Ca++
Well-known member
You want to judge my plants, and hope to blame something on the tap?
Ok... how many weeks
I have very few pics for beauties sake. What can you tell me about it.
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Lockout?
- Thread starter DanTheReggaeFan
- Start date
Ok... how many weeks
I have very few pics for beauties sake. What can you tell me about it.
DanTheReggaeFan
Active member
Haha yeah you're right, London based. I'll be honest I've never actually calibrated it. I calibrate my pH pen regularly but don't know why I never thought of doing this pen.
I'm guessing from the 0.7 EC and the water report saying 280 mg/l of CaCO3 I don't need calmag then and me adding it is whats causing the lockout?
Ca++
Well-known member
I have not seen a report from your area, but you have the same Ca as me. My water is moderately hard, about 0.4
A gram of salt in a liter of water, is EC2
If you have ice in the fridge, it might measure zero when melted. Or maybe you have a bit of rain coming (water butt?). You could do with seeing some water is zero, before chucking some salt in. You might need powder scales if you can only scrape the freezer compartment out
I guess you need a 12.? for calibration, but can at least check what's going on with a 2.0 solution. If your maths is good, you can make that 12.? you need. I forget the number, as I have never had a meter to calibrate
A gram of salt in a liter of water, is EC2
If you have ice in the fridge, it might measure zero when melted. Or maybe you have a bit of rain coming (water butt?). You could do with seeing some water is zero, before chucking some salt in. You might need powder scales if you can only scrape the freezer compartment out
I guess you need a 12.? for calibration, but can at least check what's going on with a 2.0 solution. If your maths is good, you can make that 12.? you need. I forget the number, as I have never had a meter to calibrate
Keep in mind the Scale on the meter matters. These will give different readings..
700 SCALE IS USED FOR PPM
500 SCALE IS USED FOR TDS
Before adding nutrients or supplements, check the baseline EC/PPM of the water. Hard water and PPM levels (.7 scale) may hinder growth. The use of RO filtered water is recommended.
700 SCALE IS USED FOR PPM
500 SCALE IS USED FOR TDS
Before adding nutrients or supplements, check the baseline EC/PPM of the water. Hard water and PPM levels (.7 scale) may hinder growth. The use of RO filtered water is recommended.
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DanTheReggaeFan
Active member
I have not seen a report from your area, but you have the same Ca as me. My water is moderately hard, about 0.4
A gram of salt in a liter of water, is EC2
If you have ice in the fridge, it might measure zero when melted. Or maybe you have a bit of rain coming (water butt?). You could do with seeing some water is zero, before chucking some salt in. You might need powder scales if you can only scrape the freezer compartment out
I guess you need a 12.? for calibration, but can at least check what's going on with a 2.0 solution. If your maths is good, you can make that 12.? you need. I forget the number, as I have never had a meter to calibrate
Shit. What a crap time to get a new freezer. Got a new one a couple weeks ago and the frost hasn't built up yet
I posted a pic of my water report a couple posts back. Don't get me wrong I believe everything you guys are saying and I thank you for your time but I just find it really weird I used to have great results in my old flat and now its gone to shit. And I'm pretty sure the water is the same because I literally moved across the road. I can see my old flat from my window.
I've only got a couple pics from my old grows but these were from the old spot.
Presuming the reader was correctly callibrated with callibration liquid...
0348 PPM / 500 = 0.696
So yes, this is on the 500 scale of PPM.
0.7 EC is even higher. You need to let at least allow the chloride in the water to evaporate at room temperature or higher for a day or more - which will measurably lower the pH and EC.
There are a lot of nutrients and micronutrients in the water. If you use a filter, those will have to be replaced. So you should keep the calmag in case you start filtering the water.
At 0.7 EC, you really don't need to use extra calcium.
I JUST VERIFIED ON MY GUARDIANS..
500 SCALE IS FOR TDS
500 SCALE IS FOR TDS
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420PyRoS
Well-known member
Something is different then. Even genetics will play a part.
