little white bugs

[KRS Juan]

No problem, that place (NaturesControl.com) is where I get all my benificial insects from. Inexpensive and quick shipping.

-KRS Juan-

 

[Guest]

Mo, KRS, and G13, thanks so much for your input and help.

After looking at the link KRS sent I think that they are looking alot like the Mites except they are bleach white in appearence and extramly active. Maybe aphids.

What if you treated budding plants with the the intent to water cure or similar to leach the residual out and off the buds at the end of harvest?

G13, great info, I need to read it a couple more times to let it sink in a little better, thanks

I bought a product called "Garden Safe Fungicide 3 concentrate" from Shultz. It claims to control black spot, rust, powdery mildew, controls white flies, aphids, spider mites, and red mites as well as a whole slew of other bugs. It says its safe for fruits and vegetables so I assume it's safe for consumption but not sure about smoking. Let's hope this does the trick, if not it's on to G13's list of solutions.

How are the spread? do they jump from plant to plant, crawl from leaf to leaf or what?

Thanks again gang

Tex

 

[KRS Juan]

If they are mites, the schultz fungicide 3 will do nothing to them, but as long as you water it down a little it wont hurt your plants either.

Mites spread whatever way possible, jumping, climbing, even floating in the breeze.

Wrapping tape, sticky side OUT, around your stem will catch any trying to climb up from the soil.

I have not seen aphids in any color but green, but theres probably variation out there.

When mites are young they are much whiter than when they mature. Catch them now or loose everything. I learned the hard way and lots a bunch of really rare mothers.

-KRS Juan-

 

[Guest]

Mites those fuckers.... almost impossible to get rid of. you will KNOW that they are mites if you see webs all over your plants.... if it was a total loss , and they were mites you would have seen web no question. they spin that shit all over the cola's leaves EVERYWHERE...... leaves yellow out and get kinda crispy, with lots of little specs on them, they may curl under a bit... inside of some of the curled leaves you'd see webbing , mites and eggs.

You will notice spider mites first on the undersides of your fan leaves, or smaller leaves that are in a nice warm spot under your light.

Once you are flowering there really is nothing you can do to get rid of mites that wont fuck up your buds in the end.... mites taste better than neem.

best thing is to try and take as many infected leaves off the plants and get those bastards out of the room, neem the shit out of your mothers , and once your flower run is done mist your flower room down with a light bleach mixture.... get rid of your growing medium, buy new.

If you do have mites, DO NOT WAIT AROUND, they will own the room in short order. Kill as many as you possibly can stand to, and be on constant mite watch until your last day of flower

......


anyway hope that helps..... but Tex, if you did not see any webs spun in your buds ..... I doubt they're mites. Especially if there were enough of them to cause you to lose plants. If you sit and watch em for a while... they will crawl around on the leaves, gnats do not live in your plants..... but white fly's do.... it maybe whitefly's, in which case you're lucky it aint mites!

THC

 

[Guest]

Thanks KRS, I grow full on hydro, so where do ya think they came from?

Come to think of it I put my new TW mother in a soil mix a couple of months ago and I used some soil that I had laying around for awhile, quite possible they came from there. I also have a fresh air inlet into the grow rooms that could have contributed.

Is there any reason to bleach wash the walls and floor or anything that intense?

I was thinkin(can be dangerous) that I use Rapid Rooters as my starter substrait and I have on occasion observed some little critters running around but didn't give it much thought. What is the gestation period from start to finish?

What is a good plant friendly mite poison? you metioned Avid3, is that a specialty product or is it widely available? maybe at the hydro store...

Headin home in a bit to do battle with the bitches.

Thanks again

Tex

Tex

 

[Guest]

a good way to help control a serious mite problem is to shower down your flowering plants in regular water

they're so small that if any hits them they'll just get washed right off.... other than that i can't reccomend any insecticide on a budding plant.

THC

 

[Guest]

No webs at all

What do the whitefly larve look like? maybe thats what I am seeing because I have seen whiteflies in the past but they were already in the fly around stage.

