Methods that landlords and cops use to check up on you

[British_Bulldog]

Do you value your safety?....yeah I thought so!

After running the gauntlet for many years, I thought I'd post up this short guide to try and help keep people safe, and avoid getting busted:


Landlords:

- Sometimes come into your house when no-one's there: this is why you should change the locks as soon as you move in, and if he complains having tried the locks, you know it's a bad place to grow

- He/she comes around for a visit 'while they were in the neighbourhood' - this situation needs to be controlled, so be polite and friendly, but not too friendly, and say you're usually very busy and it's not really a good time right now...this will hopefully send a clear signal that it's not ok just to 'pop around', and establish some boundaries. This only happens with private landlords, as estate agents/lettings agents are usually more professional

- Asks one of his friends to go around. When the friend goes around he's there to check up on you, and will ask if his friend the owner is there (i.e. still living there from before), nosying around at the door in the process and checking you out at a surprise time, usually in the evening when you're likely to be high, and have bloodshot eyes/visibly high, etc.

- Arranges for a 'house valuation' to be done and gives you 24 hours notice, e.g. for a "re-mortgage", whereby someone comes around and checks every room in detail. Always check for ID, and this one can ruin a good grow, and everything needs to be cleared and cleaned in a day. EDITED TO ADD: House valuers also check inside the loft/attic, so ALL the house must be cleared!

ALSO EDITED:
---------------
- Regular house inspections from the agent/landlord themselves. In some countries like the UK this is a regular thing, and can be as often as every 3 months, so you must time your grows in rented accomodation around these.

They're often a full house inspection 'to see if you're adhering to the rules', not including the loft/attic normally, so there's the possibility to hide the plants up there, but be CAREFUL! and cover them. Sometimes they don't want to view upstairs, particularly when they see you're keeping the downstairs perfect, during inspections at least!!

Be sure to have these inspection dates firmly clear in your head, as having a 'surprise' visit because you got the dates mixed up can cause panic, especially if the house has a mini-forest inside!!
---------------



Cops: the 'Knock and Talk' is the favourite - i.e. they can't get enough evidence to get a warrant, otherwise they'd be busting you right now!

Typical tactics involve saying someone's been badly injured and your address is linked, saying there's a problem with your vehicle, that an escaped convict was seen in your backyard, etc, and could they come in and talk about it....don't believe a word of it, but stay calm, collected, polite and friendly, but be firm and make it clear that you or your address is not involved, that you're preoccupied right now (make something 'important' up related to your life), and you're sorry you can't help them anymore.

Whatever you do, don't let them in with plants or weed in the house, as by giving your consent to letting them in, they have the right to search your house, and don't let them bully or force their way in - put a foot behind the door where they can't see it, and only have the door open about a foot.

After they've gone, discretely clear house when you know the coast is clear (do a walk around of the local streets and discretely look in cars to see if you're being watched), as they're definately on to you, and could well soon come back with a warrant based on lies.

NB. They may well have already checked out your rubbish bags too, so keep aware for any signs of that. The first sign you see and are sure someone's been tampering, get ready for the sh!t hitting the fan!


If anyone else has anything to add, please do.


Peace

 

[TheGoodStuff]

Good thoughts; just wanted to add two things.

1) If your landlord gets a copy of your electricity bill, you might get a call or a visit.
2) Don't lie to the cops. If you tell them that something happened and you're busy, ok. Just don't be specific.

 

[British_Bulldog]

Hi and thanks TGS,


I would say that:

1) Don't grow in a place where the landlord either pays for or gets a copy of the electric bill. Full stop, no excuses! Find out before signing the tenancy agreement.

2) It's usually better not to lie to the cops, but in some knock and talks they will become so persistant to come in and "why can't they come in", that you need to tell a white lie to justify not letting them in. In this case, as with all good lies, make sure you make good eye contact with the cop pushing you, tell a lie that's mainly the truth and it will be very believable.


