MASSIVE OUTDOOR GROW

[antimatter]

Interesting thread, ive read through it entirely but haven't had any reason to comment, but one thing I think should be understood is that growing 500lbs outdoor doesn't = tons of money, distribution is a totally different story and there's a lot of flip sides to it, this is more true to Canada if anything its obviously different in areas with more Scarcity of pot like Eastern US where Julian is doing business,

for example in BC:
theres soooo much pot and this is the problem people wont just go and buy outdoor, if you have 500 lbs and theres 100 other people with 5 pounds and this guy is say coming from Alberta to buy this 500 lbs he isn't gonna buy your 500 lbs unless its a fucking gemmm, and chances are those 5lbs grown by those 100 other people are probably gonna be better quality and better trimmed than your 500 lbs that you grew all by yourself with maybe a few other people helping. Another flipside is that 5lbs of outdoor even if its awesome is only gonna get $1600-$1800 but who knows maybe this guy will rather buy this 500 lbs you grew for a cheaper price , so now your saying well selling 500 lbs at once is crazy since theres gonna be a huge price drop in bulk and alot more risk, so i'll just sell it a few lbs at a time all year but thats the thing these guys that come from some place don't just buy outdoor year round they come early buy up all the best shit and while your trimming your 500 lbs... that guy just went off to South America to lounge on the beach.. so now your sitting on all this pot and you can't sell it .. so why cant you sell it? because people would rather buy indoor and theres enough around that they dont have to buy your 500 lbs of outdoor.

NOWW.. indoor price right now is $2400 a lb which is pretty dam good but pot is like fucking fashion so your dank shit might not sell because some dude is growing 500 lbs of Indoor OG Kush and moving it through your connection whoaa.. that sucks doesn't it??? okk so you change your strain but than fashion changes so SHITT.. oh and on top of it all, it better be the most crystaliest hardest shit around, and they dont give a fuck if its organic if it doesn't look like what they want and, even if its 30% THC and makes you see god there not gonna buy it.

so the moral of the story..

GROW THE HARDEST TIGHTEST STICKIEST nuggets around and if its outdoor MAKE SURE ITS EARLY so you can actually sell it but fuck some of that early weed looks like shit so do your research..Remember this is not true for everywhere but when there is an abundance of certain goods, even if its illegal people tend to pick and choose so you gotta stand out and be better than the rest...Im pretty new to this stuff just like a lot of you but I know enough people to learn of this shocking reality which definitely makes you wanna

 

[Julian]

Well.......covered very early...basic supply and demand, quality and the more one produces the less it's worth unless some sort of control implemented/imposed on things....(which could be sometimes people competing, and would be better off sealing it all up and storing for another time if volume...but that's all green economics 101....

I do think most people lose focus and less attention to quality (trimming, cure) as volume goes up.....for many reasons......heavy workload tend to make people lose focus on quality and just want to get it all done.......I think a mistake......



Hope all are well and I'm starting to get the spring bug....looking at supplies (thinking about running AN outdoor line, if anything irrigated maybe indoor line, maybe both....)

Going to be doing fem runs and utilizing approaches as mentioned above and try and keep separate........(target for AF fems is 1MM....anyone who has made AF stock welcome to give input on what to expect per plant...starting to run ideas and calculations to hit target....might have to combine couple runs......thinking somewhere along the lines of 2,000 fems.....maybe a smaller M/F run to hit.....(not going to buy at those prices 4,000 M/F AF's.....out of principle.....)

Starting to get some more solid ideas for larger south things...going to run many thing, keep them all labeled (rows, maybe every row a different thing.....lot of longer finishers, etc........)

Hope all are coming along......preparing......I'm getting there........(seed runs kind of annoy me......won't take pleasure in couple thousand AF's just for stock........just the principle......ie: Running numbers.....no product to show for it, etc......(of course.....stock (seed) is priceless, so.......something to show, but, not immediate, etc.....)

Greenhouses been discussed also.........did a lot of research...found very interesting...(larger commercial installations......converting existing facilities, etc........saw an existing operation that was several covered acres, but, is a profitable operation, so....doesn't make financial sense.....)


Year might end up being some serious, serious hit and runs in different places.....(would be happier if could do initial AF run early for stock and then get a quick one in to see some money out of it quicker......)

All going to anything is possible and plans can change anywhere along the way........people always tend to approach many things as "fixed"......nothing is........can even change after well underway.....

