Male clones transformed to Female to judge male smoking quality

[titoon29]

Hey sam, !

Great infos mate, i like especially the part where you talk about terpens with pure thc... man i ld love to see some reports on that, associating terpens with high "specifications"...

at a time i was thinking of doing some kind of smoke report database, using IC model, and with enough reports filled, we could try to link tastes/smell and high using statistics. would that be worth it ? -but i ld have to learn php and mysql for that, and didn t had the time nor motivation to do that, yet.

We meant,, have you ever used a vapouriser to judge the males you've reversed into female ,, not normal standard male plants. No-one in their right mind smokes males these days... lol

hey doc !

well I meant real males sorry for not being clear !

i m in my right mind (at least i think ^^), and i tried to vaporise males for "scientific" purposes ^^ and it does get me high, but the males i used where too young so not enough resin (couldn t afford to keep them flowering)...

if you look closely on a fully mature male, as you know, they are a lot of trichomes... since trichomes are the only thing vaporised, there should be no difference between a male and a female.. even try vaporising leaves with few resin content, if you get enough of them, you ll get as high as with the buds, and same taste.

(also sam i was refering to my trip to nepal, but was thinking more for vaporising fresh females there, as you said they probably use open pollination anyway...)

I understand sam that vaporizing is very subjective, especially since they are a lot of cannabinoids and terpens involved in the high... and that there is not the best way to try to determine different cannabinoids than GC.

maybe it is beyond a simple Vaporizer to do what you need.

I agree, but i ld love to be sure after all, this is just a new tool which maybe hasn t be explored enough ! and there is no best way than posting on ic about it ^^

Would it be possible to try for example vaporizing all the thc of a sample at 160°, than keep the sample and try it without any previous consumption, so that you can identify cbd content, or at least compare to other samples ? ( there will still be the terpens involved, but less) it could help stopping that only THC plants spreading by nowadays breeding ?
(i know it s a bit out of the subject)

i ld love to see, as i told you at the beginning of the post, some reports about terpens and the high! and i m sure a lot of us would love too... how much would you say terpens are involved in high ?

your answers and the time you took to reply ! I hope i m not being silly asking them.... and not hijacking your thread... feel free to delete my post if so...


+++

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Cannabis certainly isn't x/y sex determined. Sure, there are markers for male plants, but not as sex chromosomes, like in people, or even other plants.

Males have the markers for maleness, and females don't have them.

"Hermies" DON'T have any male-related markers.

Here are some funny pics of male plants induced to be female, and the transitory effect of ethylene.

I don'y know if you can tell by the pics, but the female flowers that did form really didn't get any trichomes, but did grow lots of little cystolith-type hairs.

When the treatment was stopped, the male flowers grew out of the female flower bracts.

I was going to post my "clone from a root" picture, but I couldn't find it.

I do believe Cannabis is X/Y sex determined.
Males have markers, so do Females, I have posted the reference to the paper on female markers by Rob Clarke and his Chinese colleague several times on IC. You can find it. What you call Hermies when DNA tested are Females that is the problem with DNA Male tests it only finds the Males and presumes all other non Males are Females, but they still may be intersex and cause many problems.
I will bet you anything that "Hermies" do have sex markers also.
My males transformed to female had lots of resin with heads.
I treated them several times at least, some 4 times, a week apart....

-SamS

 

[englishrick]

is this the paper your talking about ??

Taxonomic studies of Cannabis in China
http://www.hempfood.com/iha/iha03207.html

Introduction

Cannabis has spread naturally and has also been cultivated in nearly every province and climatic zone in China from ancient times to the present. The fibers of Cannabis stalks are most commonly used to make ropes, clothes and other textiles, while its seeds are pressed for their oil, or are eaten raw or roasted as snacks between meals (especially in northwestern Yunnan Province). They are also mixed in buttered tea by Tibetans. Some Cannabis is illicitly planted for smoking in the Xinjiang Province of northwestern China. Drug Cannabis is rarely, if ever, applied as a medicine in Chinese hospitals because it is erroneously considered addicting.Besides the general name Da Ma (great hemp), the Chinese vernacular terms for Cannabis include Huo Ma (fire hemp), Xian Ma (line hemp) and Huang Ma (yellow hemp). The fruits of Cannabis are called Ma Zi (hemp seed) and Huo Ma Ren (fire hemp seed). The female inflorescences are called Ma Fen (fragrant hemp branch). The terms Da Ma, Xian Ma, and Huang Ma for the plants and their products and Da Ma Zi or simply Ma Zi for the fruits are usually applied to the fiber and seed producing C. sativa cultivars and landraces. Cannabis smoking is not popular or widespread in China. The terms Da Ma and Huo Ma are only rarely used to denote smoking Cannabis in the south and east of China. However, Huo Ma is much more commonly used by traditional Chinese pharmacists to denote the cleaned hemp seeds incorporated into local herbal stomach remedies. The seeds for medical use most often come from either cultivated or naturalized C. sativa landraces.

