Measure to Reschedule Marijuana-Federal

[Jhhnn]

Right when we have the brass ring in reach, we reach for a fake.

Agreed. Better that congress do nothing until forced to act on behalf of us all, not just placate some of us in the meanwhile. It's a trick bag, a sucker play. If it weren't, Repubs wouldn't be offering it.

What they're saying to med users is "You already have this, but we're going to say that it's OK when we can't do shit to stop it anyway. See, we're really on your side! You can go away now! Your old friends & supporters, rec users? You don't need them anymore, now that we're pals!"

Th pitch to the electorate is much the same.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Marijuana becomes schedule 3 because it's a step forward right?

Yes it is. Look what it is now.

Now it can be as tightly controlled as amphetamines. Sure, your doctor can prescribe, not recommend, prescribe, you cannabis if he thinks it will help you. Just like right now, your doctor can prescribe you amphetamines. Asking the doc for it, will flag you as an abuser, and you won't get shit. 'Pot docs' will go the way of those old script docs of the late 60s early 70s. So if your doctor prescribes you cannabis, you'll go to the pharmacy, not the dispensary, the pharmacy, and get a bag of diesel right?

I thought first schedule 3, then down to schedule 5, would be good?
It has to be better then schedule 1.

Wrong, the pharmaceutical companies would never send out raw plant matter, nope, nor would a doc prescribe something to smoke, even though you can titrate your dose more effectively. They don't know that or care, doses should be the exact same size every time. No you won't be getting decarboxalated oil in a capsule, you be getting a pill, just like all the other pills at the pharmacy that are schedule 3. Yep, that 'research' will get you more Marinol, Sativex; don't worry, there'll be lots more thc/cbd type pills. maybe even patches.

Wrong again, in the Netherlands and other countries, you can go to the pharmacy and get herbal Cannabis.

Maybe we can get together then and stick on a patch and chill.

This schedule 3 or even 4 or 5 is the death of our movement and all the little steps and victories we've had for all these years. Right when we have the brass ring in reach, we reach for a fake.

You would allow more wasted time as many more USA patients that could of been helped but will not be because the research needed to help them can not be legally done in the USA. Wise up you are not helping patients, you are keeping them and the researchers in ignorance and blindness as they can not do science with Cannabis or the Cannabinoids, how can that be better for anyone? It is only better for the prohibitionist.

Removal from the schedule, or even WAY better than that would be to get behind the 'LEAVE THE STATES THE FUCK ALONE BILL', which seems to get nothing more than a yawn from our own 'activists.'

I though the way to get it legalized was to give the states and Feds a piece of the pie via taxes and regulation, and big biz a piece of the profits to grow, distribute and sell it? Like done with tobacco and alcohol?

edit; you are all for every one being able to grow their own? What a laugh. Just like it's OK to grow your own coca plants right??
This is our overlords getting us to vote for our own destruction.

First of all it is not legal to grow, sell, give away, use, do research with any Cannabis, unless licensed by the FDA and DEA, under current federal law, the law of the land today.
The states that have Cannabis for medical or recreational are all breaking federal law and with a new federal presidential election in 2016 all of this could be gone in the blink of an eye, then what would you have? None of it is legal, the Feds can stop all of it at anytime if they want to.
Maybe better to change the Federal Schedule to 3 or better to 5, and start chipping away at all the federal anti Cannabis laws if you want real change. The Feds have good reasons to have prevented changes to Schedule 1 for Cannabis, it prevents science from being used against them as it would/will be with a Schedule 3 or Schedule 5 allowing lots of new research.
The feds are not stupid they know science is on our side so they prevent us from using it, simple. Now why are you against us using science? You just want to depend on the Feds that they will do nothing to Cannabis in the states??? Even if a republican gets elected in 2016? I don't get it.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I made a strong distinction between state level issues & federal level.

Current federal guidelines from the Obama Admin wrt enforcement apply to both med & rec legalization at the state level, prohibiting DEA interference with activities that are demonstrably state legal. Notice the careful wording on my part.

