Wandering Roman]

This is a subtle view of a symptom that will escape many....

Look closely this plant is telling you it's infected...

 

[Wandering Roman]

This yellowing or necrosis is almost always localized to a single spot on a fan leaf in cannabis,
rarely do you ever see it widespread as in other species .

 

[emerald city]

not good news if your and island[limited genetic's] and run a perpetual grow..Great info,I vote to sticky her....

 

[superbolan]

And plants can be infected from handling cigarettes before touching plants, I've known quite a few who even smoke while working in there rooms, thats asking for trouble

 

[10k]

And plants can be infected from handling cigarettes before touching plants, I've known quite a few who even smoke while working in there rooms, thats asking for trouble

BACK UP THE BUS A MINUTE FOLKS...

Is that a FACT or an "Urban Legend" ?

Is it a mistake for people to automatically think of Tobacco Mosaic Virus when we speak about a virus on non tobacco plants ?

If a virus displays a tell tale Mosaic symptom on it's leafs it is in fact a mosaic virus, but is it always correct to call it a Tobacco Mosaic Virus ?
(I think it's not btw)

I see examples of mosaic viri on vegetables and they're not automatically calling it a tobacco mosaic virus. I see nothing to scientifically back up claims of gardeners or farmers causing their plants to catch a virus because of their tobacco usage. I know growers who smoke while tending their indoor gardens like chimneys and they've never had a problem with mosaic virus, myself included.

For decades back yard gardeners used tobacco tea as pest control...no TMV caused. Many mj growers have used a tobacco tea with the same success against pests and not had any such virus caused. Many still do use tobacco tea as a somewhat safe (if handled carefully) way to eradicate pests.

Before the government got involved and made nicotine sulfate illegal for use by gardeners, it was one of the best pest controls a back yard gardener had at his disposal. It was made illegal btw, because of it's highly poisonous effect on people mixing and using it. It would poison by as little as spilling some concentrate on the skin, so it was taken off the market for the publics safety.

Maybe it would be wise to not automatically label a mosaic virus on a cannabis plant "TMV" ?

Is it in fact actually Tobacco Mosaic Virus, or are we making a huge mistake to allow it to have this label ?

Was it high times magazine that created this urban legend by being one of the first cannabis publication to run a story calling it TMV ?

Yes, admittedly, a tobacco plant infected with a mosaic virus can be a vector to infecting other plants, just as a tomato plant infected with a mosaic virus be the vector to infecting other garden plants, carried by insects cross contaminating the plants as it carries the viri with it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see any evidence so far on the net where gardeners are afraid to smoke or spit tobacco in their gardens for fear of their tomatos, vegetables etc catching TMV. So I'm inclined to believe that it is not tobacco use or the presence of tobacco smoke that we have to be fearful of. The only way I could envision our plant "catching" a virus from a smoker, is if that smoker was handling the raw tobacco from an infected tobacco plant (extremely unlikely) before touching the cannabis plant, thus carrying the virus to the plant.

Smoke em if ya have em

 

[superbolan]

I would never trust high times for info. I've used powdered tobacco before for pest control & fertilization but the tobacco came with a list of plants not to use around. Its not the smoke its the tobacco itself as the virus is very resilient . The tobacco doesn't need to be raw.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/dg1168.html

http://www.pdb.org/pdb/static.do?p=education_discussion/molecule_of_the_month/pdb109_1.html

 

[j242]

Uh Oh.

 

[j242]

 

[OjoRojo420]

Hello WR !

I came across the following while doing some search:

"What do grape growers do when they have a virus?

The same thing that your body does when it has a virus, it cooks the virus with elevated temperature (fever).

Your body is usually 98.6 degrees. When infected with a virus your body temp may rise to 106 degrees. Why?

Because most all viruses have a vary narrow window of temperature at which they can survive. This includes plant viruses.

So, cook your plant, give it a fever. Take a clone and incubate the entire clone in 110 degree heat just to the brink of killing your plant (better yet, take an apical meristem clip and incubate at a MUCH higher temp (150 degrees?) then tissue culture that bit of plant matter into a viable clone) then clone exponentially from that sanitary clone and hopefully all your future clones will be virus free."

It was posted by BlueDot some time ago.

 

[Norkali]

Hello WR !

I came across the following while doing some search:

"What do grape growers do when they have a virus?

The same thing that your body does when it has a virus, it cooks the virus with elevated temperature (fever).

Your body is usually 98.6 degrees. When infected with a virus your body temp may rise to 106 degrees. Why?

Because most all viruses have a vary narrow window of temperature at which they can survive. This includes plant viruses.

So, cook your plant, give it a fever. Take a clone and incubate the entire clone in 110 degree heat just to the brink of killing your plant (better yet, take an apical meristem clip and incubate at a MUCH higher temp (150 degrees?) then tissue culture that bit of plant matter into a viable clone) then clone exponentially from that sanitary clone and hopefully all your future clones will be virus free."

It was posted by BlueDot some time ago.

Very interesting - just wish i knew how to tissue culture and turn it back into a clone.