 

[Mr. Stinky]

i am currently doing fem seed runs...auto's as well as semi-autos. when i have something of use to post, ill put it up....and let you know when i do. only in day 6 of 12/12 so far, so not much to contribute. ill be shooting for 20 lbs from auto's, stretched out in weekly increments over 2 months. should be able to accomplish most on my own, leaving the help for the fall, and security as well...dont like fingers in the till with 2 months out yet

 

[Julian]

Well, specific interest was rough idea as to how much/many seed per.......but if doing fem runs would also be interested in procedure utilizing, application (how and when) and such.....(success of stock and what have you of course down the road, so....)

I would think 20 would be extremely manageable, especially if doing multiple rounds..(z per would be 320....16' x 20' in one shot...1/2 per?....2 rounds....or one at 20' x 30's roughly, etc, etc, and on and on.......)

(Of course, I don't believe in firm numbers, but, we always have to have some sort of rough ones for a starting point, baseline, etc......)

10 weeks?....small?......a 20' x 30' nothing which would concern me...especially depending on the "backdrop" your working with..........(Lot of people talk about dirt and mud issues.....could do them straight into grassy area, which would aid in stealth, etc....control dirt, etc.....contribute to overall visibility issues, etc..........)




Of note (Lost train of thought above), is saw a partner recently haven't seen since fall (I've been out of town, busy, etc, to find that he still has stuff hanging....(of interest to people regarding dry, clip, cure,....times, procedure, speed, etc......)

I mentioned earlier another guy who had stuff bagged still around this time..(which he paid attention to, of course.....)

So....February...guy has stuff still hanging .....I walked through, took a look....bitched for a little while , and told em "fuck, I'm gonna take this if you don't get to it"

I pulled some down.......bagged it up (carefully... was brittle), tossed a couple tortillas in and sealed it up, and, next day?...boom.....I'm back to smoking the hardcore and have some nice ps .........

Soooooooo..............

Worse case scenario.....I mean......while we all should get to everything and get it done........there are many ways to deal with things when overwhelmed by volume.....

(I'm a "get it all done, get it all finished" kind of guy......and see no reason for anyone to have anything unfinished....mmm....4 months later?.....but......is what it is.......(I'm taking it all if I see him next week and space not cleaned and everything bagged up........)

Curiosities sake:
Bagged, sealed, tortillas......overnight.....
Next day was all very moist......started trimming....while trimming and out of course dried a little more......then sealed back up....and on and on.....

 

[Julian]

Note: 2 car garage roughly a 20' x 22' or so......(440 at 1 per sq. ft.)

Given the speed....footprint...exposure....footprint the size of a garage "in the whole scheme of things" not significant....

Might even end up doing large space this season....will get some pics up if I do for illustration..... (If seed run ready with enough time left, will do quick large hit and run somewhere and in process get to test stock.....)

 

[antimatter]

Well.......covered very early...basic supply and demand, quality and the more one produces the less it's worth unless some sort of control implemented/imposed on things....(which could be sometimes people competing, and would be better off sealing it all up and storing for another time if volume...but that's all green economics 101....

I do think most people lose focus and less attention to quality (trimming, cure) as volume goes up.....for many reasons......heavy workload tend to make people lose focus on quality and just want to get it all done.......I think a mistake......



Hope all are well and I'm starting to get the spring bug....looking at supplies (thinking about running AN outdoor line, if anything irrigated maybe indoor line, maybe both....)

Going to be doing fem runs and utilizing approaches as mentioned above and try and keep separate........(target for AF fems is 1MM....anyone who has made AF stock welcome to give input on what to expect per plant...starting to run ideas and calculations to hit target....might have to combine couple runs......thinking somewhere along the lines of 2,000 fems.....maybe a smaller M/F run to hit.....(not going to buy at those prices 4,000 M/F AF's.....out of principle.....)

Starting to get some more solid ideas for larger south things...going to run many thing, keep them all labeled (rows, maybe every row a different thing.....lot of longer finishers, etc........)

Hope all are coming along......preparing......I'm getting there........(seed runs kind of annoy me......won't take pleasure in couple thousand AF's just for stock........just the principle......ie: Running numbers.....no product to show for it, etc......(of course.....stock (seed) is priceless, so.......something to show, but, not immediate, etc.....)

