What's new
  • ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!

Might be better to just haul ass if confronted

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
Then cops should open fire on any suspected gang banger hanging on the street corner right? Many of these guys have guns, almost all are dangerous, and almost all are criminals, and almost all of them have committed crimes they haven't been tried for yet. So the pigs can just shoot them from a distance so long as the now dead suspect can be linked to any crime it's all good.

Sounds like a great country to live in.

:joint:

Not even close. This isn't about whether he may or may not have committed a crime.

It's about him being an active danger to anyone that crossed his path.

He had already fired on officers once to evade capture.

So, your analogy would be "If a gang-banger had just killed someone in front of witnesses, opened fire on officers responding, and then hid inside an industrial park, and is located with weapon in hand, officers should die or risk his escape into the community instead of using deadly force."

He opened fire on police first. He chose how this was going to end. If he had changed his mind, he could have surrendered at any time without a weapon.

Had he been gunned down while attempting to surrender, then yeah, I'd be infuriated beyond reason.

Instead, this guy met every contact with anyone with deadly force. Complaining that his own rules were applied to him seems like hypocrisy by proxy.
 

woolybear

Well-known member
Veteran
no one was justifying what he was accused of. it was known he was sick, but to put him down because they couldn't keep him on his meds?
yes he may have been a danger, but it was an execution...in this country!

these EOs, proficient themselves with weaponry, ambushed...a sick animal.

how brave...

Added a few peeps to my ignore list based on this thread.
Next thing you'll tell me in Usama Bin Laden was ambushed and executed.... a sick animal... see, he had problems getting a boner, he was sick... No sir, not a fan.

People are using the chewbacca defense in regards to the psycho in question. Unless he wasn't psycho, he was 'sick.' That makes it all better!
 

kifmaster

Member
he wasn't on his own land. He previously had fired at law enforcement.

He had an illegal firearm. Auto or semi it doesn't matter 30 round mag makes it illegal in CA.

The guy got what he had coming. I hate cops but they didn't really have any other choices here. This is not about growers vs cops, this is about one man who killed two other men. He likely knew he was being sought for questioning about the 2 bodies he left, he had his chance to turn himself in and fight his case, he didn't he chose to stay on the lam armed and dangerous.

Dude didn't "deserve" to die, nobody does, but he put himself in a situation where htat outcome was likely.
 
B

BrnCow

Although the cops are legally ordained liars by some bastard court, it still bothers me to see the general public being lied to and imagining that tons of people are running around with fully automatic military weapons. The truth is that the cops are running around with fully automatic machine guns, grenade launchers, and other assorted war weapons even though the constitution clearly states they are supposed to be armed with the same things it is legal for civilians to buy and use. This is just another step in making the whole US into slaves and victims of gun carrying armed robbers. The gun scare is total bullshit. I do agree with people needing to take a firearms safety course before buying one though...
 
S

SeaMaiden

How about a mental health assessment or screen? We just had a local guy (really local, lived in a property behind ours) killed by cops, but he was wielding a knife. It was initially thought he may have gotten the blood that was all over him from a horse he stabbed, but the post mortem and DNA evidence at his home showed that he'd been cutting himself.

He was quite literally out of his mind. He didn't have a gun, either, but he was just as dangerous to folks on an individual basis.
 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend
Veteran
... Since when does that make it ok for police to plan ahead to kill him on contact.

If they suspected their own lives were in jeopardy, all bets are off. They don't have to say a word to folks they think might be trying to kill em. And they don't necessarily set up the situation like you suggest.

Want the benefit of the doubt? Your chances are much better if you haven't already killed two others and happen to be brandishing when found. And a predisposition to ambush is like screws in yer coffin.
 

trichrider

Kiss My Ring
Veteran
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi1vkKG3PSM

means of submissions...

besides, does someone lose the right of self protection just for being suspected of a crime?

it takes a court of law and a jury of your peers to be convicted in this land.

This man was not a rabid dog/animal, to be disposed of.

think...this is the bait the government wants you to bite on...

and to the 'friend' of ours who put so many on ignore....who gives a shit?
 

sso

Active member
Veteran
story about the dude, kinda sounds like the plot from rambo.

maybe he´s just officially dead and is now in some jungle in mudmakeup and a big bowie knife :)
 

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
thinking it was along the lines of this:

http://www.newser.com/story/130488/accessory-to-murder-holder-cries-foul-on-gop-charge.html

part and parcel of this administration...hobama has to ok thes shenanigans.

Wow, really?!

I must admit, your response leaves me a bit conflicted.

I can't decide whether I think you're an imbecile because you think the F&F debacle relates at all to this incident, or because you think that Obama had something to do with approving a local agency's tactical decision.

Point is, though, that whichever choice leaves me thinking you're an imbecile. I really don't want that, because, believe it or not, I agree with you.

I do not want police in this country to think they can do whatever, whenever, including blatant murder. I want police treading on eggshells around the Constitution. Hell, I wish officer's guns were wired for heat, so that touching them left a huge blister. Guarantee you the gun would be the LAST fucking thing they thought about, until the situation got to be more than a matter of discomfort.

