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Living organic soil from start through recycling
- Thread starter Gascanastan
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Earth Juice...juice of the Earth...what miracles await the human experience that you can buy in a gallon jug.
Blue Orca is a F1 cut from 1984.....NLH is an F2 male from 1991.
I think Coot describes the origins of these types somewhere in this thread,but good luck searching page after page with so much chit chat yada yada bla bla my cock is bigger than yours shit we do here.....
Anyway...
I've done more crosses with TO than BO...and there's one thing I'm seeing from the only 3 BO crosses compared to the many crosses done with TO.
TO seems to have offspring with phenotypes that vary greatly....while BO produces offspring that look much more uniform.
The BO x BMR line was gifted to Mr.Greengenes who will no doubt do some work on it. After the first few beans yeilded a female with a shaggy appearance that he seemed to really dig.....he named the cross 'Cousin It'....S. Cal.
The BO x Cherry Bomb looks pretty uniform as well...beans were sent to testers who describe better uniformity than the TO crosses.
Sooooooooo it is again with these BO x NLH.......I'd say that the BO is more stable for breeding than TO....but that's not to say that out of all the TO crosses you aren't going to find something phenomenal.
As for seed for donation to server fund.....
I am working on a couple lines for that,which if all goes well should be ready next year...mainly a TO x BMR Bx....AKA 'Kasmala Moon' and the Kali Mist x Burmese/Cherry Bomb...AKA 'Vandana Shiva'
Maybe the Space Cheese/BMR x (Cheesquake x Space cheese/BMR) as well...we'll call that 'Moonpuppy' for short.
I will not breed with F1 plants (that I make myself) that are PM prone or plants that suck in any way ....so this takes a while to find parents with the traits I expect combined with that PM resistance .with the exception of Subcools bullshit...that TGA shit always gets PM...right outta the seed~
I search for decent yields,pleasant effect,,strong stemmed,disease resistant,resin coated,flowers that are not too dense..or too loose,colorful,smelly,easy trimming,great bag appeal,and a fair flowering range.
If anyone want's to find out whether or not a plant is PM resistant....grow it in the PNW and you'll know in a week or two...easy.
The NLH is PM resistant and known for it's high yield,Haze effect,and hybrid vigor.
The Blue Orca is known to me a s serious medicine...just top notch medicine really..1 hit and 'well being' becomes you. BO is not exactly PM resistant.
It looks like the BO x NLH F1 kids are loaded with some killer vigor...these are strong and fast beautiful plants....already some want out of the 1 gallon pots a week later.
This qualifies as Polyhybrid...yet the arrangement of this type of poly makes it special. The parents,although being of mixed origin...are not a massive bunch of types mixed together in a closet over the years...these are undisturbed by pollen chuckers. They exhibit more of a hybrid trait....no selections were done past Coot or Neville with these two parents....both qualify as pre-1990 genetics....with documented origins back beyond the 80's.
So....the few people that have the beans will notice what I did the first time I tested 4 females. Half were PM resistant and all had a bit of stretch in flower,but I would call that average.
Plants have a sativa dominant profile regardless of the fat leaves that the two strong ass Indica's put in the mix. Super sweet lemon smell.....like Lemonheads candy.
Sativa type smoke...which I preferred this smoke over any heavier Indica in my jugz for sure...such as TO herself..or TO x BMR.
I'd say it's something like a 60% sativa/40% Indica....or thereabouts.
As for releasing BO x NLH seed....I dunno man..I don't feel that's my call.
I await the day you release them beans. I will definitely be picking up what I can!!!!!
^this
^ this too
This answers my question, but what I don't get is; wouldn't that be an F3 BO x NLH, unless each had been stabilized by back crossing into a true breeding line?
This is the piece of breeding I am still trying to wrap my head around...
Since they are a male and female of different origin the offspring would be F1...
Grow out the F1 seeds and select a male and female from those and breed them...the offspring are F2. Grow the F2's out and select from those offspring....and so on to F3 and so on to F4....this is line breeding.