That very, very likely won't change prior to 2017, if ever. That favors legalization in ways that moving cannabis to schedule 2 does not. MMJ patients make no real & practical gains from its adoption.

Sure if you just ignore all the Cannabis research and researchers that can not do their work because they can not get permissions to use Cannabis and Cannabinoids in research, research is the foundation of using these materials in ways to help the most patients, or am I wrong? As it is now it is all but impossible to get Cannabis do do legal research on Cannabis or the Cannabinoids, that has to change, the sooner the better for patients.

States are already free to pursue greater levels of legalization than the proposed statute allows, with both CO & WA having done so.

Look a little deeper to see what our mutual opponents are really trying to accomplish with this. As a practical matter, they can't stop MMJ in some form or another but they will attempt to turn back recreational MJ if they can. They need a more rational platform than schedule 1 marijuana to work from, and this is it. There's no real reason to let them have it. None of us gain anything we don't already have.

"They" are fighting rescheduling for the simple reason they are opposed to any Cannabis research unless it will find out something negative about Cannabis, it has been this way for decades. They do not want Cannabis rescheduled, they have fought it tooth and nail for decades. They do not need a more rational platform, they want a platform that will prohibit all Cannabis research, as well as all medical, recreational and even industrial uses. They, the antis, are not stupid, and see the more the voters learn the worse off they will be with their efforts to prohibit all cannabis research and uses.
Re-education of the voters is key to change and they do not want us to have science on our side.
-SamS

 

[Morcheeba*]

...Wrong, the pharmaceutical companies would never send out raw plant matter, nope, nor would a doc prescribe something to smoke, even though you can titrate your dose more effectively. They don't know that or care, doses should be the exact same size every time. No you won't be getting decarboxalated oil in a capsule, you be getting a pill, just like all the other pills at the pharmacy that are schedule 3. Yep, that 'research' will get you more Marinol, Sativex; don't worry, there'll be lots more thc/cbd type pills. maybe even patches....

it obvious you dont know what you are talking about.........sativex is not a pill.

i guess you didnt even see the s. gupta show on cnn where cancer patients in Isreal vaped raw cannabis in the hospital after cancer treatments.

edit; you are all for every one being able to grow their own? What a laugh...

why is it laughable?

 

[Jhhnn]

"They" are fighting rescheduling for the simple reason they are opposed to any Cannabis research unless it will find out something negative about Cannabis, it has been this way for decades. They do not want Cannabis rescheduled, they have fought it tooth and nail for decades. They do not need a more rational platform, they want a platform that will prohibit all Cannabis research, as well as all medical, recreational and even industrial uses. They, the antis, are not stupid, and see the more the voters learn the worse off they will be with their efforts to prohibit all cannabis research and uses.
Re-education of the voters is key to change and they do not want us to have science on our side.
-SamS

As you say, they're not stupid. In that, I'm sure they see that they need to modify their position to retain credibility. A majority of states will soon allow MMJ, a process of change they can't stop or realistically hope to reverse. They're trying to cut their losses, limit the damage, keep the boat afloat, even win back part of what they've lost.

MMJ still conforms to their authoritarian ideology & methods of societal control. "Patients" need permission from authority figures, "doctors", in order to obtain "medicine" for a very narrow range of state approved "medical conditions". Those approved conditions vary considerably state to state simply because they can & the delivery mechanisms vary for the same reasons. That's because MMJ exists in a grey area carved out between the law, the schedule 1 classification, and the reality of what can actually be enforced.

With me so far?

Let's look at that a little deeper. In that grey area, there are no national standards that doctors need conform to, no directives from the AMA or FDA, both deeply authoritarian & highly conservative organizations. In moving cannabis to schedule 2 or 3, their influence comes into play. They can & will dictate protocols & policy to doctors in MMJ states as they do wrt all prescription drugs.

Right about now, there should be a little bell ringing in the back of your mind.

