Living organic soil from start through recycling

[Heliopolis]

Good for you!

What stage are the plants at which you are going to apply this tea to?

CC

Only one plant at the moment. It's in late veg. I'm probably going to go to flower relatively soon. Are there particular times when it is advisable either to apply or not to apply this tea?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Are there particular times when it is advisable either to apply or not to apply this tea?

Heliopolis

I've applied them as close as 2 days out from harvest. Just more resin to drool over. And smell. The strain I grow can throw off some very high levels of smell regardless - this new & improved program elevates that even more.

Let us know what responses you see the next morning after application. I'm sure you'll be pleased with your efforts.

CC

 

[Heliopolis]

Excellent! I am wondering... How long does this tea last? Do you make a fresh batch for every use?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Here's the companion web site to the book What a Plant Knows - A Field Guide to the Senses by Dr. Daniel Chamovitz

To assure you that this is not hokum you can see from his bio that he's got the credentials and then some...

Daniel Chamovitz grew up in Aliquippa, Pennsylvania, and studied at both Columbia University and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, where he received his Ph.D. in Genetics. From 1993 to 1996 he carried out postdoctoral research at Yale University before accepting a faculty position at Tel Aviv University where he recently served as Chair of the Department of Plant Sciences. In 2002, Prof. Chamovitz was a visiting scientist at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle. He is currently the Director of the Manna Center for Plant Biosciences at Tel Aviv University.

Chamovitz's scientific career has been characterized by novel and field-defining research: As a Ph.D. student in the lab of Joseph Hirschberg he was the first to clone a gene involved in the biosysnthesis of beta-carotene. As a postdoctoral fellow in the lab of Xing-Wang Deng at Yale University, he discovered the COP9 Signalosome protein complex that was proposed then to be a master regulator of plant development. Later, Prof. Chamovitz's lab was the first to show that the COP9 Signalosome is also essential for development of animals. His lab in Tel Aviv has been spearheading the study of this important protein complex and has shown that it is likely involved in a number of human diseases including cancer. Prof. Chamovitz is among the most prominent researchers in this field and is often invited to give lectures at leading universities worldwide.

Daniel Chamovitz has published numerous peer reviewed original research articles and is on the editorial boards of several scientific journals. He is a member of the Faculty of 1000, Biology; has been interviewed in Ha'aretz, the daily paper of Israel; and has appeared on television news shows in Israel as a science commentator.

One of the most interesting books that I've read in the field of Botany......

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Excellent! I am wondering... How long does this tea last? Do you make a fresh batch for every use?

Do. Not. Try. To. Store. These. Teas.

Fermentation = Alcohol = Death of Plants

CC
V.O.E.

 

[shmalphy]

Fermentation does not necessarily mean death of plants...

I am a big fan of fermented plant extracts, some of those can be left for very long periods of time. Some people have brews that are over 2 years old.

They recommend 500-1 dilution for FPE's

I tried storing some for a week in the fridge mixed with coconut water that has citric acid, and aloe, but the effects were not the same.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

some of those can be left for very long periods of time. Some people have brews that are over 2 years old

Aren't you talking about LAB fermenting?

 

[Gascanastan]

Hey Mr. shmalpy...what amount of citric acid to what amount liquid?

 

[Gascanastan]

Gascanastan:

What is your approximate plant spacing?

I realize it must be inconsistent, being that you run several cultivars at once, but I am trying to get a rough feel for canopy per 5 gallon bucket of ROLS as I redesign my space.

Thanks

You are correct,it is inconsistent due to cultivar. Some types of foliage spread approximately 1 1/2 to 2 ft out from the circumference of the pot whilst other types manage to stay within a few inches of the perimeter of the pot.
Although we have cards for 45 plants,we only have room for 30 to 35 five gallon pots with larger plants in a 28 x 12 space. The best ones w/all the tops are about 4 feet around with about 2 to 3 inches of space between other plants...just enough for air flow.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Microbeman

Here's what I understand about molasses in the EM-1 (LAB) fermentation process. Correct me where I'm off base and I'm only asking about carbohydrates and not the Elements and other benefits found therein.