Peace

 

[jimbroker]

I would add that if you have two entryways.. i.e. a front and back door a better strategy for dealing with the cops is to go out the back and meet them in the front. That way, you don't even open the door to them and put them off guard because they aren't expecting you to be there. If you have a fire escape in an apartment, be sure you know how to get out BEFORE the cops come or a fire breaks out.

 

[British_Bulldog]

Hi jimbroker - that could work, but I'd only use that technique if there was a strong pungent smell near the front door (Which there shouldn't be!!), as by not just opening the front door, the cops will become suspicious, unless you have a very good and believable excuse.


Hi ExcelAtIt - of course it's against the rental lease, but so is growing and smoking drugs! It's better to get caught changing the locks BEFORE you grow than getting caught DURING a big grow.

It's also against the lease for them to come around when you're not in, but you've guessed it - landlords do often like to come around when you're not in (another reason why it's better to rent through a more professional agent, with an out-of-town landlord).

Regarding repairs - you should be prepared to do everything yourself, and for external work it's better to hire an independent contractor, but if a repair man from your agent/landlord has to come around while your growing and the locks are changed, you should judge the situation on its merits, always be there and open the door yourself in the event of any visit, with a pre-arranged 24 hour notice visiting time, and it's usually a good idea to change the locks back before any visit. If he might need to go anywhere near the grow, get rid of everything before the visit, and never have anyone come around when you're not in.

Always insist on being there during ANY visits, whether there's a grow in place or not, to assert your rights and privacy.....i.e. if you let them come around while you're not there before you grow, then it sets a precident for later when you ARE growing, and you don't want them asking or trying to come around without you present when there are plants in the house.

I've lived by the skin of my teeth sometimes by trying to bend these rules, and nearly come unstuck a few times, but have held it together and never had any landlord probs or been arrested in my life: unless you've got the level-headedness, don't look like a stoner/grower and know how for it, I'd suggest against it and stick to the safety rules I've laid out.


Peace

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

EXCELENT THREAD!!!
needs to be stickied....
you should correct how you open the door for the cops.
the best way is to open the door a crack. check that there not raiding you, then slink through the small opening and close the door behind you, so all 2 or 3 of you are outside on your doormat, it sounds silly, but its better then having the door open a crack, because while one is talking the other is peeking, trying to find that preciouse probably cause.... a bong, and ashtrey even a lighter in sight could give them a nice lie for them to get a warrent on, moreover you can spend an extra minute with them and not give them opotunity. the extra min or two make you seam like your not being evasive also. its also harder to put you under duress to let them in when your outside with them.

 

[jimbroker]

Hey I just want to clarify one thing on the advice I gave:

Upon further consideration, the best solution here in the US would be to NOT ANSWER THE DOOR, period. I have been involved in two occasions where people simply did not answer the door to the cops and they eventually go away because here in the US they have to have a warrant to enter your house. Additionally, my brother has called the cops on people for being a disturbance (loud music, yelling) and they go and knock on the door, the person doesn't answer and they leave. Police are well trained in how to "catch people in a lie" so your chances of talking them out of being suspicious are small and will probably just invite more scrutiny and suspicion and perhaps even serve as grounds for a warrant! You may be loosing valuable information (I have had a sheriff come to my door because the previous occupant of my place was skipping out on his bills) but it is not worth the risk talking to them.

I think people who are living in apartments need to understand that growing is a risk and should be ready to tear down their grow-op in a heartbeat. If you are not comfortable with that and don't see yourself owning your own place anytime soon... guerrilla farming might be more suitable for you.

