Living organic soil from start through recycling

[Microbeman]

Organic Learner; Did you see this pointed out by Vortexpower..

http://www.noamkelp.com/

 

[ColorGRo]

So i have 6 plants in 12/12 on the 3rd week. Got some supplies for the soil but now I'm thinking since i have been using botanicare bloom and grow, should i finish these plants with them. Will making thesoiland trying to transplant and feed these teas (comfrey, barley, etc) even be of use since there is salt from the botanicare in there? Also I'm trying to find what somebody uses for cal/mag with RO water. Cant find the posts if anyone has mentioned it. my tap water reeks of chlorine. When u drink a glass its hard to drink it cause the smell of the chlorine. I let my water sit out in gallon jugs for 2 days before using but im wondering if i shoupd get an RO filter. Or i can buy 5 gallons of water from a local windmill/water source for $1.00. I'm guessing its RO water or filtered some way. Sure doesnt smell likechlorine and tastes really clean. It just doesnt say if its RO on the machine. It's like the machines u fillthe5 gallon jugs at walmart, etc. But its not in a store. Just in certain parking lots in my town.

 

[DuckDuckGoose]

Where do enzymes come from?

from soilquality.org

Sources of soil enzymes include living and dead microbes, plant roots and residues, and soil animals. Enzymes
stabilized in the soil matrix accumulate or form complexes with organic matter (humus), clay, and humus-clay
complexes, but are no longer associated with viable cells. It is thought that 40 to 60% of enzyme activity can come from stabilized enzymes, so activity does not necessarily correlate highly with microbial biomass or respiration. Therefore, enzyme activity is the cumulative effect of long term microbial activity and activity of the viable population at sampling. However, an example of an enzyme that only reflects activity of viable cells is
dehydrogenase, which in theory can only occur in viable cells and not in stabilized soil complexes.

 

[rrog]

Humus can bind enzymes along with cations

 

[YosemiteSam]

Where do enzymes come from?

That is a good question. If everything is working perfectly the microbes and plants create their own (i think which is always questionable).

Take humans for example...when we use to eat minerally balanced and dense foods did we need enzymes???

I will say enzymes have improved my plants...but to me that means I am not doing something right to begin with. To me root cause analysis is needed until I get to the point enzymes don't help.

But that is just what I am thinking...it may not mean a thing to anyone else.

 

[OrganicLearner]

MM,

Thanks no I didn't see that, it's the one that says soil conditioner that you want right? $45 + shipping sounds like it could be a good deal also. I still feel kinda skeptical about buying the other bag, just seems too good to be true.. Lol or I should learn to accept these good priced baggies..

 

[ClackamasCootz]

$45 + shipping

There's the deal killer. Shipping bags of anything through UPS is a silly mistake made by many suppliers. Accessorial charges are based, in part, by the carriers's potential liability with regard to damage claims. Bags rip open - it's an imperfect world.

Sheer laziness on their part - stick it in a box and get 'real world' charges. Bags are shipped on pallets and the bags are shrink-wrapped to limit damage and therefore lower freight charges will apply.

More than one start-up operation has failed by not learning how things work with carriers.

CC

 

[CT Guy]

I left these people a message on there site and they left me an email yesterday..

This is what I wrote to them with the quickness:

Hello I was wondering about the 50 lb. kelp meal you guys have listed here
http://naturs-way.netfirms.com/estore/nfoscomm/catalog/organic-kelp-meal-p-5
0.html

I was wondering if this is really pure kelp meal (ascophyllum nodosum) or is
it an extract from kelp meal? If it is real kelp meal since it says 66%
organic matter I was also wondering if there is any fillers that make up the
rest of the bag?
I am really interested in this product from you guys since it is the
cheapest I have found over the Internet so far..

Please get back to me thanks...

This is what they wrote back:

The kelp meal we sell is 100% Kelp from the northern Atlantic Ocean.* It is
simply fresh growing kelp that is harvested out of the ocean and then
naturally sun dried.* After drying, the kelp is gathered and ground into a
meal, then bagged.* Nothing is added to or taken away from the kelp except
water.

Thanks,
Dan
Natur's Way, Inc.
785-486-3302

Yeah, I still don't believe it. I buy feed and these ingredients wholesale and it's not that cheap. Not to mention the fact they're essentially shipping it for free. There's got to be something we're missing here.....Either they've got a sub par quality product they're making themselves or they're using fillers. I mean the shipping alone on a 50 lb bag would run around 35-50 bucks depending on where in the country you're sending it.....

 

[OrganicLearner]

CC

Yupp I was thinking the same thing when I seen the + shipping but then I read that they try to have the best lowest possible shipping or something to there customers, I thought hey if they can do as good as $5 that's cool but I doubt it..