1. Two carbohydrates in molasses are Glucose (C6 H12 O6) and Fructose (C6 H12 O6) with differences being found only in the molecular structure and not the molecular formula

2. In the fermenting process these carbohydrates are broken down providing food which increases their numbers - in other words fructose and glucose (or any other carbohydrates) no longer exists as such but are now Elements, i.e. the molecular structure is gone.

3. A carbohydrate in this context is a Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen compound where Hydrogen is 2x that of Oxygen, i.e. Cx H20 O10 or Cx H18 09 etc.

Do I have this correct?

CC

 

[BlueJayWay]

Heliopolis

I've applied them as close as 2 days out from harvest. Just more resin to drool over. And smell. The strain I grow can throw off some very high levels of smell regardless - this new & improved program elevates that even more.

Let us know what responses you see the next morning after application. I'm sure you'll be pleased with your efforts.

CC

Yesterday, Over a couple hours from applying to soil - I actually watched those same humongous fan leaves rise to the praying position, and those things have weight!

In regards to praying leaves, I notice the strongest response when applied first week or two of flower, and more often than not the leaves remain permanently in that position - it's awesome if for no other reason than to allow more light penetration.

 

[Microbeman]

Microbeman

Here's what I understand about molasses in the EM-1 (LAB) fermentation process. Correct me where I'm off base and I'm only asking about carbohydrates and not the Elements and other benefits found therein.

1. Two carbohydrates in molasses are Glucose (C6 H12 O6) and Fructose (C6 H12 O6) with differences being found only in the molecular structure and not the molecular formula

2. In the fermenting process these carbohydrates are broken down providing food which increases their numbers - in other words fructose and glucose (or any other carbohydrates) no longer exists as such but are now Elements, i.e. the molecular structure is gone.

3. A carbohydrate in this context is a Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen compound where Hydrogen is 2x that of Oxygen, i.e. Cx H20 O10 or Cx H18 09 etc.

Do I have this correct?

CC

Coot,

Someone else is going to have to address the chemistry specifics of your questions. I don't feel qualified.

What I can say is that #3 sounds accurate to me and if by "increases their numbers" you mean bacterial and yeast numbers that is also correct. The molasses acts as a food/carbon source for the stock microorganisms. The potential hydrogen goes up initially as the bacteria multiply and then goes back down as the ratio of yeast and bacteria stabilizes (or so I surmise). Once stabilized there should be little to no smell of molasses. I maintain temperature above 94F to limit alcohol production.

I still wonder about the alcohol production potential with some FPE recipes.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Coot,

Someone else is going to have to address the chemistry specifics of your questions. I don't feel qualified.

What I can say is that #3 sounds accurate to me and if by "increases their numbers" you mean bacterial and yeast numbers that is also correct. The molasses acts as a food/carbon source for the stock microorganisms. The potential hydrogen goes up initially as the bacteria multiply and then goes back down as the ratio of yeast and bacteria stabilizes (or so I surmise). Once stabilized there should be little to no smell of molasses. I maintain temperature above 94F to limit alcohol production.

I still wonder about the alcohol production potential with some FPE recipes.

Microbeman

Same with me and here's the why on another level.

Fermentation

Virtually all beverage alcohol is produced by various species of the genus Saccharomyces. This genus belongs to a group of fungi known as yeasts. Like all fungi, yeasts lack chlorophyll and cannot manufacture their own food.

Although many fungi can carry out fermentation, species of Saccharomyces are generally used because they are comparatively efficient at alcohol production and can tolerate higher levels of ethanol than can most fungi. Also during fermentation they produce compounds other than alcohol that are believed to influence the final flavor of the fermented liquid.

