Master Nevil..Cannabis Castle article.......

[idiit]

Or the analogy of a womans vagina

bootie be the round end yo.

was talking about a male bootie just as easily as a female bootie. idiit don't go there fwiw.

I had original nevil skunk, nl1, nl2, early pearl. the early pearl I got was ruderalis dom and sucked. the rest were fantastic.


the nl2 was boysenberry. sounds ok, but in reality they were exquisite terps wise.


my dumb ass didn't know anything about preserving genetics and like a lot of great strains I once had all gone.

they have inbred those nevil supplied genes for 35 years. you can breed indoors several batches per year so we are talking potentially 100 generations of inbreeding.

I got some unworked jojo aloha white widow beans and they are fantastic. thank you Mr. Stash!

gots to get away from excessively inbred genetics me thinks. idiit

^^https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=7609386#post7609386

this is why I posted aww stuff for the "thread jacking" wtf palm faceplants.

epigenetics for the clones.

 

[bluntmassa]

It can't really be tested but whose to say a parent doesnt start offering different genetic dominance as it ages.

When a male human starts to get old the pecker gets tired, the sperm count gets lower, and I think there is a higher chance of developmental issues with the child. So maybe plants are the same, who really knows.

I've wondered before the health of a parental plant change the genetics it might pass on.

I know with humans the healthier the parents the better quality traits get passed on. So does a healthy male or female plant pass on different genetics than an unhealthy male or female?

Can one breeding produce better offspring than a different breeding if environmental conditions are more favorable?

Well a clone dose not have an old pecker. Red Delicious apples have been around for a very long time and still produce good apples I certainly don't see much of a difference from one grocery store to the next Red Delicious are about all the same.

They are clones nothing more you can most definitely keep a clone 30+ years and unless you fucked up along the way will still produce the same great buds. Sweet Pink Grapefruit was even doing great a few years ago the last time I seen it grown and she must be over 20 years old.

 

[FireIn.TheSky]

Well a clone dose not have an old pecker. Red Delicious apples have been around for a very long time and still produce good apples I certainly don't see much of a difference from one grocery store to the next Red Delicious are about all the same.

They are clones nothing more you can most definitely keep a clone 30+ years and unless you fucked up along the way will still produce the same great buds. Sweet Pink Grapefruit was even doing great a few years ago the last time I seen it grown and she must be over 20 years old.

Bad example, did you eat or do you currently have a red delicious apple in your hand from 30 years ago?

How can you compare apple from now to an apple from 30 years ago?

Have you been growing apple trees yourself for 30 years?
Apple trees are grafted on to root stock, the plants providing the root stock may have been changed over the years how could you know?

Also, in most cases an apple you eat right now could be from a 30 year old tree. How would you know what vintage the tree is?

Also if you have not been growing the trees yourself for 30 years how would you know if they are the same in terms of vigor, yield, sugar content etc... the growth traits of the plant could have changed but unless you are growing them you would not know.

No apple varieties on the commercial market are made from seeds they are all selected clones that have been grafted, this is different than cannabis that is meant to produse thousands of seeds per year.

We are talking about plants that are designed to produce seed in the form of f1 hybrids, you would have to compare to something like that, they must be hybrids not ibls

 

[Betterhaff]

Bad example, did you eat or do you currently have a red delicious apple in your hand from 30 years ago?

How can you compare apple from now to an apple from 30 years ago?

Have you been growing apple trees yourself for 30 years?
Apple trees are grafted on to root stock, the plants providing the root stock may have been changed over the years how could you know?

Also, in most cases an apple you eat right now could be from a 30 year old tree. How would you know what vintage the tree is?

Also if you have not been growing the trees yourself for 30 years how would you know if they are the same in terms of vigor, yield, sugar content etc... the growth traits of the plant could have changed but unless you are growing them you would not know.

No apple varieties on the commercial market are made from seeds they are all selected clones that have been grafted, this is different than cannabis that is meant to produse thousands of seeds per year.

