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Mixing your own nutrients?

S

stonedeconomist

you probably shouldn't try and make a concentrated solution becuase when you put those chemicals together in a concentrated solution you get other chemicals formed.
here some information from the FAQ's page at this comercial hydroponics supply place http://www.hydro-gardens.com/faq.htm#10-8-22 concentrate it's is in response to a question about making your own concentrated solutions out of their dry nutrients mixes.

Why should 10-8-22 formula not be made into a concentrate?
I notice in your catalog that the 10-8-22 formula should not be made into a concentrate. Can you explain why?

Thanks,
Matt


Dear Matt,

The reason 10-8-22 can't be mixed as a concentrate is because it contains Calcium, Phosphorus and Magnesium sulfate. These elements will not react very much at a "working strength" dilution. However, if they are combined in a "concentrate", a precipitate of either Calcium phosphate (one of the ingredients in cement) or Calcium sulfate (which is the beginning of limestone) will form. When this occurs it removes some of each element from the solution. Once the insoluble precipitate has formed, no amount of mixing will return the elements to a soluble form that will be available to the plants. A layer of sediment will form on the bottom of the nutrient tank. If this occurs, mixing will only contribute to sludge in the water lines and emitters.

Hope this answers your question.

Mike Morton President Hydro-Gardens
 
P

pico

Active member
Veteran
GH keeps the Magnesium and Calcium seperate in their 3 part. I don't see why you couldn't make their exact mix if you found all the right salts and did a little math. Hell the ingrediants are on the side of the bottle.
 
G

gattorama

Member
stonedeconomist said:
you probably shouldn't try and make a concentrated solution becuase when you put those chemicals together in a concentrated solution you get other chemicals formed.
Click to expand...

if you read carefully above you'll see that you should keep calcium in a separated bottle.
Actually I'm using 6 bottles:
1. monopotassium phosphate + magnesium solfate + potassium nitrate
2. micro elements
3. calcium nitrate
4. ammonium nitrate (for increasing nitrogens)
5. potassium carbonate (for ph up/buffering or increasing potassium)
6. phosphoric acid (for ph down or increasing phosphorus)

For veg I use the first 4 bottles, for flowering the first 3 are enough. 5 and 6 are used for small adjustments.

It's been almost 2 weeks I've been using them with excelent results.
 
G

Guest

I concurr with Gattor and Pico, you MUST keep them seperate, I am planning on keeping Calcium in one jug concentrate to the point where I will use 8 ML per gallon, then the rest in another jug concentated to 16 ml per gallon, thus the "Fred Formula" will be a 2 part mix. Hell at the prices the hydro companys are charging us I might just sell this shit on ebay!!!!!!!!!! :yoinks:
 
G

Guest

gattorama said:
if you read carefully above you'll see that you should keep calcium in a separated bottle.
Actually I'm using 6 bottles:
1. monopotassium phosphate + magnesium solfate + potassium nitrate
2. micro elements
3. calcium nitrate
4. ammonium nitrate (for increasing nitrogens)
5. potassium carbonate (for ph up/buffering or increasing potassium)
6. phosphoric acid (for ph down or increasing phosphorus)

For veg I use the first 4 bottles, for flowering the first 3 are enough. 5 and 6 are used for small adjustments.

It's been almost 2 weeks I've been using them with excelent results.
Click to expand...

Hey Gattor what strin are you growing? what NPK are you using? Did you stay close to the Johnson?
 
G

gattorama

Member
fredfarts said:
Hey Gattor what strin are you growing? what NPK are you using? Did you stay close to the Johnson?
Click to expand...