Chinese scientists have carried out thorough research on the genus Cannabis and their articles, published in diverse Chinese books and journals, cover nearly all aspects of its study from practical agronomy to public health concerns. This paper concentrates on the literature pertaining directly to the taxonomy and evolution of the genus Cannabis as well as supporting literature from the fields of comparative anatomy and morphology, natural products chemistry, and the most recent tentative approaches to analysis.



History and literature

Contemporary Chinese Cannabis studies began in the 1950's, soon after the People's Republic of China was founded. During those days, a general natural resources survey was carried out all over China. The medicinal and economic values of Cannabis were first recorded in Flora of Chinese Medicinal Plants (Pei and Chou 1951) and it is also recorded in the Chinese Pharmacopoeia of 1957. Chinese scientists early noticed that Cannabis is a widely distributed plant in China and has medical and other productive applications. Two of the first Chinese books on plant taxonomy, Pictorial Handbook of Chinese Plants (Chia et al. 1958) and Dictionary of Families and Genera of Chinese Seed Plants (How 1958), simultaneously named Cannabis from China as C. sativa L. Since this name was also recorded in Iconographia Cormophytorum Sinicorum (ASBI 1972), one of the most comprehensive and highly respected Chinese plant taxonomy reference books, C. sativa L. has been regarded as the representative name for Chinese Cannabis.

Another form name, C. sativa L. f. ruderalis (Janisch.) Chu, was recorded in Flora Plantarum Herbacearum Chine Boreali-Orientalis (Chu 1959). This new form name was also adopted by Flora of Chinese Economic Plants (Anon. 1961) and specifically represented the Cannabis distributed in some areas of northeastern China. The specimens representing this form in Chinese herbaria do not exhibit the key anatomical character described by Janischevsky (1924), i.e., that the fruit base becomes elongated and forms a "caruncle". However, his collections from Altai and Yili in Xinjiang Province possess the so-called "caruncle" only in some fruits from the same plant. The lack of a caruncle may result from incomplete maturation. Based on the lack of consistent expression of this primary discriminating character, both the form name and the original species name are questionable.

Zhao (1991) proposed that there are four varieties of C. sativa L. distributed in China; sativa, spontanea, indica and kafiristanica. However, while only presenting a basic classification key derived from Small and Cronquist (1976), she did not provide Chinese representative voucher specimens or delimit the range of these taxa except that the specimens from Fukang, Xinjiang, was identified as spontanea.


The Morphology Department of the Botanical Institute of the Academia Sinica (ASBI 1960) reported on the pollen surface features of Chinese Cannabis in Pollen Morphologies of Chinese Plants. The ASBI Handbook of Chinese Oil Plants (1973) discusses the constituents of Cannabis seed oil. Other important chemical components of Cannabis such as the cannabinoids, and the terpenoids which account for its unique aromas, are listed in Lexicon of Chinese Traditional Medicinal Plants (Jiangsu New Medical College 1975), Compilation of Chinese Herbal Medicines (Anon. 1978) and Flora of Economic Plants in Shandong Province (Anon. 1978). Other papers scattered in various journals report the cannabinoid content of specimens from several provinces (e.g. Ling et al. 1985, Liu et al. 1992, Chen et al. 1993, Zhan et al. 1994).

Large scale comprehensive scientific research on Cannabis from 1986 through 1990 (encompassing the disciplines of chemistry, anatomy, morphology, pharmacognosy, drug use survey, etc.) was carried out in several institutes in a coordinated program organized by the National Institute for the Control of Pharmaceutical and Biological Products under the organization of the Bureau of Public Health. The results are collected mostly in Corpus of Scientific Theses on Cannabis (Anonymous 1991).

Achievements and problems

China is one of the largest countries in the world, covering over 9.6 million square kilometers.