 

[ClackamasCootz]

OrganicLearner

Jacking customers around with S&H charges is pretty standard and it's especially true in this deal.

The low price out of Kansas is easily explained - it's called geography

CC

 

[Neo 420]

So i have 6 plants in 12/12 on the 3rd week. Got some supplies for the soil but now I'm thinking since i have been using botanicare bloom and grow, should i finish these plants with them.

Honestly, I would complete your cycle with the botanicare but start working on getting proper soil built up to use for the next cycle. Jot down what you items you purchased and lets see what we can make happen.

Will making thesoiland trying to transplant and feed these teas (comfrey, barley, etc) even be of use since there is salt from the botanicare in there?

I do not know that answer. You may get benefits from using aloe sprays but I doubt if you get benefits from barley soaks because of interaction needed from living soil (anyone correct me if I am wrong). It wouldn't hurt to try though.....

Also I'm trying to find what somebody uses for cal/mag with RO water

Most living soil gardeners do not have the dreaded and hyped cal/mag challenges. Not saying it can't be a problem but by using crab meal, egg shells, ground clam shells, high quality compost, plant material, and even manures can ensure you don't run into those challenges. BTW I use RO water and haven't any issue with cal/mag.

Cant find the posts if anyone has mentioned it. my tap water reeks of chlorine. When u drink a glass its hard to drink it cause the smell of the chlorine. I let my water sit out in gallon jugs for 2 days before using but im wondering if i shoupd get an RO filter. Or i can buy 5 gallons of water from a local windmill/water source for $1.00. I'm guessing its RO water or filtered some way. Sure doesnt smell likechlorine and tastes really clean. It just doesnt say if its RO on the machine. It's like the machines u fillthe5 gallon jugs at walmart, etc. But its not in a store. Just in certain parking lots in my town.

You can use organic matter (such as compost) to help "decontaminate" your water. You can use RO water. Or you could buy from the machine.

I think it would be fundamental of you to read or re-read this thread from the start. Its long and tedious but the information is priceless.
P.S.
Don't get discouraged by what seems like complex concepts when actuality its just mother nature. (You'll need to scrub the ole nog'in of (dis?)information of MJ specific practices)
It actually starts to make sense the deeper you dig.....
Good luck!!

 

[Microbeman]

OrganicL: The feed and ag kelpmeal are the same. If you are in certain states shipping is in the price.

On the other one, I still worry about the word 'granules' Plus in the photo it looks light colored like bran, My kelp is really dark. You could ask them to mail you a sample baggy.

 

[think_fast]

my tap water reeks of chlorine. When u drink a glass its hard to drink it cause the smell of the chlorine. I let my water sit out in gallon jugs for 2 days before using but im wondering if i shoupd get an RO filter. Or i can buy 5 gallons of water from a local windmill/water source for $1.00. I'm guessing its RO water or filtered some way. Sure doesnt smell likechlorine and tastes really clean. It just doesnt say if its RO on the machine. It's like the machines u fillthe5 gallon jugs at walmart, etc. But its not in a store. Just in certain parking lots in my town.

ColorGro,


The suggestions Neo420 gave you are great.

Another suggestion is to purchase a powerful air pump and just oxygenate the heck out of your 5 gallon cholirnated water. I would suggest checking with your municipal water supply and asking them by email or phone if the water being pumped to your location has chlorine bonded with ammonia (ie. chloramine) or if its just free chlorine. My municipality publishes an annual Water Quality Report and you can read this for your area if its available to check exactly where your water comes from and how it's conditioned.

If it's just chlorine (which it likely is, but check to make sure) and not chloramine, then all you need to do is purchase a heavy duty pond air pump (not an aquarium pump) and bubble the shit out of your bucket for several hours. It is recommended to aerate for 24 hours, but with a strong enough pump (i.e. 50 lpm or higher) this can be achieved in less than an hour (according to reputable sources here on ICMAG ). This pump will also serve to heavily aerate your compost teas so it has a dual function. IOW, worth the investment. Can be found at online retailers for under $80. Check microbeorganics.com for pump model suggestions and details on exactly how strong a pump you will need to keep dissolved oxygen levels adequate for microbial life. Also, I would recommend investing in a disk shaped airstone/diffuser to reduce noise and diffuse air evenly.

 

[W89]

My Alfalfa Tea is starting to cloud up..take it that's a good thing?

 

[Weyenot]

You are correct in assuming I will be eating the wheatgrass. Without vearing the thread too far off topic (too late?) I don't yet have a definite game plan as to the method of consumption. Except if you count "whatever goes down easy" as a game plan lol. I've heard it does not go down easy, so some juice might assist here. If you know of delicious ways to mask the taste then I'd love to know!