 

[Guest]

DH, i agree with the cracked door then slippin' outside...especially if you have a dog that's barkin' it's head off, looks a lot less suspicious too...shut the door behind you and say "Oh, sorry i'd invite you in but my dog doesn't like strangers"...but in my opinion if they are raiding you they are not going to knock...they are going to bust down the door, rake out the windows, throw in some flash bangs, and comes in guns blazing....that's about how most counties across the country are doing it these days, full on military tactics

as for the incriminating evidence in plain site...i've adopted the habit of having one cabinet in my kitchen dedicated to my pipes, jars, keef box, etc....when i'm done puffin' i get up and put my shit away, may seem like a pain in the ass but once you start doing it becomes habit and you just do it

Short story.....one day at my old apartment...living by myself, my dog (american bulldog), and my cat....it's a 2 bedroom, one br i have split in half for a place to sleep and my veg room(400w), second br is my flowering room(2400w)......there's a knock on the door at around 10am...i look thr/ the window and it's two guys i've never seen before (my dog is barkin' like mad) i open the door and slip out onto the porch (the door had a window with curtains and they saw me come to door so i really had no choice but to open it, otherwise i would have probably never had opened the door)...they go on to state that they are marshalls looking for someone they have a warrant for....inside i'm like yeah right are you are tryin' to snoop around my shit and my heart is practically slammin' out of my chest but on the outside i am calm and collected...the building had three store fronts on the first level and three apartments on the second along with a house next that had two apartments,so address numbers were confusing....anyway they go on to tell me they have info that the guy is staying in the downstairs apartment of the house...so we walk around to the house and they're asking me all kinds of questions about the guy (description, etc.) that lives there...but there was just this old guy that lived there and definitely not the guy they were looking and the previous tenant was one of my buddies...the whole time i'm thinking "this is fucking weird" but they never asked any questions about me at all...anyway they say goodbye and have a good day, shake hands and then i guess the head guy turns to me and gives me his card and tells me thanks for my help that if i'm ever in trouble to give him a call....never the less i spent the next couple weeks extremely paranoid and contemplating tearing down but nothing ever happened and i never saw those marshalls again..so i guess they were really looking for the dude..not so short sorry

 

[manicobsession]

excellent write up bulldog..
I agree with it all ,and just recently got out of one of these situation
changed the locks,he never complained once..we ended up getting evicted for other reasons and had to tear down at day 52 of flowering..what a hasstle

 

[Guest]

If you do open the door all a cop has to say is that he smells marijuana whether he does or not and that gives him probabal cause,then BAM their tearin threw all your Sh*t. And it's his word against yours= you f*ct. I'm glad that I own my own place, but I would still scrap everything in a second if I had security problems.

 

[British_Bulldog]

Hi and thanks DIGITALHIPPY:

I've considered going outside, but I think without having guard dogs that could be more suspicious than speaking through a foot of open door, with your foot hidden behind the door, as how many people step outside their house, close the door fully, then have a conversation with the cops?

If I was a cop, and you've got to think like 'em, I would think "hang on, something's going on here, has he got something to hide in there", and would make me more curious to get inside.

However, there is also the fact that during Knock and Talks, I've heard of cops getting frustrated with drawing a blank and finally saying "I smell MJ" when they don't and forcing their way in.

But personally I would always stay inside the house (unless I had the dogs excuse), and always make sure there's nothing visible and there are absolutely no smells of MJ around that area ever (and be careful, because you get used to MJ smells and others can pick up on it easier).

I have had cops accuse me of smelling MJ, but I have denied it and they didn't push it without an admission.



Hi jimbroker - I've got to disagree with you there about ignoring the door, because by the Knock and Talk stage, they're keen to talk to you, to suss you out and hopefully get probable cause/grounds for a warrant, so if you avoid opening the door, they'll be back regularly until you do....and trust me, like a dog with a bone, they won't put it down 'til they're done.


Hi ThirdEye - yes, with dogs it's a good excuse and a good idea.

In your situation with the Marshalls, I don't know a massive amount about all the different police departments in the States, but if Marshalls ever bust MJ growers, I would have torn down that grow, otherwise would've played it cool, and thought "it's not their department anyway".

