Mixing your own nutrients?

[Guest]

Fred, your math is wrong.

Example: To get 76 ppm magnesium in 1 gallon of water
76 x 3.8 liters x inverse of .1 since epsom is 10% mag
inverse of .1 is 1 divided by .1 = 10
76 x 3.8 x 10 = 2888 mg or about 2900 mg
2900 mg = 2.9 grams epsom

I figured out the calculator promlem. I used Magnesium sulphate (MgSO4)
@ 1.5 gr returns 76 MG and 100 S

But when I used Magnesium sulphate heptahydrate (MgSO4.7H2O)
@ 1.5 gr returns 38 mg and 50 S

and u r correct that 2.9 Gr would fix that part of my mix.

 

[Blackvelvet]

Cu and zn compete. You need more zn than cu. Too much cu causes a zn def. Velvet is drunk at 11:40 am eastern. Not the norm for me. I will get back to both of you soon and see if we can fix all this.


Double check all calculations with a calculator or by hand!


Edit: I got some Puss$ last night. :smile:

 

[Guest]

Look at the suggested levels in sproutco's post above. You don't need over 100 p. That is too much. Try about 50 on mature plants. Also, k at 300 is extreme. You only might need this on tomatoes. lol. Try 200 on mature plants.

This leads me to the question i posted in a differant thread, Why use PK 13 14?

Perhaps I could reduce the NPK to the johnson but then add a booster of home made PK 13 14? What are your thoughts on this? What time period would you want the booster in?

Is there a problem with running the booster throughout the entire flowering cycle?

What happens when you run too much P and K?

 

[Blackvelvet]

This leads me to the question i posted in a differant thread, Why use PK 13 14?

Perhaps I could reduce the NPK to the johnson but then add a booster of home made PK 13 14? What are your thoughts on this? What time period would you want the booster in?

Is there a problem with running the booster throughout the entire flowering cycle?

What happens when you run too much P and K?

You were using the lucas formula with added epsom and experienced k trouble? I believe it. Lucas has k to mag 2.5 to 1 which is too much mag. Then you added more. Aim for 4:2:1 k to ca to mg as a starting point like your doing.

K, Ca, and mg compete with each other. This is called cation antagonism or competition. If you increase 1 of these too much, a deficiency of the other will occur. so if you add pk 13/14 and boost levels alot, ca or mg def might occur. Try for maybe 50 p and 200 k. So ca might be 100. This is on mature plants of course.

 

[Guest]

You were using the lucas formula with added epsom and experienced k trouble? I believe it. Lucas has k to mag 2.5 to 1 which is too much mag. Then you added more. Aim for 4:2:1 k to ca to mg as a starting point like your doing.

K, Ca, and mg compete with each other. This is called cation antagonism or competition. If you increase 1 of these too much, a deficiency of the other will occur. so if you add pk 13/14 and boost levels alot, ca or mg def might occur. Try for maybe 50 p and 200 k. So ca might be 100. This is on mature plants of course.

What I currently use and the plants thrive on is

N Total 106
P 92
K 308
Mg 76
S 92
Ca 147
This is achived by useing 8 micro 16 bloom 1.14 grams of potash, .5 Epsom Salt and .78 gr Gypsum

I am within the range of 421 and the plant really do love it. I personally think the Lucas Formula is ok for Noobs but it does NOT work for my Plants. If I dont add the extra stuff forget about it!

Lets talk about this PK thing though why do they recomend it? I dont quite grasp why you feel my P is too high?? Dont we want more flower sites? I understand that I need a 4 2 1 ratio from k to c to mg but why not boost the P? Please explain.


BTW I really do appreciate the discussion on this stuff, I am a carpenter and a businessman not a Hortaculturist but I do long to understand

 

[gattorama]

When light turned on, this morning, the readings of my meters where:
PH 6.3
EC 688 uS

The ph rise is not troublesome so far. Obviously I'm keeping an eye on it. The baby is eating, she did not soffer from the nute change. S far so good.

Here's some pics of the baby we are talking about. I'll keep on posting.

 

[Blackvelvet]

Lets talk about this PK thing though why do they recomend it? I dont quite grasp why you feel my P is too high?? Dont we want more flower sites? I understand that I need a 4 2 1 ratio from k to c to mg but why not boost the P? Please explain.

P should not be over 60 or so. More p does not increase flowering unless it was deficient in the first place. Too much p will cause problems like micro nute def especially zinc first. This not only happens in the rootzone but through out the plant. PK boost would be good if they were both low. 300 k is alot and you should not need any more. N is the biggest controller of what the plant does. Reducing it to 100 instead of something like 150 or 200 promotes less growth and more flowering. More n increases leafy growth.

 

[Blackvelvet]

Here's some pics of the baby we are talking about. I'll keep on posting.

Happy plants. :smile: If your only going to use a 150 hps, get the light only 6 inches or so away from the tops. Of course, use your hand to make sure it is not too hot.

 

[gattorama]

So, a brief update for today:
PH 6.3 stable
EC 684 uS

ph is probably a bit high but not bad according to my experience. I'm thinking of a solution with a bit of ammonia to get it below 6, but I did not make up my mind so far.

I also need a solution for the vegetative stage: I could be using some ammonium nitrate to increase N and see what happens.

 

[Guest]

P should not be over 60 or so. More p does not increase flowering unless it was deficient in the first place. Too much p will cause problems like micro nute def especially zinc first. This not only happens in the rootzone but through out the plant. PK boost would be good if they were both low. 300 k is alot and you should not need any more. N is the biggest controller of what the plant does. Reducing it to 100 instead of something like 150 or 200 promotes less growth and more flowering. More n increases leafy growth.