OK, I thought that those were s1, s2, s3 etc, and that was how you took a heterozygous f1 and made it into a homozygous pure bred. Then you can take two homozygous purebreds and make an f1...
edited to say that I remembered that s stands for selfed or feminised seeds....
edited to say that I remembered that s stands for selfed or feminised seeds....
I always thought the term 'S1' as relating to cannabis,was the result of a 'selfed' (treated with CS or whatever) female cut only. The male flower's pollen used to make seed (which will all be female.....meaning 'feminized') for a new generation of female plants that could possibly express more genetic variance than the cut only mother.
I wonder how it would work saving pollen from the original male and pollenating subsequent generations of females hypothetically speaking.
When I was a kid I created a pure black tail fancy guppy by breeding the original male with his daughter > granddaughter > great granddaughter > great great grandaughter
> great great great granddaughter.... did not keep my notes so can't remember how many generations it took to get almost all blacks. Mad scientist even then.
When I was a kid I created a pure black tail fancy guppy by breeding the original male with his daughter > granddaughter > great granddaughter > great great grandaughter
> great great great granddaughter.... did not keep my notes so can't remember how many generations it took to get almost all blacks. Mad scientist even then.
So if I treated TO with Colloidial silver...I would (if that was my trip) hopefully produce male pollen from TO and pollentate a healthy TO mother....which would make all female seed with the chance that other pheontype variances show up...which means you may get a 'better' cut of TO.
Not to mention this is also the way to test for stability.....do all the feminized seed offspring look uniform...or not?
LOL at feminized TO.......not from this guy~
Not to mention this is also the way to test for stability.....do all the feminized seed offspring look uniform...or not?
LOL at feminized TO.......not from this guy~
The reverse backcross.?
I've thought about that...considering that I have and keep alive the original 1991 F2 NLH male.
There's guys out here on IC that know a hell of a lot more than I do about this stuff....namely those who know and understand or live and breathe Mendel's law.
Chimera has a good understanding of these things...and will actually give you tips if he's in a good mood.....as does Mr. Greengenes....and what's that other guy's name...Tom...something..??
Aside from my "misremembering" of the s1 thing, what I said is still true about making f1 seeds..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1_hybrid#Production_of_F1_hybrids
Two populations of breeding stock with desired characteristics are subject to inbreeding until the homozygosity of the population exceeds a certain level, usually 90% or more. Typically this requires more than ten generations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1_hybrid#Production_of_F1_hybrids
Two populations of breeding stock with desired characteristics are subject to inbreeding until the homozygosity of the population exceeds a certain level, usually 90% or more. Typically this requires more than ten generations
F1 is first cross AFAIK. eg. poodle x lab = F1 Labadoodle so not stabilized and not a (registered) pure bred.
One could then proceed as I did with the guppies for inbred pure breds or cross out for hybrid purebreds (maybe)
For plant breeding I prefer natural selection, keeping and planting seeds from the strongest offspring. Not very scientific but I've ended up with two 'cultivars' (in my world) from three different species which I was very happy with. One was developed over 15 years (indica - lost in the 2005 round up), another 7 years (papaver somniferum - now lost to rats) - 5 years (tomatoes still in the freezer)
One could then proceed as I did with the guppies for inbred pure breds or cross out for hybrid purebreds (maybe)
For plant breeding I prefer natural selection, keeping and planting seeds from the strongest offspring. Not very scientific but I've ended up with two 'cultivars' (in my world) from three different species which I was very happy with. One was developed over 15 years (indica - lost in the 2005 round up), another 7 years (papaver somniferum - now lost to rats) - 5 years (tomatoes still in the freezer)
Yes...for true breeding hybrids. A cross is just a cross until the work is put in to find the hyrbrid trait and breed true to that considering that you can actually find two parent plants of unrelated genetic origin.
