100% agreed. The ridiculous names and rebranding of something once popular is misleading. I've seen multiple pictures of Kona Gold on Icmag and other site's and the new vs old look nothing alike. If you do, however, know for sure where it was from and bred, the name can be informative and helpful in preserving that specific variety.It's strange how people just like a nice story for their weeds origin . I sound like a broken record but somehow the mexico seeds I find from imports are worth less. they are less valuable in some people's minds because I don't know where in mexico they come from. No fancy state or city name just mexico modern day brick is all I can say. I refuse to make up a name for them like " this herb right here
is Acapulco Hawaiian gold"
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Looking for Landrace Hawaiian Sativa
- Thread starter Devaku
- Start date
RobFromTX
Well-known member
When i think of Hawaiian Sativa the first thing that comes to my mind is Federations version, which is used to produce Mountain Gold from Green Mountain Seeds. Very enjoyable smoke. Ive ran it twice with great success and the Hawaiian sativa influence is outstanding
www.aceseeds.org
Mountain Gold Regular - aceseeds
OAXACAN GOLD X HAWAIIAN SATIVA, FIRST BRED BY VERMONTMAN OF GREEN MOUNTAIN SEEDS
www.aceseeds.org
Zeta Reticuli
Active member
Have a few thousand beans of Hawaii Sativa from Federation seeds,i made repro,they fan leafes from bottom
usually goes yellow toward the end of flowering,they flower 12,13,14 weeks depends of pheno.Smell is on lemons,lemony,high is good,yield is pretty big,plants grows multiple long colas.
usually goes yellow toward the end of flowering,they flower 12,13,14 weeks depends of pheno.Smell is on lemons,lemony,high is good,yield is pretty big,plants grows multiple long colas.
I have some of those seeds. I started 2 seeds but others bumped them out so they got tossed.
Keep in mind comparing pics of weed 50 years ago to what we have today is not possible. Those images from the 70s that most post are poor examples of those plants true quality. I am a better grower today than I was back then. This also impacts how good weed was/is.
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True. But it's also easy to tell an obvious hybrid from a pure sativa, even if the pictures are grainy and the grower has evolved. What was once buds with long pistils, small calyxes, and a feathery look does not become short thick pistils, fat calyxes and a thick bud because of a grower's skills. I was in Hawaii when alot of the hybridization and replacement of the old strains happened . I also have family that grew on Hawaii island in the 70s and they would mention (ad nauseum) how different the Hawaiian then was to the mid 80s weed when my friends and I started smoking.
cola
Well-known member
I have some hawaiian crosses:
Kona Gold x original thai haze
Hawaiian Pakithai x original thai haze
or Hawaiian Webbed Indica/Molokai Frost x original thai haze
I love good hawaiian haze!
They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but in this case that is not the fact, cause that ain't Hawaiian.
Maybe you know the lineage of the haze in the mix, but definitely have no idea if it is pure Hawaiian Sativa.
The fact is that during green harvest almost none were able to keep pure strains. Everyone was borrowing.
And likewise any true Sativa that got there came from somwwhere else. So therre is NO Hawaiian Sativa.
You are not doing yourself any favors promoting something that you very obviously could not know about.
There is too much disinformation already in the mix. No one in modern times needs to add to that. Right?
what?
I have never said there is hawaiian landrace sativa, can you quote me on that? there are heirlooms which were preserved outside of islands though.
I said these are hawaiian crosses. not pure hawaiian.
heirlooms used in these crosses are true hawaiian heirlooms. it seems you dont know much about it. for example webbies, like webbed indica from Big Island or strawberry web from Maui. Molokai Frost is from Molokai Island and very well known hawaiian heirloom preserved at islands, nobody says it is pure sativa.
my Kona Gold cut came from seeds preserved in early 80s, and cut was selected in 1996. true hawaiian heirloom. again not pure sativa, but heirloom for sure.