There are cultivated landraces, feral escapees from cultivation and truly wild Cannabis populations in China. Chinese Cannabis populations from different locations vary widely in morphology, chemical contents and levels of biologically active compounds, but much of the same variation can also be found within single plants at varying stages of development. Climatic and edaphic conditions also cause wide variation in proposed taxonomic characters and often confound attempts at accurate systematic analyses. Collecting and classifying accessions from various conditions of climate, elevation, microclimate and soil leads to ambiguous results. Since most Cannabis varieties are dioecious, (the morphologically different male and female flowers are borne on separate plants), morphological taxonomic decisions should be based on observations of both staminate and pistillate individuals. However, many herbarium specimens are collected from juvenile plants and so are devoid of any flowers. It is important to collect samples during a common developmental "window" (i.e., floral maturation) so that data can be compared more accurately. This can only be accomplished by growing accessions in a common garden and carefully sorting herbarium samples by developmental maturity and sexual type.


Specimens of Chinese Cannabis are mostly kept in the regional herbaria of the Botanical Institute of the Academia Sinica (ASBI) and some larger universities. Herbarium specimens and fruits are also preserved in some institutes and universities at which the studies on Cannabis were carried out in recent years, such as Beijing Medical University and the National Institute for the Control of Pharmaceutical and Biological Products. Other Cannabis taxonomic materials are mostly found in the local departments of the Bureau of Public Health.


Morphological and anatomical studies of herbarium specimens and living samples of Chinese Cannabis reveal the following unique observations. Cultivated varieties have significantly larger fruits than the wild populations. Size of the fruits is only a stable criterion of classification as to whether samples are cultivated or wild forms, but does not indicate geographical origin. Surface patterns of the persistent vestigial perianths adherent on the achenes show some differences between the wild and the cultivated forms. Wild fruits generally have deeper, and more irregularly dispersed, pigmented areas (blotchy spots and stripes) than those of the cultivated ones. All other morphological and anatomical parameters found to vary widely due to environmental influences are not suitable as criteria for taxonomic and evolutionary studies.


The content of delta-9-THC in fruiting inflorescences of Chinese Cannabis, from different individual plants, ranges across a broad scale from 0.02% to 4.38% of dry weight (Zhao 1991, Zhan et al. 1994). THC content can vary widely even among individual samples taken from the same inflorescence. In addition, THC breaks down slowly at room temperature. This means that samples must be fresh, large and well-homogenized to provide accurate results. Landraces cultivated for drug use are generally the highest in THC, while those cultivated for fiber and seed uses are the lowest in THC. Escaped populations have THC contents approximating those of the related cultivated populations, and wild populations generally have low THC contents. According to the forensically-oriented view of Small and Cronquist (1976), all samples grown for producing Cannabis cigarettes (Ma Yan) in Xinjiang Province can be classified as members of the "drug" group (THC greater than 0.3% of dry weight). Therefore, as an amendment of general opinion, the distribution of Chinese drug type Cannabis might be expanded to include areas south of 42ƒN latitude in the Xinjiang Province of western China, in addition to the regions of southern and eastern China, south of 30ƒN latitude.


Liu et al. (1992) reported that there is little or no THC, CBD or CBN in the stems and leaves of male plants both from Shache and Kashi, Xinjiang, while there are higher contents of THC in the stems and leaves of female plants from the two areas. They stated that only the female plants contain medicinal properties or are used for smoking. The upper inflorescences, younger leaves and resin gland secretions of female plants are used for making Cannabis cigarettes in Kashi, Hetian and Aksu in Xinjiang. The THC content of Xinjiang Cannabis cigarettes ranged from 0.42% to 1.06% of dry weight in Kashi Prefecture, and the average THC content of Cannabis cigarettes from Shache was 0.79% of dry weight (Chen et al. 1993).


The comparative histology of the stalk (Zhao 1991) showed that the average number of vessels in vessel groups of xylem in 40 samples of Cannabis (sp. and subsp.) from 24 regions of China is variable. This finding disagrees with the results of Anderson (1974) who found the average numbers of vessels in vessel groups of xylem in C. sativa and C. indica were 1.39 and 3.05 respectively. However, it must be remembered that what Anderson called C. indica may have been what Chinese taxonomists usually refer to as C. sativa ssp. indica, and may also have included samples of what the Russian taxonomists Vavilov and Bukinich (1929) called C. indica ssp. afghanica or C. indica ssp. kafiristanica. Chinese herbarium collections do not include any examples of these taxa. The existence of only a few calcareous crystals in Chinese Cannabis also differs from Anderson's observations of C. indica.