Rescheduling doesn't give them less control but rather more control over when MMJ can be prescribed & under what conditions. It also gives them more control over who can dispense it & the form it takes on delivery. All of the state level variations can be consolidated into national policy subject to the whims of Congress & the Executive. Reference Canada.

Be careful what you wish for, particularly when dealing with people who are fundamentally dishonest. The only reason they're offering any terms at all is because they're on the verge of total collapse, the result of a successful & ongoing effort to undermine federal authority at the state level. Legalization in CO & WA are the culmination of those efforts so far.

They're just trying to pull back & regroup under the terms of a cease-fire, a rather tricky one at that. In that, they're quite desperate.

I see no real reason to allow that, not with victory so near at hand & with the allies we have in the Obama Admin. If Obama & Holder did not favor legalization, they never would have allowed retail sales in CO or WA. It can be no other way, despite the contrived raving from their critics in the community & elsewhere.

It's our game, our court & our ball. The referees are on our side. Why he Hell anybody would want to play a different game on a different court with different referees for the same stakes is beyond my comprehension.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Its not a game, and I have fought to reschedule Cannabis to Schedule 3 for decades. All we have achieved can be gone in a few days if an Anti Cannabis Right Wing Republican is elected in two years as president, you have no idea what could happen with the DEA and others set loose to stop it all, with tax records from all the people in the Cannabis Biz to find assets to seize. I understand this may not ever happen, but I have been here before like when Jimmy Carter promised to decriminalize Cannabis and then backed out due to NORML's Stroup spilling the beans about Bourne. And the war on drugs and Cannabis begin shortly after. It is just the last decade+ that reform has really advanced to its present pace.
Your scenario may or may not happen, as long as there are states that allow home cultivation like Co. or like Calif I would not worry.
Tax & Regulate & Reschedule from 1 to 3. That should be a good starting ground to re-educate to make all the changes you want. Change does not happen in a vacuum it took years of prep. Shame to lose what we have because the Republican Feds in two years have again decided to go after the people, Cannabis, land, assets, money, again because under present law they can. If you want to make it a states only issue then make the changes in Washington DC to do so. Rescheduling will help do that.
-SamS

 

[Jhhnn]

Its not a game, and I have fought to reschedule Cannabis to Schedule 3 for decades. All we have achieved can be gone in a few days if an Anti Cannabis Right Wing Republican is elected in two years as president, you have no idea what could happen with the DEA and others set loose to stop it all, with tax records from all the people in the Cannabis Biz to find assets to seize. I understand this may not ever happen, but I have been here before like when Jimmy Carter promised to decriminalize Cannabis and then backed out due to NORML's Stroup spilling the beans about Bourne. And the war on drugs and Cannabis begin shortly after. It is just the last decade+ that reform has really advanced to its present pace.
Your scenario may or may not happen, as long as there are states that allow home cultivation like Co. or like Calif I would not worry.
Tax & Regulate & Reschedule from 1 to 3. That should be a good starting ground to re-educate to make all the changes you want. Change does not happen in a vacuum it took years of prep. Shame to lose what we have because the Republican Feds in two years have again decided to go after the people, Cannabis, land, assets, money, again because under present law they can. If you want to make it a states only issue then make the changes in Washington DC to do so. Rescheduling will help do that.
-SamS

I certainly respect your POV, but I think we've already moved past that. I would also point out that rescheduling will not protect anybody who has dispensed cannabis for non-medicinal purposes, not even schedule 5. That's any & all retailers in CO & WA. It won't protect Colorado's personal growers, either. It's also currently impossible for any Admin to act against MMJ providers in compliance with truly coherent state law- that does not include CA atm, unfortunately. We've had MMJ since 1996 & the public simply will not back such a move.

I seriously doubt that the Obama Admin will allow cannabis law to remain as is much after the 2014 election, certainly not through 2016. Public sentiment & the evidence compiled here in CO & WA will back whatever play they make, up to & including de-scheduling cannabis entirely. The vast majority of users do not do so for medicinal purposes at all, something I'm sure that both Holder & Obama realize full well.

