Living organic soil from start through recycling

[Toes.]

Oh yea, fall garden.

I'm thinking of growing some purple mustard greens this fall. I love mustard greens.

 

[BlueJayWay]

To deviate back onto topic here - I'm working on a proposal for running 12 lights in a warehouse the same way I run my garden at home. Even paying retail, I know I'm spending way less at home than I would going with bottled nutrients, etc., but whats the best way for me to determine accurate pricing on a warehouse production scale?

My initial thought is that 6 plants/light in beds would make it easiest to amend/recycle appropriately (with new beds subbed into the light space while the spent ones are recovering for 6-12 weeks). Ideally, I would like to feed botanical teas and compost teas - I don't see any reason I can't just scale up my home set up x 10 for this (from 5 gal to 50 gal), and maintain the same brew schedule.

Is there any practical difference when it comes to recycling soil and/or microbe activity if I increase the scale/recycle in a single heap? How is this traditionally approached in commercial environments?

I can't really give the answers you're looking for, I don't think LOL, but I would like to ask - are you looking at running no-till beds, or remove-remix-re amend each run?

I'm moving two of my lights to no-till areas, i have 4 tubs (18gal, just like the ones I think you have your "sick" babies in?) each get two plants and one tub is on it's third run without removing roots or anything.

On my recent harvest from 5gal paint buckets, I chopped 'em all at the base about an inch above the soil, a week later when I go to dump it all in a big pile and re amend/mix, well I usually have a "tough" time removing the main taproot from the rest, well this time they all just pulled right out of the soil, only the top 1/2" of stem/root under the soil came up, the rest was already being worked by the soil and decomposing, within a weeks time!

So I guess my point is, if you're not already, consider no-till beds with little to NO downtime between crops because the our little soil friends can work wonders without needing to break the cycle.

I picked up a #50 smartpot i'm going to try out, they have a whole box they'll give me a big discount on, I said give me a few weeks to see how this'll fit into the bigger picture....

As far as pricing, are you trying to figure for total costs - recycled soil vs. bottle fed? Maybe I'm misreading

****
" Ideally, I would like to feed botanical teas and compost teas - I don't see any reason I can't just scale up my home set up x 10 for this (from 5 gal to 50 gal), and maintain the same brew schedule."

I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work out fabulously

 

[ClackamasCootz]

IncredibleBoss

If you proceed with your initial plan then you will fail. Completely and totally.

A new science is at the forefront - here

HTH

CC

 

[BlueJayWay]

hehe, hehe, hehehe....

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

IncredibleBoss

If you proceed with your initial plan then you will fail. Completely and totally.

A new science is at the forefront - here

HTH

CC

Dammit Coot - hate when I can't tell if you're kidding!

 

[JoeDudeGuy]

Damn, I better throw away all of this simple-to-mix compost and sphagnum moss that is doing so well with no Fing around and do THAT INSTEAD !

Thanks Coot !!!!!

~ Phwew ~

 

[chief bigsmoke]

I can't wait to buy Shmalphy co. brewing kit...

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

I can't really give the answers you're looking for, I don't think LOL, but I would like to ask - are you looking at running no-till beds, or remove-remix-re amend each run?

I'm moving two of my lights to no-till areas, i have 4 tubs (18gal, just like the ones I think you have your "sick" babies in?) each get two plants and one tub is on it's third run without removing roots or anything.

On my recent harvest from 5gal paint buckets, I chopped 'em all at the base about an inch above the soil, a week later when I go to dump it all in a big pile and re amend/mix, well I usually have a "tough" time removing the main taproot from the rest, well this time they all just pulled right out of the soil, only the top 1/2" of stem/root under the soil came up, the rest was already being worked by the soil and decomposing, within a weeks time!

So I guess my point is, if you're not already, consider no-till beds with little to NO downtime between crops because the our little soil friends can work wonders without needing to break the cycle.

I picked up a #50 smartpot i'm going to try out, they have a whole box they'll give me a big discount on, I said give me a few weeks to see how this'll fit into the bigger picture....

As far as pricing, are you trying to figure for total costs - recycled soil vs. bottle fed? Maybe I'm misreading

****
" Ideally, I would like to feed botanical teas and compost teas - I don't see any reason I can't just scale up my home set up x 10 for this (from 5 gal to 50 gal), and maintain the same brew schedule."

I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work out fabulously

Yup - ideally, I want to put together a 'business plan' on paper that will anticipate all costs and predict production, and present a cost-benefit comparison against running the same lights in their typical hydro fashion.

 

[shmalphy]

IncredibleBoss

If you proceed with your initial plan then you will fail. Completely and totally.

A new science is at the forefront - here

HTH

CC

The farm I work at uses no irrigation, and nothing but compost to feed over 50 varieties of vegetables, and they have been harvesting watermelons and all kinds of brassicas, etc even in the heat and drought. I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it. The only thing that isn't doing well is the heirloom tomatoes, they are blighting, but the resistant varieties are yielding fruit.

Makes me realize how much I overdo things in my own garden.