Experimental taxonomic studies of Cannabis, including statistics of germination rates of seeds, making artificial hybridizations and analysis of hereditary characteristics of filial generations, were carried out at Beijing Medical University from 1990-93, under the supervision of Prof. Cheng Ching-young, one of the most well-known taxonomists in China. Her results revealed that few important taxonomic criteria can be used to distinguish the samples from Xinjiang, Gansu, Inner Mongolia and Ningxia Provinces in northwestern China. From the dissertation of one of her students (Yang 1993), Cheng concluded that there is only one species (C. sativa L.) consisting of two forms: (f. sativa and f. indica) in China. It is possible to distinguish this (as well as more subtle) genetic differences between cultivated and wild forms by means of further DNA analyses.


Since there are no classical taxonomic characters suitable to classify species and varieties of Cannabis, other new appropriate technologies have been introduced into this field. A project using advanced molecular methods was started at Beijing Medical University in late 1993 (Shao and Liu 1994). The chromosome number of Cannabis is 2n=20 (Harlan et al. 1973), but there is little information concerning chromosome karyotype, genome or DNA. Employing the molecular genetic techniques of DNA polymorphisms, the molecular genetic variations of Chinese Cannabis resources can be better investigated and the evolutionary relationships between wild populations, landraces, and cultivars can be revealed.


Data reflecting the relatedness of differing populations is also valuable to modern plant breeders wishing to utilize diverse gene pools in the development of modern Cannabis cultivars. The goals of current work are to: 1) determine the distribution of wild, semi-wild and cultivated Cannabis in China, 2) compare accessions at the molecular genetic level, 3) determine origins of cultivated Cannabis taxa and evolutionary relationships between them, as well as between wild and cultivated taxa, 4) make molecular identification of sex during early developmental stages of Cannabis, 5) determine the molecular genetic differences between fiber and drug types of Cannabis and 6) determine the range of genetic variation in modern landraces and cultivars.


Presently, we have some preliminary experimental results: 1) The DNA lengths of Cannabis from Yunnan, Guizhou and Xinjiang Provinces are about 10-20 kilobases. 2) Cultivated samples have mutations in the DNA structure indicative of artificial selection. 3) DNA restriction fragments are different between the cultivated samples and the wild samples. 4) The samples of different sexes exhibit unique identifiable fragments. 5) Identifiable genetic fingerprints exist in different accessions. Recent discoveries about Cannabis DNA encouraged us to continue the project, but further achievements must be supported by additional funding.

Cannabis Sativa

“Hemp” refers primarily to Cannabis sativa L. (Cannabaceae), although the term has been applied to dozens of species representing at least 22 genera, often prominent fiber crops. For examples, Manila hemp (abaca) is Musa textilis Née, sisal hemp is Agave sisalina Perrine, and sunn hemp is Crotolaria juncea L. Especially confusing is the phrase “Indian hemp,” which has been used both for narcotic Asian land races of C. sativa (so-called C. indica Lamarck of India) and Apocynum cannabinum L., which was used by North American Indians as a fiber plant. Cannabis sativa is a multi-purpose plant that has been domesticated for bast (phloem) fiber in the stem, a multi-purpose fixed oil in the “seeds” (achenes), and an intoxicating resin secreted by epidermal glands. The common names hemp and marijuana (much less frequently spelled marihuana) have been applied loosely to all three forms, although historically hemp has been used primarily for the fiber cultigen and its fiber preparations, and marijuana for the drug cultigen and its drug preparations. The current hemp industry is making great efforts to point out that “hemp is not marijuana.” Italicized, Cannabis refers to the biological name of the plant (only one species of this genus is commonly recognized, C. sativa L.). Non-italicized, “cannabis” is a generic abstraction, widely used as a noun and adjective, and commonly (often loosely) used both for cannabis plants and/or any or all of the intoxicant preparations made from them.

Probably indigenous to temperate Asia, C. sativa is the most widely cited example of a “camp follower.” It was pre-adapted to thrive in the manured soils around man’s early settlements, which quickly led to its domestication (Schultes 1970). Hemp was harvested by the Chinese 8500 years ago (Schultes and Hofmann 1980). For most of its history, C. sativa was most valued as a fiber source, considerably less so as an intoxicant, and only to a limited extent as an oilseed crop. Hemp is one of the oldest sources of textile fiber, with extant remains of hempen cloth trailing back 6 millennia. Hemp grown for fiber was introduced to western Asia and Egypt, and subsequently to Europe somewhere between 1000 and 2000 BCE. Cultivation in Europe became widespread after 500 ce. The crop was first brought to South America in 1545, in Chile, and to North America in Port Royal, Acadia in 1606. The hemp industry flourished in Kentucky, Missouri, and Illinois between 1840 and 1860 because of the strong demand for sailcloth and cordage (Ehrensing 1998). From the end of the Civil War until 1912, virtually all hemp in the US was produced in Kentucky. During World War I, some hemp cultivation occurred in several states, including Kentucky, Wisconsin, California, North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Kansas, and Iowa (Ehrensing 1998). The second world war led to a brief revival of hemp cultivation in the Midwest, as well as in Canada, because the war cut off supplies of fiber (substantial renewed cultivation also occurred in Germany for the same reason). Until the beginning of the 19th century, hemp was the leading cordage fiber. Until the middle of the 19th century, hemp rivaled flax as the chief textile fiber of vegetable origin, and indeed was described as “the king of fiber-bearing plants,—the standard by which all other fibers are measured” (Boyce 1900). Nevertheless, the Marihuana Tax Act applied in 1938 essentially ended hemp production in the United States, although a small hemp fiber industry continued in Wisconsin until 1958. Similarly in 1938 the cultivation of Cannabis became illegal in Canada under the Opium and Narcotics Act