In the UK, it's the regular uniformed cops who do the Knock and Talks, and I imagine in the US too.


Hi and thanks manicobsession - it's a shame about losing the grow, but you kept your freedom and that's more important - you lost a battle but can fight on!


Peace

 

[jimbroker]

British_Bulldog - Are you from the UK? Maybe it is different there but I have never heard of cops repeatedly coming back to people's house.... in the US if they don't have a warrant they can't do shit (legally).

I still do not think that is at all advisable to be talking to the police.You even say it yourself "because by the Knock and Talk stage, they're keen to talk to you, to suss you out and hopefully get probable cause/grounds for a warrant". You say "and trust me, like a dog with a bone, they won't put it down 'til they're done." Are you speaking from personal experience? If so, please elaborate. Because in my personal experience the cops are 10x more dangerous when you talk to them than when you ignore them. In my personal experience, I have never heard of cops showing up more than even twice to knock on the door. Once it looks like it is going to be more hassle than it will already be to obtain their warrant, they will move on to the next target. It is arrogant to think that through some conversation you are going to alleviate all of their suspicions and have them move on. You are feeding the fire, not quenching it.

After you talk to the cops what prevents them from coming back later?

BTW, I am forking this to another thread because I think their are other issues that should be discussed besides "should I answer the door or not?" and I think this one is deserving of more discussion. I would personally like to hear from people who have talked to the cops and to what avail it was.

 

[Guest]

British_Bulldog....US marshalls (oh and they are plain clothes) generally just apprehend fugitives in the states so that's why i didn't tear down....they gave me no reason to think they were there to investigate me, they didn't ask one question about me

as far as the door cracked thing in the states you have a lot more rights in your place of residence...it's not like being in a car where you pretty much lose all your righs and they can make up and say whatever they want....so unless they actually saw something, not just some supposed smell they will have no justified reason to come into your home...they need a warrant unless somebody's life is in danger, there is a gas leak, fire, etc....and if they do come in, it will be a pain in the ass, cost a bit of money, but any good lawyer would get whatever charges they come up with thrown out for unlawful search

I believe....if you can see them and they can't see you don't open the door...and if you have a dog let them just stand at the door and bark as much as they want


peace and be safe

 

[British_Bulldog]

Hi jimbroker - ok, what I mean is that basically when it gets to the Knock and Talk stage, they have a reasonable suspicion that you are growing, as someone has told them that you are, but they don't have enough evidence to get a warrant.

However, they are now interested in you, and want to bust you, but have to 'go through the motions first'. This process of gathering evidence could start with checking through your rubbish/garbage, and then if they get something usable for a warrant, they will do. If not, or alternatively, they will come around for a chat, i.e. the Knock and Talk. They know you're growing and know that you'll probably be nervous at the door, so they use psychology to try and trap you, hopefully with you allowing them to come in -ALWAYS SAY NO!

I have been in this situation, so know exactly what it's like, and when you're holding the baby in a fairly big way, it's very important to do everything exactly right.

If the cops are law-abiding themselves, they will try to persuade, cajole, encourage you to let them in, using whatever lies they want, like they're looking for someone and can they come in and check they're not there "it'll only take a minute", etc.

It doesn't matter what they say, do not let them in without a warrant, but at the same time play it very normal and cool. I wouldn't say too cool, as that's suspicious too, but a good balance, as a legit person would be like.

As I say, they know you're growing, or have a high suspicion, due to their informant, and how nervous you act will dictate how much you've got going on in their eyes.

If you make it seem like it's not worth the trouble for them to get a warrant, and for them to end up with egg on their faces at the station after coming back with nothing, then they will leave it.

However, like dogs they will smell fear, and if you show fear they will either put you under surveillance and try to gather evidence legally to get a warrant, or make up lies to either come in straight away, the classic being "I smell MJ", which is probable cause in the States, and grounds to walk right in without permission, or otherwise make up some lies to get the warrant.