Greenhouses been discussed also.........did a lot of research...found very interesting...(larger commercial installations......converting existing facilities, etc........saw an existing operation that was several covered acres, but, is a profitable operation, so....doesn't make financial sense.....)


Year might end up being some serious, serious hit and runs in different places.....(would be happier if could do initial AF run early for stock and then get a quick one in to see some money out of it quicker......)

All going to anything is possible and plans can change anywhere along the way........people always tend to approach many things as "fixed"......nothing is........can even change after well underway.....

Funny that you mention that, I actually just finished a fem Auto Ak47 run and got lots of seeded bud, just letting it dry than im gonna crush it up and get all the seeds out, I used the CS method and just started spraying the earliest female everyday once I Identified its sex than once it had balls all over it I stopped spraying (sprayed in the dark period, brewed 9 hours, used light proof spray bottle), seeds were given an extra 2 weeks to finish up (probably a good idea to spray more than one so you got a couple putting out pollen and I dont plan on using the hermie seed just to keep the inbreeding down). Ive been thinking about using some time release granular fertilizer 6-12-12 that lasts 2 months and just native soil for the outdoor. Not really sure how its gonna turn out, I wont get to start until sometime in June because of the weather but that's ok its still earlier than anything else available.

 

[Julian]

I'd be curious as to success of resulting stock, because understanding of procedure to begin treatment pre flower....but of course af's not the luxury of having vegging with pre flowers for identification in advance....

I'd be curious yield (seed/#'s) per plant.

Diet and feeding....I read quite a bit about suggested schedules but have been doing mini's for years, so, have my own ideas as to diet..........ie: smaller plant eats less.....depending what one uses depletion in soil........size relating to depletion.....how fast.....etc, etc......(plus in past I always have and will start inside first.....and most likely would with the af's also....(large trays of 600,start...week or two, rapid planting at prepped site.....)




On that note I think I have secured a spot locally (well.....), will know within the week...some talking being done......one have used before...(on a different note as time goes on, one will build up a number of spots and people....this one hasn't been used in a while.......it's quite a big one, and, crew in mind going to be a total of 6....(Me, 2 trainee's been working on, and 2 veterans who don't fuck around.....ie: Back my ass up with the newbies and keep them in line ....)

Just found out looking good....and, extremely happy.........when direction established.......well ....

Going to do large AF fem spots.....and going to spread it out (early, late...may change and we may decide to just get in and plant heavy early July for more mid sized ones, quicker.....)

Also, as mentioned....going to go...well, at least a portion with the AN HH outdoor line......(and crystals possible mixed in with coco bricks but checking on loads of chicken manure which I always liked......chicken manure, worm castings, and my dry mix with crystals always very happy...)...initially planned on couple tons.....really not sure.......hard to go with something...even partially.....have been happy with my mixes,but......thinking at the moment....makes a little less work.....(and is the difference in price or production worth in the end to all extra work involved.....)

Wish I could sit down and run some numbers.......for all I know.....my own mixes might be pretty expensive(or....they might not be....individual ingredients in bulk.....I would hope manufacturers get it and make it for cheaper ......)

Not going to use "we" stock.......a mini run?.....possibly...but, full force one shot large not going to go with unknown/proven stock....have no idea what it is....(all quality.....but can't state 100% it's all solid and stable and will have no surprises......)..

We'll see.......but....lot possible and good crew.....(I usually don't have 6 from start through finish.....might have different people at different times...sometimes only me and 1....checking, inspecting, little work...etc....sometimes 3-4 for planting.....sometimes more for cutting.....etc, etc.........(ie: 6 full season means to me 6 people planting full season ....)

Very pleased.......who knows....have several things in mind but big ones........ya know............

(Which is good because I was coming close to securing another location local and another not close to local.......)

We're getting there........90 days more or less...........