I would hate to scrap this whole flower room but if that's what it takes, it's only grade AAA hydro .......bad cabbage if it's got bugs though

Tex

 

[baccas125]

This is what i buy same thing as mosquito dunks. I find this at Lowes home improvement.

 

[Guest]

i wouldnt go scrapping it... talk to jubei about how to deal with mites, that cat has a bajillion of em lol... seems he pulls some decent buds down in spite of all those lil bastards, but it's really getting bad now...

can't say that I know what whitefly larva looks like , sorry mang .... that's one bitch i havent had to deal with yet.

if you do a perpetual harvest .... that sucks.... might end up having to get everything finished off and clean up the room proper if you wanna get going again without your lil buddies hopping on for the ride...... but I'm only speaking for mites, honestly not sure what to do about them nasty flys ;\

but i'd say if you don't see webs no way is it mites.... mites are just like lil spiders, sept they eat plants instead of other bugs.....

i dont even know where white fly's lay their eggs..... but if you have nasties in your Resivoir, a bit of SM-90 should do the trick.

THC

 

[KRS Juan]

"Thanks KRS, I grow full on hydro, so where do ya think they came from?
Come to think of it I put my new TW mother in a soil mix a couple of months ago and I used some soil that I had laying around for awhile, quite possible they came from there. I also have a fresh air inlet into the grow rooms that could have contributed."

I got mine from a clone (either Cali O or Purple G), but I have read that the can stick to your clothes and shoes from being outside. They are tiny and can float short distances so some basic filter over your intake would be a very good idea.

"Is there any reason to bleach wash the walls and floor or anything that intense?"

If they are mites then you will HAVE to bleach. The females and their eggs can lay dormant for up to a year. Just when you think your clean, boom infestation all over again.

"I was thinkin(can be dangerous) that I use Rapid Rooters as my starter substrait and I have on occasion observed some little critters running around but didn't give it much thought. What is the gestation period from start to finish?"

I dont know the exact gestation period but i think i remember hearing 1 month from larvea to mature (I could be very wrong on that one).

What is a good plant friendly mite poison? you metioned Avid3, is that a specialty product or is it widely available? maybe at the hydro store...

It is not widely available, a local hydro store out here splits the $100+ bottles down into $25 bottles. Since this stuff is one-time use, even the $25 bottle is more than anyone will ever need. As I said, I'd be happy to send you a bottle if you cant find any.

As far as webbing goes, during the whole year I was battling the fuckers, there was only webbing once colonies got established, and when the heat rised. I flowered 3 grows that were infested, and while the yeild suffered a lot, it still produced some decent buds. It sounds to me like your catching it early enough that you may not have any problems at all.

-KRS Juan-

 

[Guest]

I already axed the plants that were infested so that is a done deal.

I am a fine tuned perpetual harvest and this really sucks, it ends up being like a 60-90 day setback when it's all said and done.

I have 5 Trainwrecks that are a week away from harvest and they look completely uneffected but my Golden Skushy is a month or so out as well as my one saved Blue13. I'll salvage what I can and move forward.

I guess I need to become a mite expert now to do battle with the little buggers.

Here comes the "Executioner"

Tex

 

[Guest]

My friggin lights just kicked on so I had to hold off on any foliar fog or spray tell the a.m. because I am affraid of burning.

Rack, were can you get the products you mention? was that to clean the room out or were there still plants in bloom that were exposed to the fog? if so did it effect the final product?

All the other plants left in there look beautiful and uneffected, I'll take the eagle eye mag glass to them all later for a good inspection.

Thanks all

Tex

 

[KRS Juan]

All the hydro shops carry Attain TR and will tell you it's fine to use in flower, but as Rez pointed out in another thread, the manufacturer's own site says otherwise. I chose to use the Avid twice and I havnt seen a mite (or gnat) since.