In any case, if they get in the house and they find a grow, you're busted and you'll need a top class (and very expensive) lawyer to help you out. He might be able to get you off on an illegal search, but let's face it, the judge isn't going to look kindly on a grower, and the "I smell MJ" is very difficult to disprove in court (and the cops know it), and when a grow shows up, it's hard to deny there could have been a smell of MJ, despite the fact we know about carbon filters, etc - what do you think a 'layman' judge who doesn't have any grow experience or frequent IC Mag is going to think? --> growing MJ = pungent smell

About feeding the fire, if you act calmly enough and send the message out that it's not worth their trouble or their reputation at the station, then they will leave you alone, but maybe not straight away.

That's why it's important to check to see if you're under surveillance and when possible, get rid of everything illegal from the house.

BTW: if you have a clean record, it quenches the fire, so to speak, but if you have previous, then they will hold onto the bone and keep knawing away until they get to the gristle.


Hi ThirdEye, thanks for the info about US marshalls, I suspected as much, and I would have done what you did, as it's not their department to check out suspected growers.

However, about the 'supposed smells' as you put it, there have been many cases over the years on the MJ boards where "I smell MJ" has meant cops pushing their way in, finding a grow and the grower getting busted, often leading to prosecution in court.


Be careful people, be very careful, as LEO can be cunning and devious to get you, and so you have to be one step ahead of them to survive in this game.


Peace

 

[LoneStarGrower]

Does anyone have any ideas on how to combat the "I smell mj" excuse to bust in? If they say that and come inside and don't find anything, its simply "oh I'm sorry sir, I guess we were mistaken." On the other hand, if they find anything mj related, that seems like it would seal your case in court... "we were talking on the front porch, smelled a strong odor of marijuana and entered the residence with probable cause." Whether there actually was a smell or not from the front door is completely subjective and the only defense you could have is "uh, there was no smell." But who is the judge/jury going to believe? ... A grower/stoner/smoker/drug dealer/ect. or a brave police officer who followed his nose to discover $400,000 worth of marijuana ready to be sold to school children all around the state!!

It seems like the smell argument is the police officer's golden ticket to getting into your house and snooping around, ****ing bullshit

Maybe you could pretend you are a paranoid hypochondriac (sp?) who is constantly worried about "outside germs" ect. and have some plastic lining set up behind the door when you come out which could possibly stand up in court to prove there is no way in hell they could have smelled anything...haha stupid I know but what other options are there?

 

[British_Bulldog]

Hi LoneStarGrower,

It's a b!tch that's for sure, but it depends on if the cops are law-abiding or not, and on your reaction to the question.

If you look them in the eye and say in a confident (but NOT! cocky) manner "I don't smell anything like that", then if they are law-abiding they'll try to push for an admission before coming in, and if they're not they'll just say it's probable cause and force their way in anyway.

This is why it's important to try and stop it getting to this stage in the first place - so always remember:

No smells,

no outward signs of growing like light leaks/garbage bags over the windows,

no obvious heat signature for choppers - i.e. big plumes of hot air, uninsulated lofts/growrooms glowing up, etc

no paraphernalia lying around in plan view through a window,

absolutely no MJ waste in the garbage - i.e. roaches, plant material, grow waste, etc.

don't be too noisy with big ass fans uninsulated, loud air pumps vibrating, and no banging/building growrooms at night with neighbours trying to sleep, etc.

don't steal power,

always paying your electricity bill and rent on time,

don't draw attention to yourself - no flash toys when you're unemployed, etc

either don't sell or only sell to one trusted customer,

to watch your back when getting grow supplies,

never leave windows/doors open when you go out, even for "5 minutes"

be friendly to the neighbours


If you do all of the above, you minimise the chances of it ever getting to a Knock and Talk - be sloppy in any area, or just unlucky sometimes, and it will be your downfall.


