Many Forest Gorillas vs Several Forest and Well Tended Plants

[pipeline]

hey Tricomonolith! Thats cool! Where do you get Silver thiosulfate STS and how much is it? What rate is it applied? Is it just a single application? What point in the growth/flowering cycle is it applied to cause a plant to self pollinate?


Socioecologist at Oregon CBD Seeds uses it for his breeding program!


Check out the talk he gave at UCLA about his hemp breeding business! https://youtu.be/lNDPxXiKPnI


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=330712&page=35

 

[TychoMonolyth]

hey Tricomonolith! Thats cool! Where do you get Silver thiosulfate STS and how much is it? What rate is it applied? Is it just a single application? What point in the growth/flowering cycle is it applied to cause a plant to self pollinate?


Socioecologist at Oregon CBD Seeds uses it for his breeding program!


Check out the talk he gave at UCLA about his hemp breeding business! https://youtu.be/lNDPxXiKPnI


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=330712&page=35

100% SODIUM THIOSULFATE Pentahydrate 4 oz ounce Package Na2O3S2 aquariums Hypo ($12)
This is way too much. I have enough for a lifetime. Go for the 2oz size.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-SODIUM-THIOSULFATE-Pentahydrate-4-oz-ounce-Package-Na2O3S2-aquariums-Hypo/302083025463?epid=914453710&hash=item46558d2a37:g:CbwAAOSw5utajLmI&frcectupt=true


Silver Nitrate-50g-over 99.8% purity ($60)
Again, it's way too much. Get the 25g for $32
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Silver-Nitrate-50g-over-99-8-purity/322358671461?hash=item4b0e12f865:g:QigAAOSw44BYUDfO

Now you get to pretend you're Walter White. I mean...
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Don't be intimidated by this.
I can't make a cake, but I did it

1. You have to make two solutions (A & B), and store them seperately. They'll last a long time.

2. You'll have to combine a bit of both, and then add water. This will be the stuff you spray on your plant.


I posted this in another thread, but here it is again.
=========================================================================
Making STS feminization foliar spray

You will be preparing two solutions, then combining them both to make STS, then combining the STS with water for your foliar spray.

You need:

1. Silver nitrate - AgNO3 (only expensive part of STS)
   Can be found on ebay or in a chem shop
   .
2. Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate - Na2S2O3-5H2O
   Can be found on ebay or in a chem shop.
   .
3. Distilled or RO water, kitchen or medical gloves, plastic syringes, plastic bottles, spray bottle.
   Plastic measuring syringes can be found in any drug store.

Solution - A - (USE GLOVES - AgNO3 will stain your hands black for months).

Add 1.7g AgNO3 to 100ml of RO water.
- Don’t use metal objects – only plastic or glass!
- It's light sensitive. Avoid exposing this solution to sunlight.
- Should be stored in a cool dark place or in a dark plastic or dark glass bottle.
- Can be stored for a long time.
​

Solution - B

Add 9.92g to Na2S2O3-5H2O to 400ml of RO water.
- Is not light sensitive but can be stored in a cool dark place or in the dark plastic bottle.
- Can be stored for a long time.
​

Solution A and B can be stored for a long time in a dark place (6-12 months).



STS Solution (Use a plastic syringe for this. )

- 5ml of Solution A, and
- 20 ml of Solution B

Add 20 ml of Solution B to a glass measuring cup or container.
Slowly stir 5ml of Solution A into B. (plastic coffee stir stick works)
​

The STS Solution is not as stable as solutions A and B separate and should be used as fast as possible once combined.
(Some say it can last for months if stored in a dark container in the fridge.)


STS FOLIAR SPRAY

The STS Solution must be diluted with water or you will burn your plants.

STS Solution to water ratio can be 1:2, 1:3 or 1:4 (STS:Water).
​

Examples
1:2 = 1 part STS and 2 parts water [10ml STS + 20ml water] (way too strong)
1:2 = 1 part STS and 2 parts water [25ml STS + 50ml water] (way too strong)

1:3 = 1 part STS and 3 parts water [10ml STS + 30ml water] (for stubborn strains)
1:3 = 1 part STS and 3 parts water [25ml STS + 75ml water] (for stubborn strains)

1:4 = 1 part STS and 4 parts water [15ml STS + 45ml water] (This is what you should use)
1:4 = 1 part STS and 4 parts water [25ml STS + 75ml water] (This is what you should use)

I used 1:3.5 because I'm a rebel.