 

[antimatter]

Ya I was really not sure if it was gonna work because there was no treatment with preflowers in veg it was like once they showed preflowers they were flowering and getting treated.
In regards to how much stock i'll have once all the seeds are extracted im not sure because in a bud the size of my pinky that I didn't think had any seeds in it I got 30 and, said to myself "theres noway in hell im extracting seeds when this stuff is wet, its getting dried and crushed.
I have no idea what the feeding is gonna be like outdoors all I know is that there 18-24" tall and spots ive picked have moist soil year round because ofunderground water table is pretty high.
Id like to grow organic outdoors but I don't think I could with all the deer, elk, moose, black bears, so chemical time release 2 months is whats gonna have to be used, not to sure yet on how many ml/tbsp to use for a 2 foot plant but i'll figure that out.
One thing that makes me wonder is if its really worth it to grow an autoflower instead of a regular early strain, since so many more plants have to be planted, seems like more work for less return but 4-5 foot plants stand out alot more and might not give as good of a product as an ak47 auto and simply saving the plants from having to be around when the hunters are out is worth it, drilling 2 gallon holes is faster and easier than a 4 or 5 gallon hole so its really just more stock, but that means more 1-2 week starts.

 

[Hasanen]

Holy shit.

 

[SatoriSOG]

julian, what kind of holes would you use for the AF's?

direct in ground? 1'x1's? 8"x1's?

and also what kind of feeding?

 

[Julian]

Ya I was really not sure if it was gonna work because there was no treatment with preflowers in veg it was like once they showed preflowers they were flowering and getting treated.

Well, people are producing fem AF's, this is certain...(although haven't really seen too much of people who have run them discussing results, etc....)

From procedure and failures discussed various places, application times seem to be an issue regarding certain methods, and, in the end, might lend itself more to others......

(I don't really have too much of a problem trying various methods....varying approach.......at all.........my issue is with time and space wasted.......every sq. ft. any of us has to work with, no matter how much that might be is precious....all adds up in the end........)

I'm still going over a lot of stuff.....still haven't committed (started op and begun), so.....I don't really see it as an issue....applications can just be varied.......still going over things myself.....we'll see where it all goes.....

In regards to how much stock i'll have once all the seeds are extracted im not sure because in a bud the size of my pinky that I didn't think had any seeds in it I got 30 and, said to myself "theres noway in hell im extracting seeds when this stuff is wet, its getting dried and crushed.

All the stock I have ever made has gotten 100% germ rates.....which was just treating it like I would straight product....dried, clipped, some time on it..(of course less clipping when strictly for stock if any at all)......Not claiming a superior expertise.....just has how it's always happened......

You'd of course want to do it dried....

Id like to grow organic outdoors but I don't think I could with all the deer, elk, moose, black bears, so chemical time release 2 months is whats gonna have to be used, not to sure yet on how many ml/tbsp to use for a 2 foot plant but i'll figure that out.

Lot of people use organic with wildlife....all depends on what your using and how applied.....lot of info everywhere regarding different approaches and different ingredients.....

One thing that makes me wonder is if its really worth it to grow an autoflower instead of a regular early strain, since so many more plants have to be planted, seems like more work for less return but 4-5 foot plants stand out alot more and might not give as good of a product as an ak47 auto and simply saving the plants from having to be around when the hunters are out is worth it, drilling 2 gallon holes is faster and easier than a 4 or 5 gallon hole so its really just more stock, but that means more 1-2 week starts.

Spot dictates the approach.

Each and everything thing carries with it it's own set of advantages and disadvantages.......(and people seem to look at many things in different ways.......so...)

AF's to me present a ready solution to utilizing many locations which just can't be done with larger, or even later/mini's....(because, of course, mini's still harvest season.....eradication efforts in full force, etc......

I see them as holding a specific place, for specific purposes......

I've personally been waiting for quite a while for selection to increase......quality to increase, etc.......

(And if anyone curious about which I will be running?...........well......all of them ....have found 6-7 producers.......maybe 20-30 different things.....so......going to run them all...............toyed with the idea of just an initial m/f out cross pollination.......among all.....but, then back to m/f and then depending on what it is and who made it and how they did, results might not be 100% uniform, etc.........

I'd rather just buy the fuckin stock......but......I don't see the costs as reasonable.......so....matter of principle.....

 

[antimatter]

julian, what kind of holes would you use for the AF's?

direct in ground? 1'x1's? 8"x1's?

Length x width x height (use inches) = volume (cubic inches) than to change cubic inches to gallons, you just need to know 1 gallon = 231 cubic inches

example. drilled hole 6" x 6" x 15" = 540 cubic inches ---> 540/231 = 2.33 gallons.

 

[antimatter]

Well, people are producing fem AF's, this is certain...(although haven't really seen too much of people who have run them discussing results, etc....)

From procedure and failures discussed various places, application times seem to be an issue regarding certain methods, and, in the end, might lend itself more to others......