Kona Gold,
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The Moloka'i Frost thread and more...:)
soooo, i have been kind of stoned lately, and thinking back to yesterdays when i actually had a thread about the Moloka'i Frost, and how it went south a couple of times due to this internet and growing pakalolo thing, soooo i been thinking that maybe i should get the word out about the Frost...
www.icmag.com
this is guy who really lives at Hawaii, and I see no reason why he would lie...CK2 said:
so everybody see that Hawaiian Webbed Indica originated in Puna. so thats why it is called Hawaiian. or how should we call it? it doesn't originate in Arizona, nor in Florida? so why we should call it Floridian? when it originates in Puna.... LOL LOL LOL
I quoted CK2 to show how this guy @cola is clueless, he has no clue about hawaiian webbies LOL
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cola
Well-known member
∧
You seem to think you're adept at dodging bullets. Just try genuine honesty instead. No need to dodge then.And, I NEVER said you called anything a Landrace Sativa. Those are your words to confuse, and to conver up.
Unless you grew on the islands personally you have no idea what is in your possession. I know. I lived there.
Your branding of anything as Hawaiian is dishonest & disingenuous. Every known seed came there recently.
And, they ALL came from somewhere else. Why not call what you got BS Weed. Cause that's what your selling.
I have no inclination that anything that I say will turn you around. You are far too into greed and to marketing.
maybe you can educate yourself in this thread:
/// this is not for you, but for other, not hating, people
Kona Gold pic I grew
versus old cans from Kona
that bud on can is very similar to mine in shape...
Hawaiian Sativas
Some questions were asked from a poster looking for a powerful, trippy psychidelic sativa strain. In my infinite wisdom...that's sarcasam... I mentioned that Hawaiian sativas should not be overlooked. Unfortunatly this exchange took place in a breeders thread. The last thing I want is to...
www.icmag.com
/// this is not for you, but for other, not hating, people
Kona Gold pic I grew
versus old cans from Kona
that bud on can is very similar to mine in shape...
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so all those guys who got federation hawaiian sativa or molokai frost or cherry bomb seeds are dishonest when they call it hawaiian? and can you tell us how we should call those lines? Polynesian? so we dont touch your belief?
bullshit yes, but yours... I dont sell anything what is branded as "hawaiian" LOL I dont sell hawaiian heirlooms, I only use them in crosses.
why dont you attack greenhouse seeds and blame them for being greedy, they sell their Hawaiian Snow for years - not true hawaiian heirloom, or nirvana seeds they sell their maui wowie for years - porbably hawaiian crossed with skunk#1. tha docta crossed HWIMF with OG Kush and called it Hilo Hammer, did you attack him too??? LOL
here is thread of good gear, can you chime in and say them, they are calling it hawaiian dishonestly? I am looking forward to their reaction:
Molokai Frost
Our Molokai frost seed results from a friend (xochapilli)grown indoors. Killer Hawaiian heirloom
www.icmag.com
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heirloomganja
Active member
if it was mexican or pure thai grown at Hawaii, there would be no need to call it hawaiian. but once it was hybridized at Hawaii, it would be nonsense to call it mexican or thai... and most old school hawaiians, which guys brought from Hawaii and preserved, not further outcrossed at continent, preserved outside of Hawaii - so it escaped CIA operations, are hybrids of mexican or thai with some indicas, @Thcvhunter says there is swazi in Boel Hawaiian too. so thats why we call it hawaiian as it was created, mostly at early 80s, at Hawaii. Molokai Frost was preserved at Hawaii, and it should not be outcrossed from 80s if we should believe the story. it contains good portion of indica.
it is simple taxonomy.
and indeed these hawaiian heirlooms have some common traits... and special vibe to it. and that makes it different to mexican, although fed hawaiian is pretty close to lemony oaxacans for example... but still there is something else, probably from fruity chitral and may be something else.
if some idiot thinks, that when you call something "hawaiian", it will sell like crazy, is idiot who has no clue about seed sales, and that idiot doesn't know that most people don't give a fuck about hawaiian hahahaha LOL most people are not familiar with hawaiian heirlooms, it is only for narrow circles of enthusiasts...