We are talking about plants that are designed to produce seed in the form of f1 hybrids, you would have to compare to something like that, they must be hybrids not ibls

You’re somewhat refuting your own point. Why do they graft the varieties of apples then? And the original did come from a seed, my latest favorite is Honeycrisp.

The Cavendish bananas I eat today pretty much taste the same as the ones I ate 50 years ago.

 

[FireIn.TheSky]

Were talking about 2 parents producing worthwhile seed year after year for decades.

Apples are a monculture, no 2 apple seeds grow the same, the specific varieties sold on the commercial market are one select clone grafted on to root stock and sold, not to produce seed but to produce fruit.

How is this example anywhere near breeding for seed?

Now if he used some f1 variety of tomato that was decades old maybe.

But apples are completely unrelated.

We are talking about the quality of pollen over decades and how it ebbs and flows with environment and health. Animal breeding would probably provide a better example.

We need breeding examples not monoculture examples.


Also bananas are not grown from seed either, they are a monoculture produced by rhizome which is a long the lines of cloning. Educate yourselves for fuck sake before you try to sound smart.

 

[Betterhaff]

Apples may not be a good example. But if you are talking cannabis the same principles apply though as far as asexual propagation. You cultivate and keep 2 selected parent clones to produce seed year after year. One of the difficulties is cannabis is an annual plant.

 

[FireIn.TheSky]

You are missing the point, I am not talking about the plant itself and how I can be cloned year after year, I am talking about the traits a certain plant passes on as it ages. Does the genetics of the offspring sway from better to worse as a plant ages.

I get that a plant can be cloned infinitely but how this all came up was pondering if a breeding pair will pass on the same traits for decades or does it change as a plant gets older.

For example if a breeding pair produces excellent off spring in their first year of life, do they produce the same quality offspring 100 breedings and 20 years later if in between that time that have suffered from environmental hardship, illness, infestations , near death experiences etc...

People say some seed varieites were better 20 years ago and produced more winners, so if the same parents were used since then this would suggest that the traits change as age increases and health has gone up and down over the years. This is epigenetics, how environment, health and age alter outcomes.

 

[idiit]

I don't know why but it is difficult to get fruit that tastes decent let alone as good as fruit 20 years ago in se usa.

fruits are losing their flavor.

it's not just me. lots of other ppl remarked the same.

 

[FireIn.TheSky]

Idiit I don't want to sound like a know it all but I will say that probably has more to do with the way it's grown than the genetics.

Conventional farming is all about growing the fattest produce not the best tasting, plants are given fertilizer that will make them grow fat. What is missing from the equation is soil minerals, remineralization of the soil or the lack thereof. Minerals increase sugar content aka brix.

You want tasty produce eat properly grown, properly harvested organic produce it's worlds apart from the chemical laden factory farmed crapola.

Also keep in mind the vast amount of chemical pesticides on non organic produce that may alter the taste. Apples are the number one pesticide crop. Even after washing much of the pesticide remains, peeling only removes up to 80% of pesticide content.

Conventional agriculture is dirty and food is grown more for looks that nutritional content.

Also worth noting each year as pest and disease resistance increases so does the amount of chemicals needed to combat them, so in reality there could be exponentially more chemical residues on your food now then there was 20 years ago.

I would suggest watching or reading the botany of desire, it explains the entire thing.

 

[Betterhaff]

You are missing the point, I am not talking about the plant itself and how I can be cloned year after year, I am talking about the traits a certain plant passes on as it ages. Does the genetics of the offspring sway from better to worse as a plant ages.

I get that a plant can be cloned infinitely but how this all came up was pondering if a breeding pair will pass on the same traits for decades or does it change as a plant gets older.

For example if a breeding pair produces excellent off spring in their first year of life, do they produce the same quality offspring 100 breedings and 20 years later if in between that time that have suffered from environmental hardship, illness, infestations , near death experiences etc...