 

[heady blunts]

i just returned home after being out of town for two weeks. i had a couple friends tag-teaming my veggie gardens to keep them watered and happy in my absence. unfortunately, i returned to find my container garden beyond parched.

i quickly gave everyone a drink before i went to bed, but when i woke up in the morning, it was clear that the soil was extremely hydrophobic and would take some special attention to return to health.

i decided it was time to try out coot and stan's advice on using aloe.

i cut a skinny 8" filet from the bottom of an aloe plant. put about 2 tablespoons of gel into about 2.5 gal of water. mixed well and applied.

it was cool to see how differently the water and the soil interfaced. it was clearly noticable. everything soaked in evenly, and there was none of that gushing from the run off holes that means that the water just ran down the sides of the pot or though a couple channels, while leaving the rest dry.

i came back after work and found the soil to be GLORIOUS. evenly moist, happy, living again. what a dramatic response! it was like it had been well watered during my entire absence!

this is how i will approach hydrophobic soil from now on.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Damn, I better throw away all of this simple-to-mix compost and sphagnum moss that is doing so well with no Fing around and do THAT INSTEAD !

Thanks Coot !!!!!

~ Phwew ~

"When you need a simple answer it's best to go with an expert - ask a simpleton" - Professor CC

Wize up!

 

[Gascanastan]

nothing like turning a big pile of steaming leaf compost first thing in the morning... makes a man feel alive!

View Image

mornin' gents...

I'm going to turn my compost..............

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

Wize up!

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha I just laughed uproariously in traffic - thanks, CC

 

[greenmatter]

I'm going to turn my compost..............

oooooohhhhmmmmm ......... good organic therapy


in the beginning of the thread you were talking about adding leaf litter to your soil mixes. what is your call on leaf mold? or do you see them as the same thing?

i know there are tons of bugs living in my leaf mold pile but everything growing around it always does great, so i don't think i'll be bringing bad bugs or plant pathogens in. i feed my worms a lot of leaf mold and aside from the occasional centipede or doodle bug i don't see anything in there that isn't in the worm bin anyway.

short version ..... leaf mold in soil mixes, yes or no?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

greenmatter

It's alway in my soil mix - a couple of quarts in 1 c.f. potting soil and about the same amount of 'real soil' from the raised beds. Diversity is always a good thing from my perspective.

But I'm still learning - heck just this morning I learned that transplanting should be done every 48 hours. That and check the pH of the run off!

CC

 

[greenmatter]

maybe you shouldn't read so much CC ......... or you should learn to like some really hard core indica ...... or both.

see the first line in my sig boss! it might help you chuckle instead of get a headache.

 

[Gascanastan]

oooooohhhhmmmmm ......... good organic therapy


in the beginning of the thread you were talking about adding leaf litter to your soil mixes. what is your call on leaf mold? or do you see them as the same thing?

i know there are tons of bugs living in my leaf mold pile but everything growing around it always does great, so i don't think i'll be bringing bad bugs or plant pathogens in. i feed my worms a lot of leaf mold and aside from the occasional centipede or doodle bug i don't see anything in there that isn't in the worm bin anyway.

short version ..... leaf mold in soil mixes, yes or no?

Yes...for every aspect that you can think of..fungus,,insects,....diversity.

 

[YosemiteSam]

To deviate back onto topic here - I'm working on a proposal for running 12 lights in a warehouse the same way I run my garden at home. Even paying retail, I know I'm spending way less at home than I would going with bottled nutrients, etc., but whats the best way for me to determine accurate pricing on a warehouse production scale?

My initial thought is that 6 plants/light in beds would make it easiest to amend/recycle appropriately (with new beds subbed into the light space while the spent ones are recovering for 6-12 weeks). Ideally, I would like to feed botanical teas and compost teas - I don't see any reason I can't just scale up my home set up x 10 for this (from 5 gal to 50 gal), and maintain the same brew schedule.

Is there any practical difference when it comes to recycling soil and/or microbe activity if I increase the scale/recycle in a single heap? How is this traditionally approached in commercial environments?

imo beds are the way to go...and better to use whatever amount of soil you can fit in the area and still be able to work. In other words yea 50 gallons would work but if you can fit 100 do it, if you can fit 200 do it. My warehouse is using 65 gallons per plant and I wish I had gone bigger

It does increase the initial cost but will be so worth it in the long run. At least the way I see it the more soil the more diversity you can have...to let the plant pick and choose, to fullfill its genetic destiny

It is the basic science of root cause analysis. Yea you can foliar and chase your own tail if you want (and lets face it, we all suck at that in the long run) or you can go to the root of it...your soil.


as always i could be wrong...that was just my opinion.

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

imo beds are the way to go...and better to use whatever amount of soil you can fit in the area and still be able to work. In other words yea 50 gallons would work but if you can fit 100 do it, if you can fit 200 do it. My warehouse is using 65 gallons per plant and I wish I had gone bigger

It does increase the initial cost but will be so worth it in the long run. At least the way I see it the more soil the more diversity you can have...to let the plant pick and choose, to fullfill its genetic destiny

It is the basic science of root cause analysis. Yea you can foliar and chase your own tail if you want (and lets face it, we all suck at that in the long run) or you can go to the root of it...your soil.


as always i could be wrong...that was just my opinion.

From a yield efficiency standpoint, would you go less plants/sqft or more? I was thinking of packing 5 plants in 2'x2' beds (each one would have 11 1/3" canopy space - ideally 4 colas/plant or 20 colas/bed) and then running 48 of these 2'x2's under 2 columns of 6 lights/column.

 

[YosemiteSam]

From a grams per watt point of view I do better with at least 4 plants per light. From a CO law point of view I get more total pounds without exceeding my limit at 1 plant per light...let your conscious be your guide.