I remember like Positronics was selling "Hawaiian Skunk"... it was never more popular than skunk or afghanskunk, and fact that it was called hawaiian didnt help it anyway hahahhahaha so dont know where idiots got that idea that it is called hawaiian to sell it well LOL
I personally dont care if it is called hawaiian, but if it is special. some hawaiian heirlooms seem to me special, and some not...
but even now if some hawaiian guy will buy some seeds from continent, will cross with something else, and will breed it at Hawaii for few decades, it has to be called hawaiian heirloom necessarily even it is og kush x widow originally. but I guarantee you it will be different than any kush widow from continent and it will have special unmistakable vibe to it...
it is simple taxonomy.
and indeed these hawaiian heirlooms have some common traits... and special vibe to it. and that makes it different to mexican, although fed hawaiian is pretty close to lemony oaxacans for example... but still there is something else, probably from fruity chitral and may be something else.
if some idiot thinks, that when you call something "hawaiian", it will sell like crazy, is idiot who has no clue about seed sales, and that idiot doesn't know that most people don't give a fuck about hawaiian hahahaha LOL most people are not familiar with hawaiian heirlooms, it is only for narrow circles of enthusiasts...
I remember like Positronics was selling "Hawaiian Skunk"... it was never more popular than skunk or afghanskunk, and fact that it was called hawaiian didnt help it anyway hahahhahaha so dont know where idiots got that idea that it is called hawaiian to sell it well LOL
I personally dont care if it is called hawaiian, but if it is special. some hawaiian heirlooms seem to me special, and some not...
but even now if some hawaiian guy will buy some seeds from continent, will cross with something else, and will breed it at Hawaii for few decades, it has to be called hawaiian heirloom necessarily even it is og kush x widow originally. but I guarantee you it will be different than any kush widow from continent and it will have special unmistakable vibe to it...
I always find it interesting how heated the Hawaiian related threads become. There always seems to be a split between some of the people who have lived there and those who have acquired genetics from there at a certain point in time or have gotten them from a seed reseller. Here are the things I know (from seeing it or told from people living there with zero financial or reputational incentive to make me believe otherwise):
The earliest I remember the Web (I am assuming what is meant by the Hawaiian webbed Indica) and Strawberry Web on the East side of the Big Island was in 1994, when I returned from the mainland. Friends (born and raised in Hawaii and 2nd generation growers) that lived in Orchidland and Paradise Park were growing it. This does not mean it wasn't on the island before, it just means that it was the first time that I had heard the name. I also saw a few of the Strawberry Web plants growing in Paradise Park. The plants were 3 to 4 feet tall and were grown in grow bags so they could be moved under cover when Green Harvest would fly. The high (to me) seemed more of a hybrid than a pure Indica. I also tried the Web, but never saw it grow. Neither were memorable to me, because I don't like either the hybrid or Indica highs. It was a popular strain though, because it was well adapted to lower Puna, but would have rotted in Upper Puna (due to cooler temps and more rain). As a side note, my friend growing the Strawberry Web eventually gave it up and switched to growing the White Widow after it was introduced shortly after to the Big Island.
Another strain that I personally saw and grew in 1994 was Duckfoot (This is not a name that I made up, but a name that a friend (an older grower who I was growing with) called it. I remember this strain distinctly because of how odd the leaves were. The plants got up to 8 feet, leaves were dark green, and the buds were small and tight. In my opinion, this plant was a Sativa or a very Sativa expressing hybrid. I've read on this forum that this plant originated in Australia (if so, great). Another reason I believe it was more of a sativa was because it actually thrived in the forest in very wet conditions. There was also another plant that stood out (from the mostly sativa/sativa looking plants of unknown origin) and this was a very broad leaf, light green indica looking that grew to 6 feet or so and was really thick. This plant failed miserably and basically rotted away under the conditions. This plant was a bit of an anomaly because it got so large (in Hawaii), but looked so much like an Indica. The indicas I was familiar at the time (a few which I had gotten from the mainland) with would only get up to a foot tall. The seeds for the plants were gotten from a local breeder/collector (whom my older friend knew), who gave us a bag of mixed seeds from the Upper Puna and Ka'u area There were no labels or names, but a mix of seeds to see what would work best under the growing conditions. No one cared what the plants were called, only that they had the chance of making it in less than ideal conditions (in the forest, where hopefully Green Harvest wouldn't get to them).