(I don't really have too much of a problem trying various methods....varying approach.......at all.........my issue is with time and space wasted.......every sq. ft. any of us has to work with, no matter how much that might be is precious....all adds up in the end........)

I'm still going over a lot of stuff.....still haven't committed (started op and begun), so.....I don't really see it as an issue....applications can just be varied.......still going over things myself.....we'll see where it all goes.....

All the stock I have ever made has gotten 100% germ rates.....which was just treating it like I would straight product....dried, clipped, some time on it..(of course less clipping when strictly for stock if any at all)......Not claiming a superior expertise.....just has how it's always happened......

You'd of course want to do it dried....

Lot of people use organic with wildlife....all depends on what your using and how applied.....lot of info everywhere regarding different approaches and different ingredients.....

Spot dictates the approach.

Each and everything thing carries with it it's own set of advantages and disadvantages.......(and people seem to look at many things in different ways.......so...)

AF's to me present a ready solution to utilizing many locations which just can't be done with larger, or even later/mini's....(because, of course, mini's still harvest season.....eradication efforts in full force, etc......

I see them as holding a specific place, for specific purposes......

I've personally been waiting for quite a while for selection to increase......quality to increase, etc.......

(And if anyone curious about which I will be running?...........well......all of them ....have found 6-7 producers.......maybe 20-30 different things.....so......going to run them all...............toyed with the idea of just an initial m/f out cross pollination.......among all.....but, then back to m/f and then depending on what it is and who made it and how they did, results might not be 100% uniform, etc.........

I'd rather just buy the fuckin stock......but......I don't see the costs as reasonable.......so....matter of principle.....

The spot does dictate the method more than anything, ive looked at spots that get fantastic sun but I know that by July the soil will be completely dried out and theres no water nearby which is to bad since there fantastic spots, some spots have lots of water but by the time there ready for harvest there gonna be completely molded.

There are so many micro climates where im at, you really gotta know your area, if you don't have the right spot your gonna have to run tons of irrigation (lots of helis) and that is out of the question for me, watering alot of plants takes alot of time, work, and visits.

Im hoping for the best and expecting the worst, this is all experimental to me but the advantages seem to outweigh any disadvantages, I just want to harvest my crop I don't want to have to worry about hunters finding crops in september, early fall rains, helis spotting 6 foot plants. I dont like them but I know without a fence of fishing line any small plant will be deer food.

I wouldn't bother trying all the strains if there to low to the ground there gonna mold easily and get dirt splashed on the bud from the rain, I still worry that a 2 foot plant might mold.

 

[Julian]

julian, what kind of holes would you use for the AF's?

direct in ground? 1'x1's? 8"x1's?

and also what kind of feeding?

Depends what kind of spot.........my personal preferences are I have a couple spots in mind, and, good soil (grass for cover preferred),and, have been contemplating using 4" drill.......pellets to 4" hole....started inside like I always do...

As far as feeding......well, would depend on specifics.....would like to get in and treat entire areas lightly couple weeks before....I usually use same mix, little stronger at planting as I am using inside pre planting..(slightly stronger and more used over entire spot/hole.....

Minimal veg......same as mini's...which I've done many time..many ways....

Your spending minimal time in veg, so...I'd go light veg for prep and initial planting but spots and holes done in flowering....

Im hoping for the best and expecting the worst, this is all experimental to me but the advantages seem to outweigh any disadvantages, I just want to harvest my crop I don't want to have to worry about hunters finding crops in september, early fall rains, helis spotting 6 foot plants. I dont like them but I know without a fence of fishing line any small plant will be deer food.

I wouldn't bother trying all the strains if there to low to the ground there gonna mold easily and get dirt splashed on the bud from the rain, I still worry that a 2 foot plant might mold.

Well, I can tell you first hyand, having done mini's in great numbers over many years that, regarding mold, I've never seen any actually....as they've always been in completely open spots, and, as said many time.....my city mini's have always been absolute best quality overall....pure sun, good circulation because out in the open......

I've had mold concerns for a while, but that's for large dense patches at the absolute hottest and wettest times of year, so.......

I don't think expecting the worst is best approach, as I think any doubt colors one thoughts and performance........if everything is always done as it should be and nothing omitted due to ones preference not to.......there is never a reason anything shouldn't work.....