I strongly suspect & certainly hope that they'll challenge Congress to act in just that fashion, force a model similar to that used for alcohol & tobacco. It's the only model that conforms to reality at all. I don't agree completely with the provisions of the tax equity act, but something like this is what we need & what the public really wants-

http://polis.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=318723

The WoD actually began 10 years earlier, under the Nixon Admin. Efforts to decriminalize during the Carter years failed because decrim did not & could not address all the issues, cannabis use by teens chief among them. Legalization covers all the bases.

I recognize full well that this isn't a game, that the welfare of millions of people depends on the outcome. I pointed out that the rules of gamesmanship apply, as they do wrt anything political. Our opponents & their goals are illegitimate & dishonest by any rational standard, even when they're in retreat. Better to keep them on their failing battlements than to allow withdrawal to a more favorable position for them.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I certainly respect your POV, but I think we've already moved past that. I would also point out that rescheduling will not protect anybody who has dispensed cannabis for non-medicinal purposes, not even schedule 5.

Not directly but as I have said what is required is re-education of the voters, rescheduling will be part of that process and allow the science to back our case.


That's any & all retailers in CO & WA. It won't protect Colorado's personal growers, either. It's also currently impossible for any Admin to act against MMJ providers in compliance with truly coherent state law- that does not include CA atm, unfortunately. We've had MMJ since 1996 & the public simply will not back such a move.

Want to bet what will happen if a right wing Republican anti-Cannabis nut case gets elected in 2016? So far the feds under Obama have not changed anything, they are ignoring or tolerating the Cannabis in the 21 states, that can change in a few days after the elections. It can all be gone.

I seriously doubt that the Obama Admin will allow cannabis law to remain as is much after the 2014 election, certainly not through 2016. Public sentiment & the evidence compiled here in CO & WA will back whatever play they make, up to & including de-scheduling cannabis entirely. The vast majority of users do not do so for medicinal purposes at all, something I'm sure that both Holder & Obama realize full well.

I strongly suspect & certainly hope that they'll challenge Congress to act in just that fashion, force a model similar to that used for alcohol & tobacco. It's the only model that conforms to reality at all. I don't agree completely with the provisions of the tax equity act, but something like this is what we need & what the public really wants-

http://polis.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=318723

The WoD actually began 10 years earlier, under the Nixon Admin. Efforts to decriminalize during the Carter years failed because decrim did not & could not address all the issues, cannabis use by teens chief among them. Legalization covers all the bases.

I know all about Nixons war on drugs I lived in Calif when he closed the border with Mexico. Changed smuggling from a mom and pop affair to big biz with tunnels, 16 wheelers, planes and boats and guns. Did not stop Cannabis for more then a few months.
You are mistaken about Carter it was the Bourne affair that ended his proposed decriminalization of Cannabis, check your history, I was there and involved. Check up on K Stroup head of Norml he was the idiot snitch that torpedoed the hope.
-SamS

I recognize full well that this isn't a game, that the welfare of millions of people depends on the outcome. I pointed out that the rules of gamesmanship apply, as they do wrt anything political. Our opponents & their goals are illegitimate & dishonest by any rational standard, even when they're in retreat. Better to keep them on their failing battlements than to allow withdrawal to a more favorable position for them.

x

 

[armedoldhippy]

I doubt seriously that legalization will ever happen if we wait for the general population to okay it for teenagers. best we can ever hope for is legal for adults with a realistic blood/urine level that actually corresponds to impairment, or a swab that is accurate & detects usage in the last 2 or 3 hours. Bob Q. Public (even if he smoked as a churlish 15 year old or younger) aint gonna pull the lever for kids to smoke. JMHO

 

[Jhhnn]

x

You miss my point entirely, Sam. In CO, we're not trying to show the medical benefits of cannabis. We don't need to do that. What we are showing is that legalization carries a much lower level of societal harm than prohibition. We're also creating taxable jobs, profits & sales benefiting the state & the people rather than the cartels & the underworld in general.