But in this case, you're wrong. You come across as being rabidly anti-law, willing to completely disregard facts to strive for some utopian dream that doesn't, nor will ever, exist.

Given the excesses in power demonstrated every day by law enforcement in this country, I'm absolutely dumbfounded by your response to this issue. You want to pick up something and trumpet it as the pinnacle of LEO abuse, then pick something else. Not this.

You say the guy wasn't an animal or rabid dog. Really? Because if he had done the same things he did, but walked on four legs instead of two, that's EXACTLY what he would have been.

He was a danger to everyone in that community. Everyone.

You want to bitch and crucify law enforcement, then, by all means, do so. But at least use a little sense in your targeting. Don't pick the ONE time LEO gets it right.

They get it wrong enough for you not to have to reach that hard.

Your message of caution and danger is watered down by the "boy-who-cried-wolf" effect.

You want to decry LEO abuses, awesome, so do I. But this fight just makes you look silly, and your message gets lost. When even potheads go "Eh, I'd have shot him if I lived out there and saw him in my yard", you're REALLY backing the wrong horse.
 

trichrider

Kiss My Ring
Veteran
:pointlaug ???

perhaps you are right! i am a bit confused...leo is the enemy, they have declared war on potheads. why would i give them credit for executing a deranged person.

been to any police benefits of late?

how many instances will it take for you to take a stance other than: :covereyes:...

sorry to disillusion you friend.

making me out to be a crackpot is accepting leos behavior...and defending it is so much worse.

lynching anyone?

besides, all my posts on this were opinions, so you have one too. great!

at least i present myself as someone willing to express the 'innocent until proven guilty' as it were...and not 'let's shoot first and question later' paradigm that these thugs excercised.

being no stranger to weapons made me think there were other ways to subdue this man...walking a trot line one has to think; not killing him would be first and foremost thought...say wounding him?

place a shot in the knee and this would disable. knowing that these fucks practice placing bullets into a three inch circle, it's hard to comprehend why they would shoot to kill when they were unbeknownst to him.

i'll gladly wear the title of imbecile, if it makes you feel any safer in your little world...and your little world is getting smaller by the moment.:wave:
 

rives

Inveterate Tinkerer
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
being no stranger to weapons made me think there were other ways to subdue this man...walking a trot line one has to think; not killing him would be first and foremost thought...say wounding him?

place a shot in the knee and this would disable.

If you were truly no stranger to weapons, then you would know that nowhere in any self-defense or LEO doctrine are you supposed to "shoot to wound". And what do you suspect the response would have been by the outraged populace if he had been shot to pieces rather than being somewhat more humanely dealt with? Now the LEO team should have drawn straws to see who was to do the engagement when he had been shown to respond quickly and lethally to any perceived threat? This gets more bizarre by the moment.

*edit* What do you suspect the reaction from the Fort Bragg community would have been had LEO taken your suggested approach, missed, and he escaped once again? A demonstrated multiple murderer that had essentially been holding the community hostage for 5 weeks allowed to continue running amok and potentially kill more unarmed senior citizens?
 

Smokin Joe

Humpin to please
ICMag Donor
Veteran
On the contrary, it has everything to do with the specifics of the situation. Bassler was a proven danger to the community, and all of the high-minded morality aside, he was either going to be taken in this manner or more innocent lives were going to be lost. I'm still waiting to read how you think this could have been accomplished in any other fashion. This isn't the city, and it isn't a video game - it's real people using real guns, and with a high level of proficiency. In principle, I agree with your argument. The problem is that reality doesn't really accommodate it in this instance.

*edit* Incidentally, Bassler had been identified by the forester who he attempted to murder when he killed Jere Melo.

A few trained unseen snipers could have shot him in the hands just as easy. Not defending him or them. They have been known to lie to make themselves look good. I know this to be fact. I am a victim of that myself
 

Phillthy

Seven-Thirty
ICMag Donor
Veteran
in this case they should have shot to injure after asking for a surrender and not getting one. they didnt ask and they shot to kill. every suspect has a right to a fair trial. it would have been easy to disarm him with a couple of well placed non-lethal shots. if not then the swat were amateurs at best.
 

Smokin Joe

Humpin to please
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Just wipe your ass with the constitution like they do and all will be good. Kill em all and let god sort them out. It's way easier :tiphat:
 

supermanlives

Active member
Veteran
with all the technology available they could of apprehended him easy. but he killed people so they shot his ass. its a no brainer for leo. he wasnt some random church going citizen for sure.i would of probably shot him too. right between the eyes and one extra for safety. i dont believe many murderers will wake up some day and repent their sins. bullets are cheaper than housing his crazy ass for the rest of his life. seeee yaaaa ashole
 

jescowhite

Member
Might be better to just haul ass if confronted

This guy got what we had coming. I don't think anyone mentioned this but bassler literally took a shit on his first victim after he killed him, news glossed over this and called it 'dna' evidence. The system failed bassler, whatever I'm not missing that dude for a sec creeping around the woods where I live.
 
Top