-KRS Juan-

 

[Guest]

If it cant burn your eyes out or kill a small rodent Rack, I don't want it.lol

I'm off to the hydro store tomorrow anyways so i'll get the skinny

Tex

 

[00420]

so whats the deal with the Avid... i have hurd of it befor but neva had the chance to really check in to it......????

if its mites good luck tk......

every thing that i have found to work harms the plants to much...

the tr bombs do help a ton

 

[00420]

so i did a lil search ...........

COPING WITH SPIDER MITES
by Alan A. Fisher

Dahlia growers from 50 or 60 years ago would be astonished to hear our concerns with mites, because these tiny creatures were not a serious problem until after World War II. Interestingly, DDT created the mite problem two ways. First, DDT killed many mite predators. Moreover, DDT vastly increased the fertility of mites -- by greating increasing the number of eggs each female mite would lay and by substantially enhancing the percentage of mite eggs that hatched. A widely used miticide in the United States today is Sevin, a carbamate (same chemical class as DDT). I have always heard warnings not to use Seven on dahlias because it worsens mite problems. Dr. Ronald Ochoa's story about DDT explains why carbamates cause more problems than they cure for dahlia growers.

More recently, many dahlia growers use synthetic pyrethroids, a chemical class that emerged in the late 1970s. The most highly regarded synthetic pyrethroid in the United States now is Bifenthrin, sold as Talstar. Synthetic pyrethroids, however, also worsen mite problems. In addition to killing mite predators, pyrethroids repel spider mites and induce them to migrate to new host plants. The ratio of females to males increases, and reproduction and dispersion of mites both increase. Interestingly, Bifenthrin is marketed in the United Kingdom as a miticide. Studies I have seen have shown Talstar not to be effective as a miticide. I am uncertain whether these studies take into account the effect of Bifenthrin and other pyrethroids in inducing mites to spread beyond the area being sprayed. I have noticed that this summer, when I am greatly reducing my use of Talstar, as of the last week of July, I have not yet seen any signs of 2-spotted red spider mites, the most common mites in our area.

Compared to insects, mites reproduce far more quickly and mutate more rapidly. The process of mutation creates new variants resistant to any chemical used repeatedly on mites. Anyone using chemical control must therefore rotate chemical classes frequently to prevent the mites from becoming resistant. A general rule is not to use any specific miticide more than twice per season. Horticultural oil helps control mites by smothering mite eggs and the early larval stages, and the pests do not build up an immunity to suffication. However, one should only use the oil two or three times per season. Repeated use of horticultural oil destroys the natural oils of dahlias and leads to a breakout of serious fungus problems.

Mites have 4 stages: egg, larvae, nymph, and adult. For the 2-spotted red spider mite, the most common dahlia predator, the cycle is 4 days from egg to larvae; 4 days from larvae to nymph; and 6 days from nymph to adult. To attack 2-spotted red spider mites with oil, one would need to spray 2 c.c. of oil per liter of water and repeat in 8 days and then 6 days later. (Figure 5 c.c. per teaspoon and about 3.8 liters per gallon of water.) Because of the potential for fungus problems, one should not use the oil again the same growing season. Because oil does not kill adults, one should combine the first spraying with an adult miticide, such as Avid, Pylon, or Floramite. In theory, this schedule should control an existing invasion until new mites migrated from some other nearby crop.

Selecting the proper product also requires ability to diagnose a mite invasion. The typical sign of 2-spotted red spider mites is yellowing of the most mature leaves, lowest on the plant. The back of the leaves shows a red webbing. While other conditions can turn old leaves yellow, normally the leaves turn yellow all over. With spider mites, the yellowing is uneven but over large portions of the leaves. If in doubt, have someone experienced come and show you the signs.

Cyclamen mites, which are a fraction the size of 2-spotted red spider mites, are entirely different. With cyclamen mites, the newest foliage looks like spinach. While chemical damage can give the same symptoms, when you see a spinach effect, suspect cyclamen mites.