In saline soils, excess ions frequently include chlorides, sulphates, bicarbonates, sodium, calcium and magnesium. The effects from the presence of all these ions on plant growth are generally evaluated by comparing the reaction of plants growing in isosmotic solutions of different salts. A generalization of the toxic effect of salts and ions is not possible due to the different responses among species and even among varieties of the same plant species (Richards, 1954).
Ca++
Well-known member
Didn't you say you did those under a 600 HPS, and now you use LED.Shit. What a crap time to get a new freezer. Got a new one a couple weeks ago and the frost hasn't built up yet
I posted a pic of my water report a couple posts back. Don't get me wrong I believe everything you guys are saying and I thank you for your time but I just find it really weird I used to have great results in my old flat and now its gone to shit. And I'm pretty sure the water is the same because I literally moved across the road. I can see my old flat from my window.
I've only got a couple pics from my old grows but these were from the old spot.
View attachment 18865965 View attachment 18865966 View attachment 18865967
I worked out your lighting around 850umol, but I don't know how big your old tent is to make a comparison. A 600 is ~1000umol at source, so in a typical 1.2s 1.44sqm, you get ~675 to light a meter. However the losses with an HID are greater than the 15% with LED, as a lot more has to reflect off something before it gets to the plants. Easily twice as much by my eye. Giving minimal illumination.
If the tent was a 1x1 it's still not as bright as your LED, and LED has a more blue weighted spectrum. Which our current thinking says is more stressful.
Your light has changed, and perhaps by a large margin
Ca++
Well-known member
More nonsense I'm afraid.
You can have an EC of 1
You can have a PPM of 1
You can't have a TDS of 1. It's not a measurement scale.
TDS is measured in PPM. The x500 factor is used when you have table salt in solution, and want to know how much by measuring the solutions EC. The meter, internally, will measure the EC (as that's all it can do) then x500 to give you a number. A number very close to the PPM of table salt required, to give that EC it measured.
At least it has EC/CF
I actually use CF myself, but talk EC online, because science.
420PyRoS
Well-known member
Ppm and tds is useless.
It's sure as heck won't tell you how much calcium or magnesium is in the water by %, just that the lower the EC generally means there has to be lower cal/mag and whatever else mixed in there. But who knows what the exact % of it all is. It differs everywhere you test. Like I said, someone's EC of 1 could be because it's chalk full of magnesium. Maybe calcium.... who knows? Maybe evaporate the water and test the dust
It's sure as heck won't tell you how much calcium or magnesium is in the water by %, just that the lower the EC generally means there has to be lower cal/mag and whatever else mixed in there. But who knows what the exact % of it all is. It differs everywhere you test. Like I said, someone's EC of 1 could be because it's chalk full of magnesium. Maybe calcium.... who knows? Maybe evaporate the water and test the dust
420PyRoS
Well-known member
@DanTheReggaeFan maybe check the EC in your run off water for us too
Maybe salty Arrrgggh'matey! Haha who knows ?
Maybe salty Arrrgggh'matey! Haha who knows ?
Ca++
Well-known member
Yes, the EC of your tap water, sometimes isn't enough information. Though it's a useful guide, that's generally enough information.Ppm and tds is useless.
It's sure as heck won't tell you how much calcium or magnesium is in the water by %, just that the lower the EC generally means there has to be lower cal/mag and whatever else mixed in there. But who knows what the exact % of it all is. It differs everywhere you test. Like I said, someone's EC of 1 could be because it's chalk full of magnesium. Maybe calcium.... who knows? Maybe evaporate the water and test the dust
EC is useful, where two people have the same feed, and talk about how much of it they use. Even different feeds, it's often close enough.
All on your ownsome, you might set up your tank with all your salts, knowing the exact PPM by weighing them into the tank individually. That's when you measure the EC. Over time, you might see the EC increase, and so add water. Or you might see it decrease, and add more of your balanced feed. You won't know exactly which bits of the feed decreased though. Almost certainly NPK in the greatest amounts. While other things have been barely touched. We can't tell with any meter. We just know to add more food, but occasionally change the barrel if it's recirculating. Or get some run off in drip.