Should also be noted despite what many have said (and I don't doubt them at all)....I've yet to experience dirt or mud on any mini's....

Ever.

I'm sure anyone who has done them and made that statement isn't lying....I've just never experienced it.....

My city spots always fairly open, exposed dirt.......and when around vegetation...well, no......I think that the exact location and placement would have to determine that....but, as said...I've never had them and if possible I prefer grassy areas for small ones...helps with the backdrop....

Lack of moisture....holes can help.....prep (crystals) can help.....again...a lot of steps can be taken which give one that many less potential problems......

Note to above....areas where I would do 4" or so very nice soil.......might consider an 8" prepped before....as would enable a prep before....(ie: germ, go drill and treat.....week or more get them all done, etc.........

More solid and better spaced spots could in fact enable fencing, barriers, etc.....

Nah. Going to run everything available.....general consensus seems to be out will get a little better performance of course compared to in (size, stretch), so.....not concerned....

 

[antimatter]

Well, I can tell you first hand, having done mini's in great numbers over many years that, regarding mold, I've never seen any actually....as they've always been in completely open spots, and, as said many time.....my city mini's have always been absolute best quality overall....pure sun, good circulation because out in the open......

I've had mold concerns for a while, but that's for large dense patches at the absolute hottest and wettest times of year, so.......

I don't think expecting the worst is best approach, as I think any doubt colors one thoughts and performance........if everything is always done as it should be and nothing omitted due to ones preference not to.......there is never a reason anything shouldn't work.....

Should also be noted despite what many have said (and I don't doubt them at all)....I've yet to experience dirt or mud on any mini's....

Ever.

I'm sure anyone who has done them and made that statement isn't lying....I've just never experienced it.....

My city spots always fairly open, exposed dirt.......and when around vegetation...well, no......I think that the exact location and placement would have to determine that....but, as said...I've never had them and if possible I prefer grassy areas for small ones...helps with the backdrop....

Lack of moisture....holes can help.....prep (crystals) can help.....again...a lot of steps can be taken which give one that many less potential problems......

Note to above....areas where I would do 4" or so very nice soil.......might consider an 8" prepped before....as would enable a prep before....(ie: germ, go drill and treat.....week or more get them all done, etc.........

More solid and better spaced spots could in fact enable fencing, barriers, etc.....

Nah. Going to run everything available.....general consensus seems to be out will get a little better performance of course compared to in (size, stretch), so.....not concerned....

Mold is a major issue where im at, but I hope that only using open spots I can avoid it, another nice thing having a small plant is you can put a lot of plants in those open spots and not have to worry about having them spotted, gives you an extra benefit of more resistance to mold.

The dirt splashing was something I read on another forum but I think that probably was more spot related.

Not really sure how big the Af's get outdoors I was under the impression that they would be somewhat smaller because of not getting the 20/4 hour light that they prefer, but Ive seen alot pictures of people growing ins and out and theres been alot of variation so I got no idea, I think it all comes come to how much sun there getting, I think its a requirement that they get alot of sun, just wouldn't be worth growing them otherwise.

It would be pretty awesome to run a big AF outdoor plot in a backyard of a suburb home with a a decent size backyard thats got a hefty brick wall, to think 2 1/2 months cut it done by sometime in july, sure as hell would be alot less work than someone running 100 lights of indoor hauling in thousands of gallons of fuel all windows covered and diesel fumes coming out the roof, not to mention all the bales of sunshine mix and strange nightly activity..

 

[Julian]

Mold is a major issue where im at, but I hope that only using open spots I can avoid it, another nice thing having a small plant is you can put a lot of plants in those open spots and not have to worry about having them spotted, gives you an extra benefit of more resistance to mold.

An open, full sun spot with open circulation has never found me with mold, despite rainfall, humidity, on mini's between 1-2.5 feet.

Ever.

Not a gram.

The dirt splashing was something I read on another forum but I think that probably was more spot related.

That is the account of many people with AF's and mini's.

I've never had that so think spot and soil/ground dependent.

Not really sure how big the Af's get outdoors I was under the impression that they would be somewhat smaller because of not getting the 20/4 hour light that they prefer, but Ive seen alot pictures of people growing ins and out and theres been alot of variation so I got no idea, I think it all comes come to how much sun there getting, I think its a requirement that they get alot of sun, just wouldn't be worth growing them otherwise.