Because mites stay only on the backs of leaves, control requires thorough coverage of the backs of all leaves. Because of the difficulty of spraying under all leaves, the most popular miticide in BASF's Abamectin, sold in many areas under the trade name Avid. Growers appreciate Avid, because it is partially systemic. On young foliage, Avid penetrates and is effective through the leaf. This chemical, which is synthesized from a natural bacterium in the soil, cannot penetrate mature foliage or move from one leaf to another. Unfortunately, because of over use, many mites are developing resistance to Abamectin (Avid). Avid has been most effective against broad mites or cyclamen mites. This experience makes sense, because these types of mites tend to attack the youngest foliage, and Avid penetrates the young foliage (and thus kills on the back of the leaves) while it does not penetrate mature foliage (which the 2-spotted spider mites attack).

Because mites have 4 stages, a miticide can potentially kill mites at any or all of these stages. Some miticides, such as Avid or Floramite, kill adults. A few products kill or neutralize eggs (and sometimes make adults sterile even if they do not kill them). The most effective and longest-lasting control would kill both eggs, adults, and larvae or nymph stages. Combining an ovicide (which kills the eggs) with a product that kills adults greatly enhances the effectiveness of any spraying program. If the spray program does not control all stages, re-spray on a schedule that takes into account the timing of the stages in the mite life cycle. Because mites often lay eggs on the tops of stakes (and the webs are often visible), when spraying with an ovicide, spray the tops of the stakes as well as the backs of the foliage.

Any article on miticides depreciates quickly, because manufacturers release new products annually, and because mites develop resistance rapidly. Because of the expense of the EPA regulatory process and because the ability of mites to develop resistance quickly means that effective product lives are short, most miticides are very expensive. In the National Capital Dahlia Society, some of us get together, purchase a product together, and then subdivide the product. For a $200 product, with three purchasers, we can normally have enough miticide for a few years for less than $70 each.

The most effective ovicides are horticultural oil and Hexygon (from Gowan Chemical). Hexygon has a long residual (up to 21 days). By interrupting the reproduction cycle, Hexygon used with an effective adult miticide, tends to be very effective if used at the very first sign of any mite activity. Since Hexygon is only effective as a contact killer, one must cover the backs of all the foliage to use it effectively. As with most chemicals (other than horticultural oil), a good spreader-sticker enhances the effectiveness of most miticides.

One organic approach is very helpful in controlling 2-spotted spider mites and other mites that attack the oldest foliage. Strip off all old leaves, put them in plastic bags, and hide them in household trash. Never leave old dahlia foliage in the garden. After topping the dahlia plant, when replacement laterals develop a few sets of leaves, strip off the foliage from the main stem. After cutting a bloom, remove and destroy foliage lower on the lateral. If any plant shows extensive mite attack, rip it out and throw the entire plant into the trash. By the time one recognizes the common yellowing of foliage common from a mite attack, the mites have moved up the plant and left nothing but eggs. If one sees evidence of extensive mite damage, the plant in question is more a breeding factory for mites than anything else, and it will not produce decent blooms, but it will spread mites elsewhere in the garden. Careful attention to stripping old foliage can minimize spread of mites and be more effective than virtually any chemical miticide.

There are several adult miticides, and numerous others are undergoing EPA testing. Uniroyal introduced a new adult miticide called Floramite in 2000. This product seems to be very effective against 2-spotted spider mites and some other types, but it is not effective against broad mites or cyclamen mites. Floramite claims that it kills some eggs, but it is not reliable as an ovicide. Pylon, introduced in 2000 or 2001, has the major advantage of being partially systemic. Like Avid, it penetrates young foliage. Pylon was tremendously effective when first introduced, but there are now reports of resistance in some areas. Pylon does not damage either blooms or foliage, and it kills the large mites that often run all over dark blooms (primarily reds, dark reds, and purples). Unfortunately, Pylon has a short shelf life, and one must discard it within three years of purchase. Cinnamite, made from food grade cinnamaldehyde, is effective but has a short residual. Cinnamite can damage foliage in hot weather, so be careful not to use it when high temperatures will be greater than the high 80s. Cygon 2-E, an organic phosphate, has been effective against mites. Cygon 2 E is systemic and long lasting. One may use it as a soil drench early in the season for broad spectrum control of insects and possibly help with mites. However, because most mites do not reproduce rapidly until hot, humid weather, the absence of symptoms early in the season could indicate that the mites have not gotten started yet rather than any effectiveness of the Cygon 2-E against mites. Several other new products are under regulatory review, including one or more refinements of Abamectin.