Prospective endeavors

Considering the difficulties of Cannabis research, the hidden relationships between Cannabis varieties or populations require that new and more advanced techniques be introduced and combined with conventional studies of Cannabis. Following the progress in other disciplines (e.g., blood/tissue typing and genome mapping), studies of classification, systematics and evolution in Cannabis might successfully use modern molecular techniques to solve problems for which conventional methods are inadequate.


Currently, there are several techniques of DNA polymorphism analysis successfully used to find genetic correlations, to detect evolutionary relationships, and to identify a hybrid's possible parents. They have been concerned with plant taxa ranging from families to varieties, in more than 10 families and 20 genera. These modern molecular techniques include: VNTR (Variable Number of Tandem Repeats), RFLP (Restriction Fragment Length Polymorphisms), AP-PCR (Arbitrarily Primed Polymerase Chain Reaction), DAF (DNA Amplification Fingerprint), RAPD (Random Amplified Polymorphic DNA), etc. Other methods applicable to investigation of polymorphisms in mitochondrial and chloroplast DNA have also been developed. These readily available "DNA fingerprint" methods can be used to analyze plant genomes. Two or more of these DNA data, when compared to each other and to other taxonomic data, could greatly improve our understanding of the systematics and evolution of Cannabis.


The Chinese National Natural Science Foundation has supported some molecular taxonomic and systematic projects that mostly employed the technology of chloroplast DNA restriction maps to study wild species in Vitis, the Convallariaceae and Gnetaceae, ferns etc., since 1989 (Qi and Gao 1990 and 1991, Zhu 1992, Zhu and Qi 1993). A few papers about molecular taxonomy and systematics can be found in Chinese scientific journals (Shi 1993, Hong 1993, Shao and Liu 1994, Huang et al.). Most are reviews and conclude that modern molecular technologies can be used to solve plant taxonomic, systematic and evolutionary problems. DNA fingerprint studies of Chinese Cannabis in Beijing Medical University enlisted the modest support of the Bureau of Public Health at the end of 1993, but the project is now short of funds.


We are confident that when the continuing vigorous development of modern molecular biological techniques is accompanied by improvement of our financial environment, research on Cannabis in China will progress greatly and will contribute additional valuable evidence to the studies and applications of Cannabis worldwide.








