MAX YIELD = Less Plants & Long Veg OR More Plants & Short Veg???

[Fraggle Rock]

MAX YIELD = Less Plants & Long Veg OR More Plants & Short Veg???

So, I am looking to get a "General Consensus" on this. I know there is going to be a million variables such as medium, nutes, strain, lighting, etc...

Some people I talk to though feel strongly about the basic guidelines of growing less plants or more plants in a space to achieve the same goal. What do you all think??

 

[Fraggle Rock]

Also, if you really think it depends if the strain is Indica or Sativa Dominant, please let me know!! Thanks again everyone!!!!

 

[Johnny Bud]

Hi dude, i guess weve all asked this question at some point, i think youve got the right understanding, thier are just too many variables, one of the main ones being strains, e.g if you have a main cola type of strain, many of these close together would make sense, if you have a bushy shorter strain the you need to allow space for the side branches to get light, this choice alone impacts on grow space required and veg time required, thin colas will shoot upwards where as thebushy ones will need training and veg time for the side branches to reahc above the canopy, this example alone has many diffferent variables that can change the outcome, my sudgestion is to give us as much info as possible about your plans, goals, space restrictios and well anything the more info the better. hope this helps or at least lets you relise the size of teh question lol, but that said one you have this info and a plan the rest is easy Peace

 

[Sir_Nugget]

here is the deal... in my experience they can both be productive, but to be the most productive, you want to do a sea of green at 4 plants per sq ft in hydro or 16 per sq ft in soil. A bush tends to have a few main colas and a bunch of smaller colas.. by doing a sea of green you ensure growing all large uniform colas.. get it?

 

[chef]

Fact, a proper SOG WILL out yield a proper big plant grow.

Not headsup crop vs crop, but 12 months yield vs 12 months yield.

@ SirNugget
A hydro sog? puhleeease & 16 psf in soil? WTF? lol

A REAL SOG is a raised bed full of SOIL with 4 plants per sq foot & it's been that way since before most of these little internet fucks were born!

16psf @ 3"x3" each lmfao

 

[Fraggle Rock]

Hi dude, i guess weve all asked this question at some point, i think youve got the right understanding, thier are just too many variables, one of the main ones being strains, e.g if you have a main cola type of strain, many of these close together would make sense, if you have a bushy shorter strain the you need to allow space for the side branches to get light, this choice alone impacts on grow space required and veg time required, thin colas will shoot upwards where as thebushy ones will need training and veg time for the side branches to reahc above the canopy, this example alone has many diffferent variables that can change the outcome, my sudgestion is to give us as much info as possible about your plans, goals, space restrictios and well anything the more info the better. hope this helps or at least lets you relise the size of teh question lol, but that said one you have this info and a plan the rest is easy Peace

So basically it seems like a Sativa would be better for growing more and an Indica would be better for growing less?

here is the deal... in my experience they can both be productive, but to be the most productive, you want to do a sea of green at 4 plants per sq ft in hydro or 16 per sq ft in soil. A bush tends to have a few main colas and a bunch of smaller colas.. by doing a sea of green you ensure growing all large uniform colas.. get it?

So SOG then?? I have a 5x10 space I can use. @ 50 sq ft, that would be a lot of plants. When you SOG, there isn't a veg a period, right?

Fact, a proper SOG WILL out yield a proper big plant grow.

Not headsup crop vs crop, but 12 months yield vs 12 months yield.

I would be looking at this long term, so a 12 month average is fine. It seems like I would need a lot of plants for a SOG.

Additionally, I do like the idea of running 1 strain and having them all uniform and harvested at the same time. Then clean the room up and prepare for the next round.

With SOG it seems like you are always harvesting, cloning, adding, etc.

 

[C21H30O2]

Fact, a proper SOG WILL out yield a proper big plant grow.

Not headsup crop vs crop, but 12 months yield vs 12 months yield.