At this point, the vast majority of Americans realize that cannabis is definitely *not* what prohibitionists have painted it to be for longer than either one of us have been alive. They just don't know what it *is* in a legal regulated environment. We're showing them. The results are very well received & speak for themselves. Scrutiny & publicity are intense & we pass with flying colors. Prohibitionists have to attack our reality rather than their own straw men, and in that lies their defeat at a much deeper, more profound & immediate level than rescheduling can possibly provide.

A64 strikes to the heart of the matter, pushing peripheral justifications & obfuscations aside. We don't need for cannabis to have any medicinal value at all to keep winning this fight. We just need to show that legalization is demonstrably better than prohibition, and we are. Come the 2016 election, our success will be written in stone, completely undeniable & highly contagious. We always knew it would be if we could just seize the opportunity to prove it. We have & we are, every day. Any attempt to turn back the clock will be political suicide.

 

[paper thorn]

^^Great post, says it all.

Hey morcheeba, don't take it personal. I answered it in the next sentence about coca plants not being allowed. The new medical model allows for less and less and NO home growing already. Under a rescheduling it would be completely forbidden. Rescheduling is not going to make the whole US like CO.

And what does it matter, pills, patches, sprays, even tinctures, I don't want to have pot treated like a 'drug' that scientists and chemists extract whatever out of to give us regulated doses of.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

You miss my point entirely, Sam. In CO, we're not trying to show the medical benefits of cannabis. We don't need to do that.

Why not? You do not think it was the medical issues that changed the picture for Cannabis? Of course it was. That was the reeducation. If you think all US states would vote for Cannabis legalization for recreational you are maybe living in a dream world. Not yet. Re-education is required for the hold outs still.

What we are showing is that legalization carries a much lower level of societal harm than prohibition. We're also creating taxable jobs, profits & sales benefiting the state & the people rather than the cartels & the underworld in general.

If you are anti Cannabis then none of this matters to you.

At this point, the vast majority of Americans realize that cannabis is definitely *not* what prohibitionists have painted it to be for longer than either one of us have been alive. They just don't know what it *is* in a legal regulated environment. We're showing them.

Only if they are receptive to the idea, and if you think that a majority of American voters support recreational Cannabis, you need to reconsider your belief.

The results are very well received & speak for themselves. Scrutiny & publicity are intense & we pass with flying colors. Prohibitionists have to attack our reality rather than their own straw men, and in that lies their defeat at a much deeper, more profound & immediate level than rescheduling can possibly provide.

Maybe if it were true, but it is not.

A64 strikes to the heart of the matter, pushing peripheral justifications & obfuscations aside. We don't need for cannabis to have any medicinal value at all to keep winning this fight. We just need to show that legalization is demonstrably better than prohibition, and we are.

You are not showing that to a majority of Americans, it is medical use they have accepted.

Come the 2016 election, our success will be written in stone, completely undeniable & highly contagious. We always knew it would be if we could just seize the opportunity to prove it. We have & we are, every day. Any attempt to turn back the clock will be political suicide.

I understand your beliefs, I do not agree, where is the wave of recreational legal use in the USA? Just two states, that both had legal medical use first to prime the way. Try in a state that has never approved medical use of any kind, go for a full on recreational use and see what happens, or maybe you would not even try as you do know what would happen?
Jhhnn, how old are you? You seem politically naive, I am not trying to criticize your age if young but you seem to think it is so simple, I doubt you have been in the political trenches long.
Do you at least agree that all of the recent political success is base on the foundation of medical use?
That is what changed the picture? I know I do.
-SamS

 

[Morcheeba*]

^^Great post, says it all.

Hey morcheeba, don't take it personal...And what does it matter, pills, patches, sprays, even tinctures, I don't want to have pot treated like a 'drug' that scientists and chemists extract whatever out of to give us regulated doses of.

no worries PT.

i understand why you dont want your pot to be treated like medication but what about those in real medical need who turn to cannabis for relief of something serious. usually as a last resort option after traditional pharmaceuticals failed. how does a new user dose when not vaping...with oils, sprays or tinctures and their not all equal in potency or effect.

more reasons recreational and medical should be different movements.

peace

 

[Jhhnn]

As I offered, rescheduling is an attempt to split the community, build a new line of defense against the devil's weed.