But anyone can still fuck around with line breeding the F1,F2,F3 generations etc down the line....not even knowing or aware if they are homzygous parents until the offspring show stability or not.
This is the biggest problem I face...not enough room and time. It takes so much freeking time to find the hybrid trait and breed true to it....you need massive populations.
The best thing I can do is use two parents of known unrelated genetic origin and line breed my selections. There should be a strong hybrid trait popping up more often than not...and after a few generations and cycles of flowering I will be able to identify which plants possess this trait.
But anyone can still fuck around with line breeding the F1,F2,F3 generations etc down the line....not even knowing or aware if they are homzygous parents until the offspring show stability or not.
This is the biggest problem I face...not enough room and time. It takes so much freeking time to find the hybrid trait and breed true to it....you need massive populations.
The best thing I can do is use two parents of known unrelated genetic origin and line breed my selections. There should be a strong hybrid trait popping up more often than not...and after a few generations and cycles of flowering I will be able to identify which plants possess this trait.
...what sucks is this isn't like using distinct types of peas to find the hybrid trait. Cannabis is a bit more difficult to separate into phenotype as compared to Mendel's peas.
That is why I generally don't breed, unfortunately, or even go strain hunting anymore since a few "feminized" debacles. I don't have access to the space outdoors and don't want huge numbers of non production plants on a tiny indoor setup...
I can honestly say I have never once paid for seeds or a clone until a few months ago, when I split a 5 pack of TGA Subcool Chernobyl at a festival that was $50, mainly because I liked the kid selling the beans and wanted to support him. The reason I got them was to inbreed a strong male a few generations for studding.
I have 4 females and a male. I am making seeds to find a strong male, which I will backcross to the strongest female out of the first 4, then repeat for several generations. Not having access to true breeding landraces, I figure that stabilizing a strain for a few generations looking for strong males is my next best bet to get my f1 Deep Funk from Bodhi (Sour D x Deep Chunk) into seed form and have a pure breeding male to make f1s with in the future if I ever get a true breeding female, (if one even exists anymore).
The plants are all being grown indoors under window light, at a top secret offsite location lol, and it is really just an experiment to get some seed stock together "for an emergency" or possibly to go play Johnny Appleseed with, who knows....
I can honestly say I have never once paid for seeds or a clone until a few months ago, when I split a 5 pack of TGA Subcool Chernobyl at a festival that was $50, mainly because I liked the kid selling the beans and wanted to support him. The reason I got them was to inbreed a strong male a few generations for studding.
I have 4 females and a male. I am making seeds to find a strong male, which I will backcross to the strongest female out of the first 4, then repeat for several generations. Not having access to true breeding landraces, I figure that stabilizing a strain for a few generations looking for strong males is my next best bet to get my f1 Deep Funk from Bodhi (Sour D x Deep Chunk) into seed form and have a pure breeding male to make f1s with in the future if I ever get a true breeding female, (if one even exists anymore).
The plants are all being grown indoors under window light, at a top secret offsite location lol, and it is really just an experiment to get some seed stock together "for an emergency" or possibly to go play Johnny Appleseed with, who knows....
Sounds like you have a plan....go for it~
EJ catalyst straight out of the bottle the PH is around 4.
Dyna ProTekt Silicate if used at 1/2 tsp per gal makes my ph above 8
So why is it that when I was only using straight water this summer, my plants showed me that the PH of my water had changed by showing lock out defs? Everything was fine then suddenly there were problems. I was stumped cause my soil was on point, ACT was used regularly. Checked the water PH it was 5.1 started adjusting the PH and bam, things were back on track. Maybe I didnt have enough biological activity in the soil? Ill get to reading the rest of the responses and see what I can figure out...
Thanks for the reply.
What type of water were you using? Treated city water or well/rain???
well water. shallow hand dug 40ft.
YoSam,
are these the Albrecht ratios you were talking about?
60-70%Ca, 10-20% Mg, 2-5% K, 0.5-3%Na, 10-15% H
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