PPM meters play no part in professional grows. Though home growers scaling up, might take their PPM meter with them. Right up to the day they get seen with it.
I must object to my own post here. The idea a tank must be changed, isn't exactly right. In practice, we will all run our tanks with mild excesses. Making everything available, and nothing particularly toxic. Just as long as we keep changing it.
There is another grow style. It's not for us. In this other grow style (which I have barely just heard of) we know what a finished plant will contain. So we put it in the tank, slowly but surely. The feed is on the shelf, in the tank, or in the plant. There is no waste of feed or water. This is space travel. P levels between 15 and 28ppm, depending on water use efficiency. Really... it's not even worth reading about for most of us. However, such papers are written by people that drop a lot of things we can use elsewhere. So I might look. First it's a wue thread though. I can't get near 3g per liter of water used. I'm barely half way there.
DanTheReggaeFan
Active member
My water report says the CaCO3 is 282 mg/l and Chlorides are 51.4 mg/l
I think it's a combination of me overfeeding Calmag and having my light too strong. I've always ran multiple strains per grow and this is the first time I've had this problem.
Yeah it was a 600HPS in a 1.2m. I think it's been a combination of overfeeding Calmag and having my light too strong. I'm gonna try turning my light down a give them a few waterings without any Calmag and see how it goes.
Ppm and tds is useless.
It's sure as heck won't tell you how much calcium or magnesium is in the water by %, just that the lower the EC generally means there has to be lower cal/mag and whatever else mixed in there. But who knows what the exact % of it all is. It differs everywhere you test. Like I said, someone's EC of 1 could be because it's chalk full of magnesium. Maybe calcium.... who knows? Maybe evaporate the water and test the dust
My water report says CaCO3 is 282 mg/l and Magnesium is 7 mg/l
@DanTheReggaeFan maybe check the EC in your run off water for us too
Maybe salty Arrrgggh'matey! Haha who knows ?
I'll be honest I just flushed all plants and forgot to check the first run off, only checked the last jugs runoff and that was the same as what went in so hopefully starting from scratch now.
It's funny because I wasn't actually using the meter this grow because I was just doing the same as I used to with my old grows. I only checked it once the problems started but going forward if I do use it it will be on the EC setting.
DanTheReggaeFan
Active member
My water report again if anyones interested
DanTheReggaeFan
Active member
So going forward I'm going to turn down my light and stop adding Calmag and see what happens. Thanks for everyone's help it's really appreciated ✌
PPM and TDS do not measure the same. EC has nothing to do with it as it doesn't use any scaling..
My plants will look like shit if I feed with my meter set to TDS. We don't feed our plants with 1PPM LOL. 1ec is not even close to the same as 1ppm lol. No clue what your measuring at 1ppm. We do not feed at such a low value using PPM or TDS. Using 1ppm is a meaningless example..
Measuring 500 PPM will only be 360 TDS which is way too low a feed . No one ever looks at the scale set on their meter. Ive seen this often. If it's set wrong(TDS) and you feed per the Nutes recommended PPM value you will screw your plants.
360 TDS raised to 500 TDS= 650 ppm way too much feed ..
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420PyRoS
Well-known member
I agree, multiple diff strain plants all acting up is saying something. Not genetics involved.
Sorry I didn't see that you had your water analyzed. I'm not really an expert on all this mumbo jumbo but maybe I can see if something stands out. But I doubt it's your water.
420PyRoS
Well-known member
TDS will measure dissolved salts an other crap that EC doesn't like pesticides and chemicals.
Some TDS and PPM are calculated by EC as TDS is a bit complicated. By your pic, both your TDS and PPM look to be converted by an EC calculation.
See what we care about I think is the salts. So we use EC as a true baseline of electrical conductivity change in water.
Who cares about TDS with chemicals and pesticides etc being detected.
Its about the salts locking up no?