Rec users have supported Med users every inch of the way, voting for MMJ when there was no direct benefit to them at all. And now that Med users are offered the illusion of sanctifying what they already have, they're ready to give Rec users the old pump & dump.

Let me clue you in- MMJ wouldn't exist anywhere in this country w/o the support of Rec users. It won't spread to more states w/o their help, either.

Get over yourself.

 

[Morcheeba*]

who has what.

im in florida so over 20gms = felony. min mind. sentencing for over 25 plants.

open your mind and realize many will DIE if arrested..........for an illegal med.

not all live in med states.

EDIT: let me clue you in.......rec cannabis wouldnt exist if cali med didnt prove that even in the most liberal of recomended use cannabis is safe.

peace

 

[mofeta]

It can be no other way, despite the contrived raving from their critics in the community & elsewhere.

... beyond my comprehension.

Let me clue you in-...

....Get over yourself.

Hmm, I haven't paid close attention to the sum of your posts here at ICMAG, but have seen enough of them over time to file your name under my "seems like a reasonable, knowledgeable individual capable of rational discourse, displays intellectual honesty" mental cubbyhole.

I perceive your tone in the last few posts from which I draw the above quotes, to be incongruous with this assessment. Maybe you are acting out of character. Or, maybe my sample set was so imcomplete as to render my inference invalid.

As to your point, I find your analysis flawed.

The preference cascade currently underway with respect to the regulation of Cannabis in the US is now irreversible. I hope you are right that the effort to reschedule is an attempt by statist control junkies to fall back to a defensible regulatory position. Besides being a pathetically impotent strategy to realize their goals, it has a number of felicitous consequences for liberty-loving people, weed lovers or not. Sam has mentioned a few, not the least of which is the incredibly important (for our cause, but even more so for the human race in general) ramifications for the "legit" scientific/medical community.

As to whether it is optimal, best-of-all-worlds strategy, well, maybe not, but at worst it is a inconsequential misallocation of resources. At best, it will provide the final elements to inform and shape the all-powerful public opinion, and so thoroughly entwine Cannabis(and its truly massive revenue stream) in the bureaucratic/administrative/regulatory machine that it will have completed its transformation from pariah to panacea.

But, it could be another way, as I am fallible, but open-minded, and I can comprehend your viewpoint, and do not feel the need to instruct you on your behavior. As to "cluing you in", I guess I am condescending to that aren't I?

 

[Jhhnn]

who has what.

im in florida so over 20gms = felony. min mind. sentencing for over 25 plants.

open your mind and realize many will DIE if arrested..........for an illegal med.

not all live in med states.

EDIT: let me clue you in.......rec cannabis wouldnt exist if cali med didnt prove that even in the most liberal of recomended use cannabis is safe.

peace

Oh, so we needed each other until prohibition forces gave you a little upskirt shot & you're ready to jump in bed with 'em.

I'm all for activists exercising their best judgement when dealing with their own state politics. Rescheduling cannabis at the federal level likely won't change their success ratio one teensy bit. Schedule 1 classification hasn't stopped their efforts in other states.

Prohibitionists are completely cornered by outright legalization in CO & WA. They're starving because they can no longer exploit fear of the unknown. Vague understandings of Amsterdam & MMJ have weakened the impact of fear mongering & lies, shifting public opinion enormously. Many people have moved from accepting Anslinger's propaganda completely to doubting it to various degrees. They still have doubts, questions & concerns about legalization. CO is addressing those concerns at both a factual & perceptual level. We're getting it right, winning them over, like this-

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-...y-poll/colorado/release-detail?ReleaseID=2035

Here in CO, we won the marijuana war, and now we're winning the Peace. It really is a victory for nearly everybody. As the numbers continue to come in about what we've done, we'll topple prohibitionist arguments entirely. The only reason there's not a lot of media coverage is that there's really not much to cover, not that they aren't paying attention. It's pretty boring for them, just the way we want it. Watch what happens when the numbers are in for the full year of 2014. Activists everywhere will have a helluva lot more ammo than they've ever had and an even more receptive electorate. If Colorado is what legalization looks like, lots of people will want it and lots of others will be willing to get out of the way. Nearly all those people will be in favor of MMJ at the very least.