Peace

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

Does anyone have any ideas on how to combat the "I smell mj" excuse to bust in? If they say that and come inside and don't find anything, its simply "oh I'm sorry sir, I guess we were mistaken." On the other hand, if they find anything mj related, that seems like it would seal your case in court... "we were talking on the front porch, smelled a strong odor of marijuana and entered the residence with probable cause." Whether there actually was a smell or not from the front door is completely subjective and the only defense you could have is "uh, there was no smell." But who is the judge/jury going to believe? ... A grower/stoner/smoker/drug dealer/ect. or a brave police officer who followed his nose to discover $400,000 worth of marijuana ready to be sold to school children all around the state!!

It seems like the smell argument is the police officer's golden ticket to getting into your house and snooping around, ****ing bullshit

Maybe you could pretend you are a paranoid hypochondriac (sp?) who is constantly worried about "outside germs" ect. and have some plastic lining set up behind the door when you come out which could possibly stand up in court to prove there is no way in hell they could have smelled anything...haha stupid I know but what other options are there?

what are you people??
we all have carbon filters in our grow-room but our houses rely on incense and airfresh spray??
ive got a can33 w/4" S&P in my livingroom and it always has that sterile 'carbon/metal' smell no mj here...

avoiding the door can be bad, but alot of things are situation based.

ive had one incident i know where hideing behind the locked door saved me from a cement cubicle.

 

[British_Bulldog]

what are you people??
we all have carbon filters in our grow-room but our houses rely on incense and airfresh spray??
ive got a can33 w/4" S&P in my livingroom and it always has that sterile 'carbon/metal' smell no mj here...

avoiding the door can be bad, but alot of things are situation based.

ive had one incident i know where hideing behind the locked door saved me from a cement cubicle.

Yes that's a very good idea if the living room is near the front door - I've done it myself with exactly the same set-up (need to change the outer cover on the carbon filter quite often due to the smoke, but it's worth it). A cheaper option is a good air purifier with basic carbon filter, and I've been through quite a few of those too.

It all depends on whether the place where you smoke is near the place where the cops/visitors may come, i.e. the front door (and no open windows near where you're smoking people!).

However, I always say it's better to have a smoking room as far away from the front door as possible, and if you have something like a fleece jacket on which holds onto the smoke, then take it off before answering the door!


Peace

 

[hamstring]

I think I see the delta between what British Bulldog and others are saying about the two choices.
1. Opening the door just a little to talk to them.

2. Staying inside and never opening the door.

If I understand correctly British Bulldog is talking about the actual “Knock and Talk” where the cops are on to you but have no real evidence so they try the “Knock and Talk”. In this scenario he may have a very valid point. They have some grow evidence to follow up on whether it is true or untrue they are there to check it out to get a feel for you and try to tell if a grow is going on. So maybe handling it with a cool head and talking to them may in this case help you. If you don’t answer or talk like the Bulldog said they are going to keep waiting and watching.

In the second Scenario it is just a cop, marshal, detective who knows and it could be anything from mistaken identity to traffic case to loud music. They are not there because they are suspicious of a grow they are they for something completely unrelated. So not answering the door may just send them down the road to the next house or just on their way.

I am not putting any judgment on which technique fits either scenario better but there is a definite distinction between the two scenarios and they may call for different actions.
I believe with a cool head and some back and forth with the door closed you can figure out which scenario you are in at the time. Then it is up to you how to handle it but in either case this is some very valuable info.

Thanks BullDog

 

[DurbanStone]

Personally, I would never answer the door if it was someone I didn't know, unless it was clearly not an officer. I would tear down the grow if it were, and wait for awhile, if they never came back I would put it back up.

As for landlords who pay the electricity bill, I was thinking about a 600watt light with a 6 inch blower(how many watts does one take?) I think it's like 5cents a KWH where I will be living, what do you all think about that?