Another named strain (and the only one that I kept) acquired from another friend was the Swazi. Whenever I refer to this strain, I purposely call it what I know it is and it's breeding place of origin. Swazi (Lower Puna IBL). I've mentioned this before, but It was acquired in the 1990's from a friend who had been growing it since the 80's in lower Puna. There is evidence of a Swazi strain (based on various old time posters) being present in the late 1970s in the 4 corners area of lower Puna. I think that one people involved with Good Gear mentioned it, but I could be mistaken. No idea if what I was given is the same and actually don't really care. I like the effects. There was also Swazi grown on the Waimea side and I once read a thread(here) about it being related to Kauai Electric.
There were plenty of other generic (no name) strains.
The earliest I remember the Web (I am assuming what is meant by the Hawaiian webbed Indica) and Strawberry Web on the East side of the Big Island was in 1994, when I returned from the mainland. Friends (born and raised in Hawaii and 2nd generation growers) that lived in Orchidland and Paradise Park were growing it. This does not mean it wasn't on the island before, it just means that it was the first time that I had heard the name. I also saw a few of the Strawberry Web plants growing in Paradise Park. The plants were 3 to 4 feet tall and were grown in grow bags so they could be moved under cover when Green Harvest would fly. The high (to me) seemed more of a hybrid than a pure Indica. I also tried the Web, but never saw it grow. Neither were memorable to me, because I don't like either the hybrid or Indica highs. It was a popular strain though, because it was well adapted to lower Puna, but would have rotted in Upper Puna (due to cooler temps and more rain). As a side note, my friend growing the Strawberry Web eventually gave it up and switched to growing the White Widow after it was introduced shortly after to the Big Island.
Another strain that I personally saw and grew in 1994 was Duckfoot (This is not a name that I made up, but a name that a friend (an older grower who I was growing with) called it. I remember this strain distinctly because of how odd the leaves were. The plants got up to 8 feet, leaves were dark green, and the buds were small and tight. In my opinion, this plant was a Sativa or a very Sativa expressing hybrid. I've read on this forum that this plant originated in Australia (if so, great). Another reason I believe it was more of a sativa was because it actually thrived in the forest in very wet conditions. There was also another plant that stood out (from the mostly sativa/sativa looking plants of unknown origin) and this was a very broad leaf, light green indica looking that grew to 6 feet or so and was really thick. This plant failed miserably and basically rotted away under the conditions. This plant was a bit of an anomaly because it got so large (in Hawaii), but looked so much like an Indica. The indicas I was familiar at the time (a few which I had gotten from the mainland) with would only get up to a foot tall. The seeds for the plants were gotten from a local breeder/collector (whom my older friend knew), who gave us a bag of mixed seeds from the Upper Puna and Ka'u area There were no labels or names, but a mix of seeds to see what would work best under the growing conditions. No one cared what the plants were called, only that they had the chance of making it in less than ideal conditions (in the forest, where hopefully Green Harvest wouldn't get to them).
Another named strain (and the only one that I kept) acquired from another friend was the Swazi. Whenever I refer to this strain, I purposely call it what I know it is and it's breeding place of origin. Swazi (Lower Puna IBL). I've mentioned this before, but It was acquired in the 1990's from a friend who had been growing it since the 80's in lower Puna. There is evidence of a Swazi strain (based on various old time posters) being present in the late 1970s in the 4 corners area of lower Puna. I think that one people involved with Good Gear mentioned it, but I could be mistaken. No idea if what I was given is the same and actually don't really care. I like the effects. There was also Swazi grown on the Waimea side and I once read a thread(here) about it being related to Kauai Electric.
There were plenty of other generic (no name) strains.
RobFromTX
Well-known member
In 1836, a newspaper article in “Ka Nonanona” was published, which told the story of a woman, who fell asleep after toking some sweet Pakalōlō, which resulted in the entire house burning down and killing a couple of people, including children. After this article, the Pakalōlō was coined as “Kapu” (forbidden).