The species of Saccharomyces that are used for alcohol production, primarily S. cerevisiae and S. uuvarum are able to ferment sugar into ethanol under anaerobic (oxygen-free) conditions, usually in a solution.

Species of Saccharomyces live by ingesting sugar produced by other organisms. Only simple sugars (monosaccharides or disaccharides) can be used by these yeasts. (Monosaccharides are the most common type of sugar found in nature; disaccharides include sucrose, table sugar, and maltose, a sugar important in the making of beer).

Yeast cannot effectively metabolize starch even though starch is composed of units of sugar molecules. Consequently, in the production of all fermented beverages, the material that is to be fermented must contain natural mono- and disaccharides that have been produced by enzymatic degradation of starches. So, enzymes in some form must be added to almost anything that is fermented except honey and some fruit juices.

During the process of fermentation simple sugars are broken down via a number of intermediate steps into ethanol and carbon dioxide. From the yeast's point of view, these are waste products.

As the yeast culture grows and metabolizes more and more of the sugars in the liquid, carbon dioxide builds up and causes the solution to become bubbly. This gas is often allowed to escape from the solution. With unlimited sugar, the alcohol level increases during fermentation until it reaches a concentration between 12 and 18%. Levels of alcohol above 18 or 19% are usually toxic to the yeast and leads to the death of the cells. This tolerance limit laces an upper value on the % of alcohol produced solely by fermentation. Achieving a higher percentage of alcohol requires that the solution be fortified by adding more concentrated alcohol or by distillation.

So for sake of discussion, does this make sense to you? Just for discussion.

I think I can bring this 'fermented plant extract' issue home quickly.

CC

 

[Heliopolis]

Do. Not. Try. To. Store. These. Teas.

Fermentation = Alcohol = Death of Plants

CC
V.O.E.

Haha, I see. I will be sure to let you guys know my results. Many thanks.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Helio

Was Millet included in the bird seed product that you purchased?

CC

 

[Heliopolis]

It's a combination of White Proso Millet, Milo, Wheat, Sunflower, and little bits of calcium carbonate. I was just looking for something pretty basic. Most everything else had a lot of "extra" ingredients.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Did the Sunflower seeds sprout for you?

 

[rrog]

Given that a uber Vermicompost is the backbone of a soil, I'd like to start and have just a couple questions:

Can you add clay powders, Crab Meal powder and Agsil 16 to the Worm Bin? Can't see why not but I haven't seen this mentioned specifically.

Are dried greens of value in the winter? I don't have fresh horsetail, yarrow, etc.

What is a good worm bin to purchase for small production? Any favorites? Maybe CT sells one?

Thank you. The engineered vermicompost is very exciting.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

rrog

Define small production in the amount of square feet you want to set aside for this.

I add basalt (previously glacial rock dust), neem and crab meal. That's pretty much it but I have considered adding small amounts of the freeze-dried aloe vera powder - LOL

This year I dried Yarrow, Comfrey, Epazote and Thyme with the same care that I do with cannabis flowers and then stored them the same way in jars and in a dark closet for the same reasons: to preclude the degrading of the compounds like THC and related compounds.

CC

 

[CT Guy]

Given that a uber Vermicompost is the backbone of a soil, I'd like to start and have just a couple questions:

Can you add clay powders, Crab Meal powder and Agsil 16 to the Worm Bin? Can't see why not but I haven't seen this mentioned specifically.

Are dried greens of value in the winter? I don't have fresh horsetail, yarrow, etc.

What is a good worm bin to purchase for small production? Any favorites? Maybe CT sells one?

Thank you. The engineered vermicompost is very exciting.

I can't say that I would endorse any of the worm bins on the market. I use a Can O Worms and it seems to hold a bit more than the Worm Factory. I would recommend trying the large Smart Pot option. Coot likes these guys I believe, though you would have to be in the OR/WA area (http://www.northwestredworms.com/Pages/CedarCompostBins.aspx)