Prohibitions are fucking snakebit, fer crissakes. Don't do anything that might help 'em.

 

[RonSmooth]

Big money involved to get Republicans on board.

Money always trumps inflated senses of self righteousness in politics.

The scheduling of cannabis will ensure that the market stays I the hands of whoever chipped in for the donation mr congressman received for introducing such legislation
Hydrocodone was just moved to schedule II from III, where it had always been

As hard as it may be for some to hear, cannabis is not a cure-all, side effect free, magical or sacred. It is a plant that produces psychoactive compounds.

Just like the poppy.

Opiod pain meds are relatively safe and very effective in treating pain.

Say you find yourself with a compound fracture of the tibia. Or 3rd degree burns covering both arms and chest. Or any seriously painful condition. ..

Would you turn down a shot of dilaudid in favor of a joint?

Hint: you wouldn't.

 

[Jhhnn]

Hmm, I haven't paid close attention to the sum of your posts here at ICMAG, but have seen enough of them over time to file your name under my "seems like a reasonable, knowledgeable individual capable of rational discourse, displays intellectual honesty" mental cubbyhole.

I perceive your tone in the last few posts from which I draw the above quotes, to be incongruous with this assessment. Maybe you are acting out of character. Or, maybe my sample set was so imcomplete as to render my inference invalid.

As to your point, I find your analysis flawed.

The preference cascade currently underway with respect to the regulation of Cannabis in the US is now irreversible. I hope you are right that the effort to reschedule is an attempt by statist control junkies to fall back to a defensible regulatory position. Besides being a pathetically impotent strategy to realize their goals, it has a number of felicitous consequences for liberty-loving people, weed lovers or not. Sam has mentioned a few, not the least of which is the incredibly important (for our cause, but even more so for the human race in general) ramifications for the "legit" scientific/medical community.

As to whether it is optimal, best-of-all-worlds strategy, well, maybe not, but at worst it is a inconsequential misallocation of resources. At best, it will provide the final elements to inform and shape the all-powerful public opinion, and so thoroughly entwine Cannabis(and its truly massive revenue stream) in the bureaucratic/administrative/regulatory machine that it will have completed its transformation from pariah to panacea.

But, it could be another way, as I am fallible, but open-minded, and I can comprehend your viewpoint, and do not feel the need to instruct you on your behavior. As to "cluing you in", I guess I am condescending to that aren't I?

Thank you. Your perspective is quite welcome. You may be entirely correct, but I see CO legalization forcing a complete paradigm shift, a whole new way for all of us to view cannabis use. It's like electronic watches, cell phones & the internet- irresistible.

I don't think prohibitionists can stop it, very likely not prior to 2017, and by then it'll be too late. OTOH, I have trouble dealing with people who are hung up in the old paradigm of MMJ & are entirely willing to split the movement to serve their own desires.

 

[rives]

Rec users have supported Med users every inch of the way, voting for MMJ when there was no direct benefit to them at all. And now that Med users are offered the illusion of sanctifying what they already have, they're ready to give Rec users the old pump & dump.

Let me clue you in- MMJ wouldn't exist anywhere in this country w/o the support of Rec users. It won't spread to more states w/o their help, either.

You are quite obviously unaware or prefer to disregard the history of Prop 215 in California. Rec usage was certainly not the intent of the average voter in '96, and the usurping of the legislation from medical to obvious recreational usage has done far more to endanger mmj's continued existence than it has to pave the way for legalization. All you have to do is take a look at the backlash in virtually any of the communities in Northern California to see this. As was proven in the last feeble attempt to broaden things in California, rec users are anything but a substantial force in the voting booth.