References

* Anderson, L. C., 1974. A study of systematic wood anatomy in Cannabis. Harvard Botanical Museum Leaflets, 24(2): 29-36.
* Anonymous, 1961. Flora of Chinese Economic Plants. Vol. 1:35, 72. [in Chinese]
* Anonymous, 1978a. Compilation of Chinese Traditional and Herbal Medicines. People's Press, Beijing, Vol. 2: 143-144, t.152s. [in Chinese]
* Anonymous, 1978b. Flora of Economic Plants in Shandong Province. Shandong People's Press, Jinan, Shandong: 53-55, t.6-8. [in Chinese]
* Anonymous 1991. Corpus of Scientific Theses on Cannabis. Interior Book of Medicinal Administration, Bureau of Public Health, P. R. China, Beijing. [in Chinese]
* ASBI, Botanical Institute of Academia Sinica 1960. Pollen Morphologies of Chinese Plants. Science Press, Beijing: 179. [in Chinese]
* ASBI, Botanical Institute of Academia Sinica 1972. Iconographia Cormophytorum Sinicorum Science Press, Beijing, Vol. 1: 503, t.105.x . [in Chinese]
* ASBI, Botanical Institute of Academia Sinica 1973. Handbook of Chinese Oil Plants. Science Press, Beijing: 19. [in Chinese]
* Chen Jian et al. 1993. Determination of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol in Xinjiang Cannabis plants and cigarettes. Chinese Bulletin on Drug Dependence 2(2):94. [in Chinese]
* Chia Tsu-chang et al. 1958. Pictorial Handbook of Chinese Plants. Chinese Book Bureau, Shanghai: 918. [in Chinese]
* Chu Yu-chang 1959. Flora Plantarum Herbacearum Chine Boreali-Orientalis. Science Press, Beijing. Vol. 2: 2. [in Chinese]
* Harlan, J. R. et al. 1973. Comparative evolution of cereals. Evolution 27: 311-325.
* Hoehe, M. R., et al. 1991. Genetic and physical mapping of the human cannabinoid receptor on chromosome 6q14-q15. The New Biologist 3(9): 880-885.
* Hong De-yuan, 1993. New development of taxonomy and our policy. Life Science 5(1): 6-9.
* How Foon-chew 1958. A Dictionary of the Families and Genera of Chinese Seed Plants. Science Press, Beijing: 74. [in Chinese]
* Huang Yao et al. 1994. Chloroplast DNA and its utility in the studies on plant systematics. Chinese Bulletin of Botany 11(2): 11-25. [in Chinese]
* Janischevsky, D. E. 1924. Forma konopli na sornykh mestakh v Yugovostochnoi Russi. Ucen. Zap. Saratovsk, Gosud. Cernysevskgo Univ. 2(2): 3-17. [in Russian]
* Jiangsu New Medical College 1975. Lexicon of Chinese Traditional Medicine. Shanghai People's Press, Shanghai: 498-499. [in Chinese]
* Ling Nian et al. 1985. Isolation and identification of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol in Zhejiang Cannabis plants. Researches of Chinese Traditional Patent Medicine (8): 29-30. [in Chinese]
* Liu Tian-cheng, et al. 1992. Determination of delta-9-Tetrahydrocannabinol, cannabidiol and cannabinol in Xinjiang Cannabis plants by GC. Chinese Traditional and Herbal Drugs 23(9):463-464. [in Chinese]
* Pei Chien and Chou Tai-yen 1951. Flora of Chinese Medicinal Plants. Vol. 2: 56. [in Chinese]
* Qi Shu-ying and Gao Wen-shu, 1990. Projects of plant science supported by National Natural Science Foundation of China in 1989. Acta Botanica Sinica 32(4): 323-328. [in Chinese]
* Qi Shu-ying and Gao Wen-shu 1991. Projects of plant science supported by National Natural Science Foundation of China in 1990. Acta Botanica Sinica 33(4): 323-328. [in Chinese]
* Serebriakova, T. I. 1940. Fiber plants in Wulff, E. V. (ed.) Flora of Cultivated Plants Vol. 5, Part 1, State Printing Office, Moscow and Leningrad. [in Russian]
* Shao Hong and Liu Jia-ying 1994. The new technology of molecular plant taxonomy and systematics - VNTR as well as DNA fingerprints. Plants (122): 25-27. [in Chinese]
* Shi Su-hua 1993. Preliminary study on Gnetaceae systematics - Molecular biological evidence. Sunyatsenia (Acta of Zhongshan University) 32(2): 55-59. [in Chinese]
* Small, E. and A. Cronquist, 1976. A practical and natural taxonomy for Cannabis. Taxon 25(4): 405-435.
* Vavilov, N. I. and D. D. Bukinich 1929. Agricultural Afghanistan. The Bulletin of Applied Botany, Genetics, and Plant Breeding Supp. 33: 378-82, 474, 480, 584-85, 604. [in Russian]
* World Publishing House (eds.) 1957. Chinese Pharmacopoeia. People's Public Health Press, Beijing. [in Chinese]
* Yang Yong-hong, 1993. A Preliminary Systematic Study on Cannabis sativa L. Dissertation, Beijing Medical University, Beijing. [in Chinese]
* Zhan Er-yi et al. 1994. Analysis of active contents in Cannabis plants of Zongshuying Villa of Kunming. China. Acta of Kunming Medical University 15(2): 40-42. [in Chinese]
* Zhao Da-wen 1991. Taxonomic and Pharmacognosic Researches on Chinese Cannabis. Internal Report, National Institute for the Control of Pharmaceutical and Biological Products. Beijing: 9-13. [in Chinese]
* Zhu Da-bao 1992. Projects of plant science supported by National Natural Science Foundation of China in 1991. Acta Botanica Sinica 34(9): 720-728. [in Chinese]
* Zhu Da-bao and Qi Shu-ying 1993. Projects of plant science supported by National Natural Science Foundation of China in 1992. Acta Botanica Sinica 35(11): 891-892. [in Chinese]

hay sam i read Medicinal Uses of Cannabis and Cannabinoids the other day by Dr Guy and friends,,,,,i love it,,,its the best 25 quid ive ever spent,,,,,its amazing,,,ahh man its sutch a good book,,,,it spekes to me on my level!!,,,id recomend it to everyone!!