From what I have seen from all who have run them in and all who have run them out over time outside will have them finishing a little larger than inside.

I'd place 10-12 of direct sun against 20 indoor and sure different would not be too great, which would again be dependent upon climate....I'm sure 10hrs of Texas summer sun would more than equal 20hrs of 1k's....(anyone who questions this take your shirt off for 1hr in summer sun.....and take shirt off 1hr in room with 10k and see the difference........ (without any sunscreen....)

It should be noted as was discussed........regarding AF's, etc.......I've seen 5-6 maybe supplies with a total of maybe 20-30 different things......(might be more that I am unaware of)....I'm sure somewhere in there I will find a product which makes me happy....(saw an Amnesia Haze one somewhere which interested me.....)

It would be pretty awesome to run a big AF outdoor plot in a backyard of a suburb home with a a decent size backyard thats got a hefty brick wall, to think 2 1/2 months cut it done by sometime in july, sure as hell would be alot less work than someone running 100 lights of indoor hauling in thousands of gallons of fuel all windows covered and diesel fumes coming out the roof, not to mention all the bales of sunshine mix and strange nightly activity..

Apples and oranges, (have to assume 100k x 6 rounds in 12 months, call it 1 per to estimate low....)

I'd feel much more comfortable and think the same could be pulled from an AF/mini run on 5-10 acre estate property....

I've done mini's in more backyards than I can count, and, sometimes, with serious numbers.......

Apples and oranges.....(AF/Mini greater benefit is anytime season run, and speed.....)

Could do a 20' x 60' dog run, 3' fence installed for cheap and quick on larger property and have all sightlines completely blocked and pull 3 rounds in a spring/summer/fall and pull several hundred k fairly...(depending on numbers.....depending on prices could be over 500k.....which is not bad for 6 months work....)

 

[Julian]

Some operational and efficiency notes:

Was having many discussions this week with many people regarding efficiency....

Let's start with a good reasonable example:
A 10 ' x 10' foot spot (which if no height greater than 3 feet could be done in even most major metropolitan yards with the smallest degree of privacy.....

Mini's? (AF/Mini's same for general discussion of speed and height)

Right timing, right placement, right strain?....could get as many as every 6".....(have to be all fem, spacing doesn't allow sexing, etc).....

Call it even 1/4 z per and 3k per p and the average person is still looking at some good money for 4 weeks risk....(last 4 weeks flower).....

Reader should notice my choice of words.....

"weeks of risk"....

Weeks of work?..........it's hard work, that's a given........but work's really never the problem, now is it? ...

It's the risk and exposure....

Basics are utilizing every sq. inch possible......(same applies to rooms......I've always noticed people using far too much space in a location for aisles, walkways, working space, etc.......)

Smaller one is the more important it is actually.......

(I've been guilty of same sometimes.......out.......I reflect back on certain spots, at certain locations, etc......and think would have been possible to do much more.......wouldn't really have made a difference......sometimes a matter of landowner not wanting more there, etc........

Which leads to multiple locations......to multiple ops......consulting, etc......

I once knew a guy who had a business which only made him about 1-2k a month, max........didn't really see the use in it.......

Couple years later he had 40 of them..........

There have been times when I was going heavy where would have indoor going everywhere, multiple outs, etc........

Big?.......nah, not all........at all........some even quite smaller.......

I was just talking to someone this week about expenses, and, when discussing mine, he noted I quoted everything by the year...(not "500 a month for this".........6k a yr.......not 1000 a month....12k a year.........)

Average person could do a large number of small, low risk things and still come out pretty heavy end of year.......3p's from this........1 from there.......2 from him.......3 from there.......etc.......(and so on and so on it goes........to any level one chooses.........)

I had a lot of partnerships with varying roles........same deal......some from there, more from there, etc...minimal risk and exposure for anyone, etc........same with out's.....but I favor out due to weight....

(Last season good example but numerous problems as earlier.....but, should have been a great year.....had several large locations with many spots in all of them......)

Point being efficiency.....multiples......utilization of space....etc...

The same way positive results can be multiplied.......money is the same .....

I know for a lot of people 60-80k season/yr can/would be something extremely significant in their life........

To bring it full circle......60-80k?......think one could pull that from outdoor only and a 10 x 10 spot in a fair climate ....

Lot of people seem to have trouble shifting trains of thought.......relating one aspect to another......(not an insult......lot of people that way.....I have been...sometimes still am until I catch myself......went through it the other day actually ......)