People say some seed varieites were better 20 years ago and produced more winners, so if the same parents were used since then this would suggest that the traits change as age increases and health has gone up and down over the years. This is epigenetics, how environment, health and age alter outcomes.

Epigenetics is a relatively new field and most of it is concentrating on things at the cellular level. As to what affects it has on passing genetics through sexual reproduction I don’t know.

I understand what you’re asking…as clones age does this affect their reproductive capabilities as to the genetic info they are able to contribute? That’s a tough one because of the nature of the canna biz and prohibition. Not much research able to be done and a breeder is not likely to tell if parent stock was lost or not.

There have also been people saying the longer they asexually produce crops the quality degrades although there have been others that have said not.

 

[englishrick]

I wrote a thread years ago about epicgenetics. I truly love this subject

I believe clones are eternal,,,,but pathogens and environmental factors can and do cause smp's (single point mutations)

With the appropriate genetic material it is possible to "reset" a clone to its original genetic form as coding errors prefer to correct themselves similar to how smear tests sometimes show abnormal cells but later correct themselves,,. Cloning from the very tips can help with isolation and original growth profile.

Harpin is interesting,,,it does not act directly on disease organism, nor does it alter the DNA of treated plants, but instead activates a natural defense mechanism in the host plant, referred to as systemic acquired resistance (SAR). This active ingredient is currently the only broad-spectrum, proteinaceous elicitor of SAR commercially available. Harpin is effective against certain viral diseases for which there are no other controls or resistant plant varieties. It also protects against soil-borne pathogens and pests, such as certain nematodes and fungal diseases. In addition to its ability to protect plants against diseases, Harpin protein also reduces infestations of selected insects and enhances plant growth, general vigor, and yield of many crops.

 

[Arf]

I wrote a thread years ago about epicgenetics. I truly love this subject

I believe clones are eternal,,,,but pathogens and environmental factors can and do cause smp's (single point mutations)

With the appropriate genetic material it is possible to "reset" a clone to its original genetic form as coding errors prefer to correct themselves similar to how smear tests sometimes show abnormal cells but later correct themselves,,. Cloning from the very tips can help with isolation and original growth profile.

Harpin is interesting,,,it does not act directly on disease organism, nor does it alter the DNA of treated plants, but instead activates a natural defense mechanism in the host plant, referred to as systemic acquired resistance (SAR). This active ingredient is currently the only broad-spectrum, proteinaceous elicitor of SAR commercially available. Harpin is effective against certain viral diseases for which there are no other controls or resistant plant varieties. It also protects against soil-borne pathogens and pests, such as certain nematodes and fungal diseases. In addition to its ability to protect plants against diseases, Harpin protein also reduces infestations of selected insects and enhances plant growth, general vigor, and yield of many crops.

There is a good book called Mendel's Demon - by Mark Ridley
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2000/oct/28/scienceandnature

It explains why sex is needed by complex lifeforms, and clones don't work long term. Sex is the error correcting mechanism for DNA, clones get transcription errors over time with no error correction.

 

[englishrick]

Yeh I agree sex is one way to correct coding errors.

cloning is one way of preservation. I would not say it's a bad way to preserve a genome, but to really preserve things both cloning and sexual reproduction is the best way. If coding errors happen in prized clones and the only original genetic material available is in seed form then by all means use it to create a new prized clone. But at the end of the day. No clone no weed

 

[englishrick]

Il defo check that book out. Thanks for the reference,,,,I wonder what he says about xx chromosome breeding.

Thanks man

 

[englishrick]

Some coding errors don't correct themselves and when original genetic material is not available I guess the original profile is lost

 

[idiit]

Some coding errors don't correct themselves and when original genetic material is not available I guess the original profile is lost

there's a person (he/she) named pattie brassard that has a remedy to the above quoted perspective. he has an iq up in the stratosphere. the us military hired him and he ended up writing the computer software for a bunch of top secret military programs. he has lots of utube videos where he enters top secret places like CERN in Switzerland and goes straight into their top secret control room. he also has videos where he enters top secret satellites and turns on and directs their cameras. he explains that he wrote the software so he can get into these places. doubt it if you want or before doubting it actually watch the videos. I have seen over 10 of these videos and you can see him actually go in and do this stuff.

pattie says salmiac allows dna to reprogram itself back to its healthy original condition.

you can get pure food grade salmiac lots of places in the world except usa (banned).
^^ http://oxfordchemserve.com/ammonium-chloride-salmiac-food-grade-500-g/

our purchase couldn't be completed
There's a problem with the merchant's PayPal account. Please try again later.