I realize that my k is up there, however for the sake of dicussion, lets say I was useing the johnson formula, Then would one want to boost the PK at some point in flowering? To what levels would the boost be bennaficial? or would you be better off staying low throughout the bloom cycle?

 

[Blackvelvet]

So, a brief update for today:
PH 6.3 stable
EC 684 uS

ph is probably a bit high but not bad according to my experience. I'm thinking of a solution with a bit of ammonia to get it below 6, but I did not make up my mind so far.

I also need a solution for the vegetative stage: I could be using some ammonium nitrate to increase N and see what happens.

Ammonium causes stretch so too much is not good. It is also toxic to plants in large quantities. It is common to add 10% of your n as ammonia. Don't use more than maybe 25% ammonia. You may be adding ammonia already and not know it. Check your calcium nitrate and see if it contains a small amount. You can easily just increase the strength of everything in veg to 150 n or so. Just make johnsons 50% stronger. You might find it beneficial to have k at 200 and p at maybe 60 during flower with n at 100. Your in control. Remember the 4 2 1 ratio of potassium to calcium to mag fred and me have been discussing. If you raised your k to 200, ca and mg have to be increased. Rather than depend on ammonia to lower ph, try sulfuric or phosphoric acid as a ph down.

 

[Blackvelvet]

I realize that my k is up there, however for the sake of dicussion, lets say I was useing the johnson formula, Then would one want to boost the PK at some point in flowering? To what levels would the boost be bennaficial? or would you be better off staying low throughout the bloom cycle?

I have used johnsons for both veg and flower. You might find it beneficial to raise p to 60 and k to 200 during all of flowering. N at 100 or slightly less. During veg, increase n to 150 or more on mature plants. 200 k might be good on mature plants too. Johnsons is 1/2 strength hoagland basically but the p is still the same. Its weak and a good starting point for small plants. Research other nute recipes other than Johnson...try jensen, hoagland, and steiner. If you look hard enough you can find these on the internet. Check out page 11 & 12 http://vric.ucdavis.edu/veginfo/topics/hydroponics/hydroponics.pdf Go to the library and get hydro books. Check out the 3 authors at the end of sproutcos post where he lists some books. Also, check out the link in his post that goes to specific levels for mj. (I don't agree with alot of it)

Remember, nitrogen and the type used has the biggest impact on the plant.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for that link that is VERY useful, I have been trieg to find the books that Sproyco reffered to but they are way too expensive when the internet is free, My libarays dont have any of them, if you have anyother useful links send um my way!

BTW, Gator I have been useing sulfuric acid (battery acid) for some time now MJ growers really bicth at me for using it but if you look around a lot of commercial and reserch greenhouses use it on food crops. It really does work great and its much cheaper. I buy it at the autoparts store for like 4 bucks. It is alrady diluted. I poured some on my hand to see if it would burn and it didnt. Although it does not list the dilution on he bottle its pretty week as from the pure stuff eveyone is afraid of.

 

[gattorama]

Hi!

So, ph is stable at 6.3-6.4. EC this morning was 675. Half a liter of solution has been drunk. The plant stretched 8 cm in 4 days (perfect for this pheno at this grow stage).
I think the experiment was totally succesful: I'll be using those nutes from now on.

All plants' nutrient solutions have been changed to the new one.

For veg I increased N with 16 PPM of nitrate and 16 of ammonia. Ammonia, in veg, is about 11%. of total N.

I'll report on how everything is going on.

Thanks a lot for your help.

 

[Blackvelvet]

For veg I increased N with 16 PPM of nitrate and 16 of ammonia. Ammonia, in veg, is about 11%. of total N.

That sounds great. The little bit of ammonia actually helps the uptake of the nitrate nitrogen.

 

[gattorama]

hi!

I've just found this Hydroponic Nutrient Solution Formula Calculator:
http://www.hal-pc.org/~menendez/hydrocal.html

There are also links to many formulas. I thought it could be useful.

My plants are doing very well with the johnson's home made recipe. So thanks again for your help.

 

[pico]

where do you buy the salts from?

Can you buy chelated micros?

 

[gattorama]

where do you buy the salts from?

I brought monopotassium phosphate, potassium nitrate and epson salt in a pharmacy (drugstore, or chemist as you prefer).

Potassium bicarbonate comes from a winemaking store (it is used to decreas wine acidity).

Calcium nitrate and ammonium nitrate come from a gardening shop, together with the micro elements.

Can you buy chelated micros?

Yes. I brought them as a single package.

Hope this help.

 

[Blackvelvet]

where do you buy the salts from?

Can you buy chelated micros?

http://www.hydro-gardens.com/ Get their catalog. They have everything you need if you can't find it around town.

 

[Guest]

HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just figured out what these "Make your own Nutes" is gonna save me!!!!!!!

I was running the lucas with GH Not paying for shipping (free over 150 order) A 100 gal res tank was (I repeat WAS) costing me 12 bucks on every tank, the mix your own is costing me less then 2 bucks! Thats a ten dollar savings every tank! At that rate I can dump the tank twice as often as I am now and STILL save money!

These hydro companys are totallly ripping us stoners off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know I am a cheap skate and all but come on this is NOT rocket science! I am gonna spend less then 300 bucks to make enough nutes for about 30,000 gallons of better then store bought nutes!!!!!!!!!!