I'm basically growing 2/3 plants: a nice fat indica pheno of Nirvana's Snow White and a couple of skunk #1 (TFD The Pure).
The first one is a strong, relatively quick, potent and good yielder plant, with a strong hybrid vigor in comparison to the skunk #1.
I grow under a 150 Watt HPS (look here for a brief overview of my setup), so my plants take a not too concentrated nutrient solution. May sound strange but all my plants flower with less then 1.0 EC (1000 uS or 500 PPM @ .5). In my little vegging space, under 90 watt of florescent lights, the SW prefers growing with less then 200 PPM (@ .5, 400 uS), doing great at 150/175.
Taken that into account, yes I stick to the jonhson's recipe for N-K-P (and the rest) ratio, but at half of its strength for flowering. I rise and lower ph by adding phosphorus and potassium, but 2-3 PPM so far were enough, and I don't think you can have an impact from such a small change.
For the vegetative growth I'm also adding 32 PPM of nitrogen (ammonium nitrate), so that the 11% of total nitrogen is ammonia (actually I'm adding 8 PPM of it, since I'm running the Johnson's recipe at a forth of its strength). This seems to also stabilize the ph in the 6.0 area.

This is the plant I posted a picture of 9 days later, a Snow White 13 days into flowering. The white spots you may see are not nute's related but powdery mildew I'm trying hard to get rid of and that seems to be affecting this pheno specifically (fighting it with a low solution of sodium and potassium bicarbonates):
8786sw_03160004.jpeg
 
Guy Smiley

Guy Smiley

New member
Hey folks,

I came across a post a while ago on Cannabis World by a user called etype. It details a modified Hoagland solution for each different phase of plant life. The whole post is really long and it looks like you guys are plenty advanced to fill in the blanks, but it is available if you're interested. The formulas use the common "six pack" fertilizer salts most growshops should have.

The Base Veg Mix NPK 10/6/11:
Grams/Liter
* Ca(N03)2 Calcium Nitrate (1.5 / liter)
* K2S04 Potassium Sulfate (0.115 / liter)
* Kn03 Potassium Nitrate (0.522 / liter)
* KH2P04 Potassium Phosphate (0.348 / liter)
* MgS04 Magnesium Sulfate (1.12 / liter)
* Trace Micro-nutrients (0.1 / liter)

The Base Flowering Mixes:
(a) Preflower NPK 8/6/13: (first week to 2 weeks and a half of flowering...whether you use a preflowering mix is your option)
Grams/Liter
* Ca(N03)2 Calcium Nitrate ( 1.02 / liter )
* K2S04 Potassium Sulfate (0.695 / liter)
* Kn03 Potassium Nitrate (0.0 / liter)
* KH2P04 Potassium Phosphate (0.435 / liter)
* MgS04 Magnesium Sulfate (1.12/ liter)
* Trace Micro-nutrients (0.09 / liter)

(b) Flower: (2 to 3 1/2 or 4th week)
Grams/Liter
* Ca(N03)2 Calcium Nitrate (2.04 / liter )
* K2S04 Potassium Sulfate (0.6 / liter)
* Kn03 Potassium Nitrate (0.0 / liter)
* KH2P04 Potassium Phosphate (0.8 / liter)
* MgS04 Magnesium Sulfate (1.12/ liter)
* Trace Micro-nutrients (0.06 / liter)

(c) Full Flower: (3 1/2 or 4th to end)
Grams/Liter
* Ca(N03)2 Calcium Nitrate (0.0 / liter )
* K2S04 Potassium Sulfate (0.0 / liter)
* Kn03 Potassium Nitrate (0.0 / liter)
* KH2P04 Potassium Phosphate (3.0 / liter) and up
* MgS04 Magnesium Sulfate (1.12/ liter)
* Trace Micro-nutrients (0.0 / liter)
 
G

Guest

OK here we go, I placed the order and now I am getting my math done. For the Micro can someone check my math here?