^ banned usa

you can get salmiac (salmiak) licorice and I take salmiac licorice every day for the salmiac. tasty stuff. some ppl are salmiac licuorice fanatics.

^

1-16 of 119 results for "salmiak licorice"

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_16?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=salmiak+licorice&sprefix=salmiak+licorice%2Caps%2C138&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Asalmiak+licorice


pattie brassard asserts that there are two different types of ammonium chloride and you need the correct type. the salmiak licorice uses the correct type. the above link to European laboratory produced food grade salmiac is the correct type.

 

[bluntmassa]

You are missing the point, I am not talking about the plant itself and how I can be cloned year after year, I am talking about the traits a certain plant passes on as it ages. Does the genetics of the offspring sway from better to worse as a plant ages.

I get that a plant can be cloned infinitely but how this all came up was pondering if a breeding pair will pass on the same traits for decades or does it change as a plant gets older.

For example if a breeding pair produces excellent off spring in their first year of life, do they produce the same quality offspring 100 breedings and 20 years later if in between that time that have suffered from environmental hardship, illness, infestations , near death experiences etc...

People say some seed varieites were better 20 years ago and produced more winners, so if the same parents were used since then this would suggest that the traits change as age increases and health has gone up and down over the years. This is epigenetics, how environment, health and age alter outcomes.

I would think 20 years ago I would have found some of the best then to try finding a new keeper in the same single pack of seeds yeah I might think the parents are different since I'm judging a mother from 19 years ago. Only problem is how many actually have the same cut? Other than Amnesia Haze anyway but there is a reason she is all over Holland and I'm sure it will take a bit of seeds to find a replacement. But the Santa Cruz Haze in Blue Dream happens to be SSH just like Amnesia according to DNA testing. Apparently people in California love SSH too just a little more when they are told it has no relation that it's new hip Santa Cruz Haze.

I would not believe every fishing story of the one who got away so easily if they had it it would be held like Amnesia Haze today.

Some newer shit does have more potential though as it's been worked for 20 years only really good reason to go back to the classics is different mothers or breeding. I say mothers because the shit out today is the same few strains bottlenecked so unique mothers are possible and why wouldn't you breed them? With all the hermies in OG to GSC I don't have much interest in breeding them I prefer my weed seedless and that doesn't mean 1 seed per 1/8th hell I found 2 seeds in about a gram of GSC a friend gave me it was pretty good weed but I would not grow the seeds that is just asking for more hermies and I'm not going to spend 5 years breeding the hermies out. Some shit is better left alone the original GSC lost fame mighty quick anyways so she can't be that special as something truly unique will stand out like Amnesia Haze.

All comes down to your goal just want bud well fems do the trick. You want to breed something great well the genetics are available.

 

[idiit]

Amnesia Core Cut, not a pure Sativa but still a nice Plant. Both Plants are the exact same cut, the only difference is, the Plant on the left side was produced with Tissue Culture and the right one with a conventional cloning method!

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=326079&page=41

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Castles in the Haze

Castles in the Haze

As many of you know, Nevil is a good friend of mine. He sent me seeds long ago. This cross is NH21 x Mango haze x Gorilla Glue4 x Headband


https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=69892&pictureid=1666397




Im in Cali and it is still going outdoors

 

[Burt]

Nevil is a true breeding machine
Sam is a preservationist who accidentally admitted to nevil how
Sk#1 was accidentally created
Fascinating reading for sure