Approximately 140 years later many landraces have become extinct due to Operation Green Harvest, which was commenced in the late ‘70s. The federal state and local narcotics officers were wasting taxpayer dollars on robbing the island of pure cannabis gems. There was a great diversity of landrace strains in Hawaii, they were called Kona Gold, Maui Wowie, Puna Buddaz, and Kaua’i Electric, before Operation Green Harvest,
Landrace strains are not “better” than modern strains. They have less diluted DNA. They’re closer to the original wild species than we have available today. Recessive traits show up far more often. When a landrace strain is removed from its indigenous environment and forced to grow elsewhere it has to mature in different growing conditions. In response to those new growing conditions, the plant will exhibit new characteristics. During that transition from the indigenous environment to new growing conditions, some of the characteristics of the original plant will be lost. To get those characteristics back, you’d have to return the plant to its native environment.
If you are breeding, using Landrace genetics is the best possible source.
Approximately 140 years later many landraces have become extinct due to Operation Green Harvest, which was commenced in the late ‘70s. The federal state and local narcotics officers were wasting taxpayer dollars on robbing the island of pure cannabis gems. There was a great diversity of landrace strains in Hawaii, they were called Kona Gold, Maui Wowie, Puna Buddaz, and Kaua’i Electric, before Operation Green Harvest,
Landrace strains are not “better” than modern strains. They have less diluted DNA. They’re closer to the original wild species than we have available today. Recessive traits show up far more often. When a landrace strain is removed from its indigenous environment and forced to grow elsewhere it has to mature in different growing conditions. In response to those new growing conditions, the plant will exhibit new characteristics. During that transition from the indigenous environment to new growing conditions, some of the characteristics of the original plant will be lost. To get those characteristics back, you’d have to return the plant to its native environment.
If you are breeding, using Landrace genetics is the best possible source.
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Capt Cook's mate and scientist was known for collecting and dispersing hemp varieties, as most shipping companies and Navies did so each port will have hemp for rigging should a ship need it when docked.
So yes, there would be some hemp cannabis grown on the islands.
However, when BOEL started scoping out the islands for their projects, starting around 1965, they did not report any cannabis there. So, they created their own lines.
Once LSD was outlawed in California, they set up operations in Colorado and Hawaii. Once Colorado outlawed LSD, Hawaii was their mecca.
1967/68 is when they got that one boat to bring shipments from Mexico to Hawaii to breed.
The reason for that was their first couple years on the islands taught them that Colombian-based lines, like Haze, did horribly on the Islands, so they looked to match Hawaii's latitude and decided upon Mexican and Afghan limes as the backbone of their breeding.
For the Jimi Hendrix concert in 69, they had their first line created. They mated their new Mexican x Afghan with their prized lines - Swazi x Thai and Jamaican.
From there, the lines were backcrossed to either Thai, Mexi, or Afghan. The Bx/Outcross to Afghan created the Maui Wowie.
The BOEL Hawaiian I was given to work expresses mostly Oaxacan traits, while line breeding also resulted in Afghan inspired stuff that is very much like BB/Flo. Once in a while, a Swazi dom plant emerges and is usually a creeper pheno - sprawls out along the ground much like that one Zamal that Don Mallard had years ago. Creeper phenos are known to pop up in southern Africans and some Mexis.
So yes, there would be some hemp cannabis grown on the islands.
However, when BOEL started scoping out the islands for their projects, starting around 1965, they did not report any cannabis there. So, they created their own lines.
Once LSD was outlawed in California, they set up operations in Colorado and Hawaii. Once Colorado outlawed LSD, Hawaii was their mecca.
1967/68 is when they got that one boat to bring shipments from Mexico to Hawaii to breed.
The reason for that was their first couple years on the islands taught them that Colombian-based lines, like Haze, did horribly on the Islands, so they looked to match Hawaii's latitude and decided upon Mexican and Afghan limes as the backbone of their breeding.
For the Jimi Hendrix concert in 69, they had their first line created. They mated their new Mexican x Afghan with their prized lines - Swazi x Thai and Jamaican.
From there, the lines were backcrossed to either Thai, Mexi, or Afghan. The Bx/Outcross to Afghan created the Maui Wowie.
The BOEL Hawaiian I was given to work expresses mostly Oaxacan traits, while line breeding also resulted in Afghan inspired stuff that is very much like BB/Flo. Once in a while, a Swazi dom plant emerges and is usually a creeper pheno - sprawls out along the ground much like that one Zamal that Don Mallard had years ago. Creeper phenos are known to pop up in southern Africans and some Mexis.