A Practical Schedule for Attacking Mites

Early in the season, as long as the temperatures remain relatively cool, a soil drench with Cygon 2-E is probably sufficient in most areas. However, at the first sign of mites, one should begin a regular program. Because mites quickly develop resistance to any chemical, any effective program requires rotating a minimum of three chemical classes before repeating any chemical class, and discipline not to use any chemical control more than twice in any growing season.

If the first sign of mites is early enough in the season that high temperatures are no higher than 85 degrees, consider using horticultural oil plus Cinnamite for the first treatment. An advantage of these products is that both are inexpensive. (Cinnamite costs approximately $30.) The horticultural oil will smother the eggs and early stages while the Cinnamite will kill the adults. Be careful to hit the backs of all foliage, because neither product is systemic. Use the timetable above to time a second treatment of the horticultural oil in 8 days and a third treatment 6 days later. Do not use the horticultural oil again the same season (because of the potential for fungus damage). Because horticultural oil kills by smothering rather than by chemical action, the mites cannot build up resistance to it.

An excellent choice for a second chemical class is to use Hexygon for long lasting control of eggs plus an adult miticide such as Avid. For 2-spotted red spider mites, the next two treatments should be Pylon and Floramite (the order does not matter). In case of cyclamen or broad mites, the choices are Avid or Pylon. I have normally found a single treatment of Avid to be highly effective against cyclamen mites.

After using a minimum of three different chemical classes, it is safe to repeat a miticide and use it a second and final time in a given season. Try to reserve Pylon to use it around show time, in case of any mites attacking dark colored blooms. Because Pylon will not damage the blooms and will kill the large mites that can ruin dark blooms, it is especially useful during show season. However, if you have used Pylon recently before a show, using it again before rotating two other chemical classes is an invitation to developing chemical resistance and losing the benefit of one of the most effective miticides we have ever had.

 

[00420]

i think i found the reason mmost things dont work for us on mite prob's......

most items we go to the store & buy are "fungicides" or "insecticides" & "combinations

the prob with this is mites are not a fungi nor are they a insect.... there a mite there for we need a miticides..........

heres a web site thats sells what we need
http://www.primaryproducts.com/index.html

have fun boys i ordered mine to night ... lets see what it can do.

 

[Guest]

Here is a site that a member sent me that has the stuff I think your talkin about as well

http://www.atlantishydroponics.com/...de=AH&Product_Code=RPS710&Category_Code=othpc

Rotenone-Pyrethrin. Rotenone controls beetles, cabbageworms and aphids, along with fleas and many varieties of flies, moths and thrips. This formulation with Pyrethrin aids in the control of spider mites, whiteflies, ants and gnats. This naturally occurring pesticide is perfect for organic gardeners. Controls many insects, on fruit, berries, vegetables, ornamental flowers and trees. May be applied up to one day before harvest. 2 teaspoon per gallon. treats up to 1 acre depending on density of foliage. May also be used as a flea, tick and lice spray for pets, and to kill fire ants.

Tex

 

[Guest]

Pyrethrins they do work some what but I havn't had much luck with them in controlling thrips. It does kill, but it has no lasting effect. Once it drys it looses its ability to kill any pest. The thrips I have/had they just walk away from this stuff. Organic sounds nice but I am about to go the other route myself. The organic stuff just isn't cutting it. Notice in the description it says controls, it dosn't say eradicates.

Mo,

 

[Guest]

Eradicate with extreme predgiduce

I shower those bitches this morning after the lights turned off so we'll see.

Tex