Point is always the same.....
_______ can be a little, or it can be a lot......(spot, funds, etc)...

All depends what you do with it.....

space.......time.......money...........efficiency (or lack of) of all....insignificant "small" things can have dramatic effect.......(example applies to everything........prep of any sort great example....any and all tasks regardless of size having a direct effect on yield, which translates into money, which is channeled positively translates into even more, etc.......

For a while I would take business income......throw it right into trading accounts....from trading accounts into something else.....then from something else into something again, and so on and so on.......

Efficiency...............anything and everything.....all adds up......(and sometimes big time.....)

 

[antimatter]

It always amazes me reading posts like that, I feel this thread is the most important thing ive ever read, keep it simple but understand every aspect in order to keep it that way, theres a hard way and than theres a smart way.

 

[micropro]

I can't keep up with ya'll, but hey, nice work!

 

[G0d5hand]

Some operational and efficiency notes:

Was having many discussions this week with many people regarding efficiency....

Let's start with a good reasonable example:
A 10 ' x 10' foot spot (which if no height greater than 3 feet could be done in even most major metropolitan yards with the smallest degree of privacy.....

Mini's? (AF/Mini's same for general discussion of speed and height)

Right timing, right placement, right strain?....could get as many as every 6".....(have to be all fem, spacing doesn't allow sexing, etc).....

Call it even 1/4 z per and 3k per p and the average person is still looking at some good money for 4 weeks risk....(last 4 weeks flower).....

Reader should notice my choice of words.....

"weeks of risk"....

Weeks of work?..........it's hard work, that's a given........but work's really never the problem, now is it? ...

It's the risk and exposure....

Basics are utilizing every sq. inch possible......(same applies to rooms......I've always noticed people using far too much space in a location for aisles, walkways, working space, etc.......)

Smaller one is the more important it is actually.......

(I've been guilty of same sometimes.......out.......I reflect back on certain spots, at certain locations, etc......and think would have been possible to do much more.......wouldn't really have made a difference......sometimes a matter of landowner not wanting more there, etc........

Which leads to multiple locations......to multiple ops......consulting, etc......

I once knew a guy who had a business which only made him about 1-2k a month, max........didn't really see the use in it.......

Couple years later he had 40 of them..........

There have been times when I was going heavy where would have indoor going everywhere, multiple outs, etc........

Big?.......nah, not all........at all........some even quite smaller.......

I was just talking to someone this week about expenses, and, when discussing mine, he noted I quoted everything by the year...(not "500 a month for this".........6k a yr.......not 1000 a month....12k a year.........)

Average person could do a large number of small, low risk things and still come out pretty heavy end of year.......3p's from this........1 from there.......2 from him.......3 from there.......etc.......(and so on and so on it goes........to any level one chooses.........)

I had a lot of partnerships with varying roles........same deal......some from there, more from there, etc...minimal risk and exposure for anyone, etc........same with out's.....but I favor out due to weight....

(Last season good example but numerous problems as earlier.....but, should have been a great year.....had several large locations with many spots in all of them......)

Point being efficiency.....multiples......utilization of space....etc...

The same way positive results can be multiplied.......money is the same .....

I know for a lot of people 60-80k season/yr can/would be something extremely significant in their life........

To bring it full circle......60-80k?......think one could pull that from outdoor only and a 10 x 10 spot in a fair climate ....

Lot of people seem to have trouble shifting trains of thought.......relating one aspect to another......(not an insult......lot of people that way.....I have been...sometimes still am until I catch myself......went through it the other day actually ......)

Point is always the same.....
_______ can be a little, or it can be a lot......(spot, funds, etc)...

All depends what you do with it.....

space.......time.......money...........efficiency (or lack of) of all....insignificant "small" things can have dramatic effect.......(example applies to everything........prep of any sort great example....any and all tasks regardless of size having a direct effect on yield, which translates into money, which is channeled positively translates into even more, etc.......

For a while I would take business income......throw it right into trading accounts....from trading accounts into something else.....then from something else into something again, and so on and so on.......

Efficiency...............anything and everything.....all adds up......(and sometimes big time.....)

Sorry to ask (i have been reading alot but not enough) But the top part of this I have. I was wondering what you mean for minis to take four weeks. I have that amount of land to use but am missing somthing I feel.