@ SirNugget
A hydro sog? puhleeease & 16 psf in soil? WTF? lol

A REAL SOG is a raised bed full of SOIL with 4 plants per sq foot & it's been that way since before most of these little internet fucks were born!

16psf @ 3"x3" each lmfao

does this not assume that you don't have a separate veg area? with a veg area much of the advantage of SOG goes out the window. Everyone claims SOG produces the best but I wonder if the is more apparent than factual. I have not seen any SOG growers claim 1.5g/w but I have seen tree/bush growers achieve this and if you have a veg area then you have no down time.

 

[medmaker420]

does this not assume that you don't have a separate veg area? with a veg area much of the advantage of SOG goes out the window. Everyone claims SOG produces the best but I wonder if the is more apparent than factual. I have not seen any SOG growers claim 1.5g/w but I have seen tree/bush growers achieve this and if you have a veg area then you have no down time.

I would almost agree except that most of the big bushes indoors has SOME fluff on the lowers and usually still gets added to the end weight.

What I wish people would weight is the A+ buds alone because those (to me) are the only ones worth weighing as the rest is just gunna be personal or hash trash anyways.

I can see solid topping strategies working wonders BUT you spend more time with the girls, they have to veg ALOT longer and are harder to manage "per plant". In the same breath, you have 16 plants in a sog for instance and many a TON more but with bushes you can have 4-6 and have less to water/feed.

Fast veg and solid yields = sog
Slow veg and solid yields = bushes

if you have a veg cab just sitting there growing the next cycle all the time versus having to weight for girls to be ready every new cycle then YES big bushes would be easier.

It is easy to veg something for a month or two when it isn't next in line or you sitting there WAITING for it to be ready to toss in flower.


less to manage and easier to trim also goes to sog because bushes are bitches to trim up especially if you leave the lowers on.

 

[darksith]

its a good debate going on here and the boys above have basically nailed it on the button. If you have the ability and space to have 3-5 generations of plants going at the same time then bigger is better to a certain degree. If you can have fresh cut clones, plants that are a month old, plants that are ready and waiting to go into flower, and flowering plants then I would say your ideal size when harvested is about 3-4' tall plants pruned heavily at the bottoms to minimize the shwag output. But that being said most people don't have the room to pull that off. You would need a veg space 2 or 3 times the size of your flowering space.

The best method of growing will be the method that allows you and all your indavidual factors to have a crop flowering 365. If you can limit your flower rooms down time to a day or 2 at the most then you have found the most productive type of grow for your situation.

 

[chef]

Also, if you really think it depends if the strain is Indica or Sativa Dominant, please let me know!! Thanks again everyone!!!!

Absolutely you'll want a non-branching/big cola strain for SOG & start'em budding as soon as they're barely rooted.

 

[Fraggle Rock]

Great responses so far everyone!! Thanks for the input!! It seems to me that the biggest variable everyone can agree on, is the amount of total space you can devote to your grow operation.

its a good debate going on here and the boys above have basically nailed it on the button. If you have the ability and space to have 3-5 generations of plants going at the same time then bigger is better to a certain degree. If you can have fresh cut clones, plants that are a month old, plants that are ready and waiting to go into flower, and flowering plants then I would say your ideal size when harvested is about 3-4' tall plants pruned heavily at the bottoms to minimize the shwag output. But that being said most people don't have the room to pull that off. You would need a veg space 2 or 3 times the size of your flowering space.

The best method of growing will be the method that allows you and all your indavidual factors to have a crop flowering 365. If you can limit your flower rooms down time to a day or 2 at the most then you have found the most productive type of grow for your situation.

That makes complete sense to me, just depends on the space you have to work with and there are several ways to dial it in for a perpetual harvest!!

Absolutely you'll want a non-branching/big cola strain for SOG & start'em budding as soon as they're barely rooted.

I'm going to be looking for some good strains to make sure I have the best for my space. Thanks again!!