Add a few drops of Dawn dish soap, yucca, or other "wetting agent" to your mix.


Use this final mixture for foliar spraying.
It is best to start with a concentration of 1:4 – if nothing happens use 1:3
Some strains are easy to herm – some not.

Use your STS foliar spray as soon as flowering starts. (when you see the first hairs)

- You're not going to smoke that weed, so spray it twice (I sprayed 3 times. 5 days between spraying.)
- Spray the flower and node. But don't go nuts on it.
The danger in spraying more than you should will produce tons of EMPTY pollen sacs.

- Watch for bananas or pollen sacs.
- Pollen will be female.
- Let the plant self pollinate and collect some pollen for other plants.
=========================================================================

Good luck.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

Selfing LSD-25 with STS for fem seed and pollen.

View Image
View Image

You guys on here keep teasing me. Greatest invention ever will be when I can spray something on my LSD and have it make me more!

At least you can do a spore print with mushrooms.

 

[BadTicket]

Growing from seed in a short season is tricky. I used to plant a lot thinking more is more, which is partly correct. But often it's a waste of seeds and effort. If you do one plant well, it will most likely be better than 2 half assed plants. But if you only have that one plant that's performing well, rippers might find it or animals could eat it.. Whatever happens, it's gone. In that case those two half assed plants will obviously be better.

So I'd say the answer is: Plant a bit more than you can process, focus on the grows that perform well and look like winners. You can usually tell winners from losers half way thru your season or so. Like a plant that starts flowering in the end the july/early august will most likely make it in time. But a plant that's still vegging in late august prolly won't. You might get something outta it, but it's still B-team stuff. So keep the starting line up happy, and the rest if you have time. Like a shitty movie that starts out bad, 9 times outta 10 will not get any better towards the end.

 

[PANIKZ]

 

[PANIKZ]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=72807&pictureid=1774846

 

[JustSumTomatoes]

You guys make my outdoor grows look like shit lol. Time to step my game up.

 

[PANIKZ]

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[TychoMonolyth]

God damn PANIKZ.... That's how you do it!

 

[marmarb]

Panikz what strains are they.

 

[pipeline]

Thanks for the info, Tycomonolyth! It would nice to have a feminized crop, so I don't waste precious space in the garden. I probably won't end up using it until later on in the future. What is it like growing out the offspring? Is there a risk of hermaphrodism or males? Socioecologist said in his speech there was a male every 4000 plants when they feminized.

 

[TychoMonolyth]

XX is XX. When you feminize, you have ZERO male chromosomes, so it will absolutely be 100% female pollen. For a male to sneak in it would have to be either by divine intervention, or a male pollen snuck it's way into the grow on someone's clothes.

There is no such thing as a transgendered, or hermie pollen when you feminize a flower (But the politically correct crowd might try to argue that).

As I understand it (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong):
What will absolutely happen when you SELF a flower is many different phenos of that strain will emerge. So selfing a GG#4 will produce a crop of GG#4 with Chem’s Sister, Sour Dubb, and Chocolate Diesel expressions, and even older expressions from within the lineage. Which is why breeding can be so much fun. It's like a bag of candy with a wonderful surprise every once in a while. Personally, I would hope for a nice Chocolate Diesel to clone! But that's just hacking. Legit breeders know where they're heading and what they're going for.

Some of these phenos will immerge even in stabilized strains. I grew a crop GG#4, hopping for a Chocolate Diesel pheno. Alas, only two different "shapes" showed up. Christmas tree and a bush, but the buds were identical in every way.

If you use that same pollen on a different strain, you'll get the single GG#4 to cross over.

Look at PANIKZ 3rd RealGorillaSeeds picture above (Hoypare grew that field I believe). Notice the uniformity? That is a great example of stability in the strain.

 

[TychoMonolyth]

You guys make my outdoor grows look like shit lol. Time to step my game up.

Boy do I hear ya. The only thing that was remotely close were the 10 plants I put in a buddie's yard behind a coop in 50 year old chicken shit. It was fun watching him panic because they were getting really big. I didn't have the heart to tell him about the stretch. And boy.... did they ever. lol

 

[Ibechillin]

From what I understand S1 (first selfing) crosses behave similar to F1 offspring in reference to phenotype variation (depending on strain stability to begin with) and S2 is when you get the fractured phenotypes.

 

[pipeline]

Yeah I really enjoy growing from seed, seeing what pops up. My line is pretty uniform and getting more so, as I select each year. Its great medicine, not too overpowering, but excellent medical effect with distinct sweet afghan indica smoke.