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

No wrong paper.
This is it:


Journal of Industrial Hemp 2003 Vol 8 issue 1 page 5-9, Female-Associated DNA Polymorphisms of Hemp (Cannabis sativa L.), Hong Shao, Shu-Juan Song, Robert C. Clarke

-SamS

 

[englishrick]

thanks sam...

 

[contra]

There is one thing that bothers me about this whole xx female xy male discussion. If crossing two xx plants (one reversed) to make feminised seed, how then is it possible to obtain male plants from this seedstock that should consist of only xx? I feel there must be something more complex which determines expression of sex traits. Can someone please explain how males can come from feminised seed assuming there was no stray pollen in the mix?

 

[englishrick]

i think the issue your talking about is when sex becomes a lil bit more complex than just XX and XY,,,,some papers i have tried to read expain sex with more than a simple XY or XX, some expain it as XXY or XXXXY,,etc

from what i gather,,, some plants do not show intersexed traits but the interxed trait might still be recessive!!,,,so you think your crossing 2 True Females but in truth is the recessive intersexed trait is hiding only later to pop up as a funny male in an all fem seedline ,,,

basicly ,,,if you find a male in a feminized seedline,,, then the chances are its a hermi trait thats been there from the second the inital cross was made!!,,,,,,,,i think thats what the bigboys will tell you anyways,,,

will someone please correct me if im wrong,,,il stop butting in if i am,,,i just thought i might be able to answer this 1 quicky,,

sorry

 

[DocLeaf]

hey doc !

well I meant real males sorry for not being clear !

i m in my right mind (at least i think ^^), and i tried to vaporise males for "scientific" purposes ^^ and it does get me high

Hi

Male plants won't get you high in general... more down.

But the stuff Sam was on about , was inhibiting a regular male plant to display the female side in its XY. That's funky stuff. We never tried it,, but if the reverse female flowered and made resin,, you could vap it to judge the effect (buzz) of each male in selection when looking for male traits to breed with.

That stuffs just mind boggling,, open ya horizons type stuff. Full props Sam-da-Skunkman we still learning from your posts

 

[ShroomDr]

So...has anyone done this on perspective males (only Sam's proven male)?

I thought the first hypothesis was to use males (clone them) and turn these clones into females (which we can more accurately gauge for positive traits).

From Sam's posts, it seems the chemical process of turning males to female, basically burns the plant, so they look freaky. This probably eliminates the ability to make a 'plant structure' judgment, but since sam said his (proven) reversed male smoked pretty well, one could assume the cannabioid profiles could be unaffected by the reversal (or possibly not up to full potential given the burn).

So... Sam, or anyone, has this been done to search though unproven males? Have these reversed flowers been judged against the F1 seed (female) they produce (from an original un-sprayed male)? Specifically looking for a correlations?

 

[ShroomDr]

This process could take a lot of space (not too many people want to keep males around).

However, IF the judgement could be made, you would have a 20K+ cut.

To have a male... lets say skunk... that you knew passed on, oh lets say... the RKS smell to all its progeny (swelled early, rock hard nugs, whatever you are looking for), it would be a whole lot more valuable than almost any (female) cutting out there.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

First of all I believe in growing out lots of progeny to understand the potential of any given male or female breeding clone. But if you did have ten new prospective male clones of a new XYZ variety that were selected for vigor etc, then you might want to flower them off as females to better understand the smells, tastes, and the highs they can contribute to progeny made from them. I am not so sure this method is the best way to judge which males can contribute for form or denseness as the female flowers formed are just not the same as a real female, but the smells and tastes and highs are.
The obvious example of RKS vs Sweet Skunk males is a good example of a use.
But it is also a shame that most people don't have the time to grow lots of males, make selections and progeny with them and grow out the progeny in large numbers to see what they pass on. But I do know why it is hard to do so. And maybe this method can help to select males that can pass on traits that you want to keep. It can be used, and with careful use you don't have to spray and burn the leaves, just spray where sexual organs will form.
-SamS

 

[DocLeaf]

We are still aiming towards working with bigger numbers Sam..