Very quickly, and risking diverting the thread momentarily, if you (or CC!) know of any other elixers using other ingredients I'd love to hear them!

Wheatgrass like other grasses has alot of indigestible fiber so I would definitely suggest going the juice route; carrot, apple, celery and beet are good choices for adding nutrition and better taste to stronger tasting green juices, an example would be apple,celery, ginger and wheatgrass. I recommend checking out Dr Norman Walker for some great info on juicing and the nutritional benefits of many veggies. Due to the high fiber content it requires a special juicer that can be found for around 30 bucks or so, some cost more but a simple one works fine; as far as juicers for pretty much any other veggie goes, vitamix is as good reliable brand and you usually can find a used one for under a couple hundred. I suggest you check out Ann Wigmore's writing for more specific info on wheatgrass. I could go on for a while about this but I dont want to divert the thread; you are more than welcome to PM me when I reach the number of posts needed.

What you are doing is awesome, go for it brother!!

 

[Weyenot]

Sprouted Chia seeds and that's not a joke either. Amaranth & Quinoa sprouts are in the same class - what are sometimes referred to as 'superfoods'

Not my term necessarily but you can search that term and find information on these and other plant materials.

CC

I second the chia! Its a nice package of nutrients and makes a great addition to alot of different foods including baked goods, salad dressings and my favorite...smoothies !! If you soak them in water -which I do, overnight- they form a gel and can absorb quite alot of the water, so among other things they are good for use as a thickener. I found this book to be an interesting read http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Chia-Revival-Ancient-Wonder/dp/1583940405. Good note on the Amaranth and Quinoa, I have read alot of positive info on them. Hmmmm....I might just grow some amaranth this year
Thank you for sharing CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

W89

You posted a photo of the Alfalfa product in Post #5395 and I wondered if you could do me a favor and post any pertinent information on what is included with their Alfalfa pellets. The color is really throwing me off because every pelletized Alfalfa that I'm familiar with is very green shown in the photo I posted as a follow-up.

There's something else in the Alfalfa product that you're using. Which isn't necessarily good, bad or indifferent, just puzzling.

CC

 

[Weyenot]

invocation

I got it wrong before so do this: call the brew store and ask them which Barley is higher in enzymes. Or better yet come back to this thread later today because a lot of people here know the correct one to recommend.

Roots Organic uses a solid straight Sphagnum peat moss so you're not out there. It's their humus that is called into question. So amending this potting soil mix will move you in the right direction.

In the future if you need one of the best SPM products out there, i.e. Premier Peat from the Pro-Mix company you can go to the Ace Hardware web site, choose which SPM pack that you want and have it shipped to a local Ace Hardware store. You choose which one. The price that you see at the web site is all you will pay - there is no S&H charges. I looked at their prices recently and this is a great deal!

CC

Coot and invocation - after reading some about the use of barley in the brewing process it does indeed seem that the six row has more enzymes (if only a bit more at times, these ratios do vary with the crop) compared to the two. After reading some more after sharing that info, I read about a new variety of two row that has been bred that has more enzymes but is still being worked on and isnt all that available yet so it does still seem that the six row is the way to go but it definitely makes sense to ask the brew shop people, they should know.
Go for it invocation, these seed brews are AWESOME!!

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Weyenot

The Tibetan Purple Barley (almost heirloom) is what I'm using after I found an organic farmer in Idaho who grows this Barley. It looks more like a sweet rice variety than the barley we find at feed stores and home brew stores.

The bragging rights were enough to cause me to look for it! LOL

F*ck Science - Let's Dance!

 

[Weyenot]

invocation

I got it wrong before so do this: call the brew store and ask them which Barley is higher in enzymes. Or better yet come back to this thread later today because a lot of people here know the correct one to recommend.

Roots Organic uses a solid straight Sphagnum peat moss so you're not out there. It's their humus that is called into question. So amending this potting soil mix will move you in the right direction.

In the future if you need one of the best SPM products out there, i.e. Premier Peat from the Pro-Mix company you can go to the Ace Hardware web site, choose which SPM pack that you want and have it shipped to a local Ace Hardware store. You choose which one. The price that you see at the web site is all you will pay - there is no S&H charges. I looked at their prices recently and this is a great deal!

CC

I almost forgot, CC is the majestic earth brand comparable to Premier? I found that at the local HD and its 10 for 3cuft which sounds good to me, as long as its guality. The labels at least make it look good, 100% organic and all that, so I got some a few weeks back and have since mixed up a seedling soil (Gas's recommended recipe from earlier) and have also used it in a few trays of clones and all looks well so far, although I havent used the soil mix yet.