For commercial medical cannabis production they generally do clones or regular seed I think. The selfing is being used by Oregon CBD seeds specifically in a breeding program to create true breeding lines with specific cannabinoid profiles to later join the lines and create a stable female cultivar.



A small or medium grower could use it to keep from having to do clones from a mother plant. Its nice to replenish the seedlot.



What kind of results would we see if a couple males from regular seed pollinated plants grow from feminized seed?

 

[Ibechillin]

What kind of results would we see if a couple males from regular seed pollinated plants grow from feminized seed?

Regular x feminized makes regular male and female seeds again. Pollen from female XX plants make female seeds since no Y chromosome is present at fertilization, regular males are XY and give the Y chromosome allowing male and female plants.

 

[spazspaz]

As I understand it (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong):
What will absolutely happen when you SELF a flower is many different phenos of that strain will emerge.

....


Some of these phenos will immerge even in stabilized strains. I grew a crop GG#4, hopping for a Chocolate Diesel pheno. Alas, only two different "shapes" showed up. Christmas tree and a bush, but the buds were identical in every way.

I’m new to even beginning to imagine considering doing some tinkering with this. Thanks much for the info here, and above.

I like the idea of being able to get something like replication in seed form. The possibility of “hacking” you describe is also fascinating, especially if it could be more efficient than other breeding programs.

If anyone has more experience to share with phenotype variation (especially if the end result commonly appears to be the aforementioned uniformity of bud characteristics) in a seed lot from the same selfing, please describe.

 

[TychoMonolyth]

I’m new to even beginning to imagine considering doing some tinkering with this. Thanks much for the info here, and above.

I like the idea of being able to get something like replication in seed form. The possibility of “hacking” you describe is also fascinating, especially if it could be more efficient than other breeding programs.

If anyone has more experience to share with phenotype variation (especially if the end result commonly appears to be the aforementioned uniformity of bud characteristics) in a seed lot from the same selfing, please describe.

I consider it hacking, but it's really being more of a script kiddie. I'm just fishing for a nice surprise that occasionally shows up. GG#4 was an accidental pollination that ended up in the trash bin along with 4 other siblings. Plants #3 & #4 were rescued from the garbage and kept because they looked interesting (so I've read).

The mentions in here about phenotypes are just in passing with a bit of detail. A couple posts above you is Ibechillin's post about fractures phenotypes. He mentions S1 and F2. I suggest you start with looking up those terms. You should at least familiarize yourself with them and other terms that describe lineage and go from there. If you want to know more about it, check out the Breeder's Laboratory thread and start reading and researching. It's a deep subject, but there's tons of great information in that thread.

 

[pipeline]

It seems to be a good way to breed, oregon cbd uses it for hemp breeding. He says in the speech that the f2 generation after selfing is where the magic happens. That's where you see the greatest diversity.


Doing this would really bottleneck the gene pool I guess, but it depends on what you want. For a long term IBL you make a couple of these parent lines using selfing breeding programs and cross the similar parent lines for a stable IBL seed line.



I can't wait to see what pops up this year in my seed with the awesome champion Deep Chunk dominant male that was used last year!

 

[BadTicket]

For shits and giggles, here's some badly tended plants/shit that didn't make it, to break the monotony of sweet ass grows 'n' plants.

Grey mold, bad stuff. Will take over a plant very fast. Rain drops, wind or just touching the plant will makes spores fly and spread the shit.

White mold, with some grey on the side. White is not as bad as grey, but will also spread fast. Still, tricky stuff especially on fat buds, as it might grow inside out and stay unnoticed and ruin what looks to be a good cola. Some people say it's ok to make hash or butter, or smoke weed with whitey, but I won't. Usually toss the stuff to the woods to be safe.

Autoflower micro pheno. It happens, not much you can do about it as most AF varieties seem to carry the mini/micro pheno gene or whatever. If you grow 20 autoflowskis, you might not get one. But after you grow 2000, you most likely will.
Careless transplanting/repotting might also cause this, especially if you break the taproot.. Which is not good for any plant, but especially AF strains seem to get upset by it.

Last but not least. Grower errors, in this case weed smoking in windy & dry conditions -> sparks -> smoldering plot -> burned stems and killed the plants.. Bad luck or stupidity? Both I guess, but you be the judge. On the brights side, this didn't escalate and start a forest fire, so not the worst thing ever. Lesson learned.