Target PPMs are:
.3 b
.2 cu
3 fe
1 mn
.1 mo
.4 zn

boric acid 6.7 MG
copper chelate 5.428 MG
iron chelate 87.69 MG
manganese chelate 29.23 Mg
molybdic acid .76 MG
zinc chelate 10.85 MG

Per gallon of Res water

Did I do this right? I was a stoner in HS :joint:
 
G

Guest

Dry Nute Recipe for 100 Gallon Tank use 1520ML of each Bottle

Part A Six gallon Jug
Calcium nitrate (Ca(NO3)2) 4125 Grams

Part B Six gallon Jug
Magnesium sulphate heptahydrate (MgSO4.7H2O) 4350.00 Grams
Monopotassium phosphate (KH2PO4) 1500.00 Grams
Potassium sulphate (K2SO4) 3300.00 Grams

Micros Six gallon Jug
boric acid 17% 10.06 Grams
copper chelate 14% 8.14 Grams
iron chelate 13% 131.54 Grams
manganese chelate 13% 43.85 Grams
molybdic acid 50% 1.14 Grams
zinc chelate 14% 16.29 Grams

When the above mix is added at the rate of 1520 ML to a 100 Gallon Res you should have the following NPK

N P K Ca Mg S
104 59 309 148 74 194

Comments? Threats? Criticisms? :chin:
 
G

Grasso

Hello,

did ever look into a book on plant physiology? After doing so ("Plant physiology" by Taiz and Zeiger, 1998) and teaching myself mineral contents of herbal crops grown outdoors by legal professionals I made up a theoretical nutrient solution for pistillate CANNABIS, stating concentration of element masses in water as parts per million:

N 30 ppm (5/6 as nitrate, 1/6 as ammonium)
K 20 ppm
Ca 10 ppm
Mg 4 ppm
P 4 ppm
S 2 ppm
Si 2 ppm
Cl 0.2 ppm
Fe 0.2 ppm
Mn 0.1 ppm
B 0.05 ppm
Zn 0.05 ppm
Cu 0.01 ppm
Mo 0.0002 ppm
Ni 0.0002 ppm

This nutrient solution for edible crops may be altered since humans may need to digest more elements and in other ratios than that. The plant takes them up as ballast but we need them. On the other hand natives in the Amazonas are healthy although they do not use any salt (and Eskimos do not eat any carbohydrates, by the way).

Anyhow the low over-all and low phosphorus concentrations are strinking. I use hundred times less phosphorus than advised by the illegal sub-culture which puts people up to crops which contain more phosphate than THC!

This sub-culture is nerved by commercial interests. Suckers like Bio Nova even claim a scientifical foundation when all they care for is $$$.

Uli
 
Last edited:
G

Guest

off the top of my head the micros look good, very close to what I am using, I dont quite understand tje low ppm of the macros thou. In Flower I am running 100 ppm N about 80 P but as BV says I puck the K to the limits at 300. I just finished up 2 new rooms, I was doing Sog out of 5 tables or buckets (16 per set) all out of one tank. I had no control over the nutes at differant stages of growth. Now I am set 2 rooms 48 buckets each on 2 tanks. I am finishing up the last of the moved girls and getting ready to start have all the girls in one room be the same age. NOW I can finally start playing with the nute levels, For example, I am going to keep the N closer to veg levels for the first 2 weeks of flower then easse off and boost the k. I run high K but then I dont use additives. I make my own.

My nute bills started at almost 5 bills a month Futuregarden, then switch to GH droped it to 3 bills a month, However after learning from my Yoda (Sproutco RIP) to make my own I spent 400 bucks 4 months ago and I bet I can go another 3 months before reordering again so Now my nute cost are down to less then 75 bucks a month!!!!!!!

AND

The girls LOVE IT! I noticed a differance the first week! I would NEVER go back to buying water agian. I buy Humic and seaweed in dry form also.

I make my own PH up and DOWN! But at the new place I dont need either! Since switching to my own nutes most of my ph fluctuation went away.

SPring water is the key! The girls love it. Of course this is out in the sticks so I am lucky that way.

Keep on studing thats what its all about. I laugh at these poor souls that are making the Hydro companys rich, But someone has to pay for all that advertising! Just not me! :wave:
 
B

bipotato

Anyone make their own Cal-Mag+? Looks like it might be easy enough.

I'm curious what the difference is between Botanicare's Cal-Mag+ and Technaflora's MagiCal, which I like better. For some reason Botanicare's CM+ seems "gritty" and I feel the need to mix it real well each time, whereas the MagiCal is perfectly clear and more "synthetic-like".
 
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