 

[darksith]

Great responses so far everyone!! Thanks for the input!! It seems to me that the biggest variable everyone can agree on, is the amount of total space you can devote to your grow operation.

you got it, the best method always depends on your personal options. One thing to consider is if you are renting and there is a chance the landlord wants to come have a look, having a solid bed of soil really sucks. Ive been there done that.

there are several ways to dial it in for a perpetual harvest!!

Im not talking about a perpetual harvest, that is the one type that will not yield you a lot and its so much more work.

 

[Lazyman]

I've done both, and though a SOG looked neat, it didn't outyield my old bushes. It took a lot more work, more pots, more soil, more clones (it seems impossible to get enough clones) and was just a pain. Tried a 5 day and a 7 day veg SOG, with anywhere from 9 to 32 plants per 4X4 tray (couldn't fit more with 2 gallon pots) and though it is very strain-dependent, overall yield was greatly diminished. I got a 3 and a 4 pound harvest out of 8 lights, and though there were some problems with the first crop, the second one went pretty well. Not worth it to do on a commercial scale I decided.

Now I'm going back to a 4-week veg with bare bulbs hung between trees (a la DoubleD) with staggered lighting (a la Hydrosun) and Blumat autowaterers (a la Sunny Dog)

Fuck SOG, unless you can produce unlimited clones and can cram a "just-right" spear indica into small pots and pack a ton into trays, it's just a bitch.

Which would you rather have, a room full of these:

Or a room full of these?

 

[Admiral Canna]

I didn't vote as I think its 6 in one hand, 1/2 a dozen in the other.

You can do 5 plants in large pots with long veg or you can do 20 plants that are grown with very little veg time in smaller pots......and I bet you a buck that the yield wouldn't be that far off, if at all.

You will sacrifice something, be it space, time, money on soil or pots.

I am perpetual as I depend on it for meds. I grow plants that finish at 2-2.5 feet tall and average about 2 oz each.

These plants get 2-3 weeks veg from clone and then hit the bloom room.

I've tried it a few different ways and this seems to be the easiest and most productive for me.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Lazyman, I think they're both rather nice.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

theres another thread with more info on this...one guy says he gets 2lbs off 600 watts in your square footage with 36 1 gallon SOG and chop the fan leaves off at 3 weeks flowering...imma try that next.

 

[simon]

In my garden, everything is LST'd and vegged for at least 4 weeks. The plants are flowered with 6-8 main stems - no secondaries - and yield an average of 2-2.5oz per square foot with almost zero popcorn.

Simon

 

[YosemiteSam]

There are excellent arguments for both. Both can be made to work great (you can find great grows both ways on this very site).

What it really comes down to is your particular circumstances, preferences and comfort levels.

Not to be overlooked would be if you are going to be legal or not. Being legal could very well dictate trees. Even being illegal one has to consider the varying degrees, i.e. the penalties based on plant numbers...or possible penalties.

How good are you at taking clones...not only getting enough for a SOG, but getting an even canopy with the ones you do get rooted. Can you maintain multiple mothers all in perfect health vs one or two or even none for trees.

How much capital do you have to invest up front. A proper SOG is going to have lower running costs but up front costs are going to be higher.

My advice...take a look at grows of different styles...a bunch of both. You will get a feel for which you will be most comfortable with.

In the event of a tie my advise would be start with trees because of lower investment (provided you have enough space for veg). It is easier to add more equipment later and the skills you develop will make the transition to SOG easier.

 

[B. Friendly]

from personal experience I had 10 plants for 3 months veg and it produced around 4p's, but my 60 veg'd for 4 weeks pulls around 8p's. The 10 plants where under 6000w and my 60 are under 5000w. So from this experience I believe more for less veg is the way to go.

 

[TroubleGuy]

Which would you rather have, a room full of these:

Or a room full of these?

I'm not surprised you didn't like your SOG experience - those are tiny girls for a SOG! SOG can and should be done with plants bigger than that... Repot rooted clones into small 3x3" pots and allow them to veg until you see 2-3 nodes of NEW growth, then then repot to a 1gal pot and bloom. You'll see greatly improved results.