To repeat ourselves ,, the whole notion of reversing a male ,, and then vaping the results to test resin content,, open horizons we never even thought existed not that we spray plants,, but anyhow ,, many thanks for the on-growing enlightenment on most the threads/posts you contribute to ya still doing it

 

[Hrpuffnkush]

Sure, me with a low tolerance...

I would never use a vaporizer to try and determine the terpenoid content or percentages as there is no way to confirm other then subjective.
With a GC you know exactly what terpenoids/cannabinoids are present and in what amounts.
But to be honest most western bred Cannabis is just THC, with very very small amounts of maybe CBD, less then .1, and terpenoids to be understood they need to be vaporized with .20 mg 100% pure THC, then the real effects become clear.
I understand you want to do maybe this but really a vaporizer will not answer the questions. But you can try it on the road and see if it helps.
What does work is to stay around long enough at a place you find Cannabis being cultivated, to see how they do it, see the plants when finished, and try the finished dried & cured bud. Then you don't need a vaporizer, unless for males, but unless you are around at pollination time I am not sure you can guarantee that any seeds were in fact pollinated by any specific male, more likely many many males.
I understand you are trying to work with what you have, but maybe it is beyond a simple Vaporizer to do what you need.
BTW I have used my volcano for hundreds if not thousand of experiments, but I have 100% pure cannabinoid standards as well as terpenoid standards, and I am not trying to determine content of Cannabis I am using them with a vaporizer to gain an understanding of each compound cannabinoid or terpenoid that is found in Cannabis. For this the vaporizer is very useful.
-SamS

Sam have you ever did a GC on you "western bred" RKS and SSK if so
What were the cbd amounts

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

If you refer to my Skunk #1 as it originally was in the 70's and my sweeter skunk #1, both were below .1% CBD but they do have some different terpenoids that change the tastes, smells, and subjective effects and type of high, as well as strength.

-SamS

 

[englishrick]

sam,,,whats the highest % THC you have got a line upto?,,,,

 

[Hrpuffnkush]

If you refer to my Skunk #1 as it originally was in the 70's and my sweeter skunk #1, both were below .1% CBD but they do have some different terpenoids that change the tastes, smells, and subjective effects and type of high, as well as strength.

-SamS

Cool thanks for reply Mr Sam

i Love terpenoids LOL

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

The highest bud I have seen was 29% THC but it was not the subjectively strongest, or the type of high I preferred. THC while obviously important, is just part of the picture. !00% pure THC is boring to me for example....

 

[englishrick]

cool,,,,,,,,,,,i understand!!,,,,,,the terpens are like a key,,,the endo receptors are the lock,,,,the terpens are like applyed pressure,,,,,thats how i see it,,,,,,"i cant open my endo lock without applying pressure to the canabinoid key"

i know ,,,its the Raphael Mechoulam "entourage effect",,,,i feel like ive been reading about it for years..

i just wanted to know how mutch THC % you have managed to get in the past,,,,because ive relized that yealding cannabinoids is very different from yealding terpenoids ,,,

through my readings i am slowly relizing,,,"it might be best to yeald things seperatly",,,i figuring i can just mix things into a final sample at the end with extreemly controled ratios,,this is more my style!!

ps,,,question,,,????,,,is there sutch thing as a "dense terpen profile"?,,,,by adding new terpens can we create totaly new effects?,,,ie,,could i mix a rose terpen into my kiff and smoke them together to create a new effect?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

You are the hundredth person to ask me this, I say I sure hope people don't, it is not good as unscrupulous people will add who knows what? I want pure Cannabis, not someone's idea of what they think I should smoke because it makes their product more sellable or whatever.

-SamS

 

[englishrick]

im not focusing on "jo public",,,my issue is a niche

presevation is totaly different to medication,,,,,you are the master imo at presevation!!!,,,but I am the master at how i medicate myself "with all due respect"

i am also an inderidual,,,,,an my main focus is also on treeting myself 1st too,,,,

i am 100% with you on the presevation side!!,,,,,"we need big freezers full of landrace",,,,we need old / new / novel genotypes...i love every indervidual old or new,,,im just happy its here!!




but i have this issue,, i have not seen my mum in 3 years because everytime i see her im tripping because i justed smoked a joint,,,,my eyes are red,,,im drowsy,,,latargic,,,,its not cool for me to medicate allday in my familys company,,,,so i dont see my family mutch!!,,,,,but still i smoke, an smoke an smoke,,,,,,,i DONT like geting "high",,,,,,,,the main function of canna in my life it to bring all sorts of balance,,,,,,,,,,,only because it brings balance do i smoke it,,,

im just being open to to better medication,,,,i was never happy with the weed i bought on the street