List your favorite brand of Canadian Peat Moss?

[chappie]

I'm also wondering about the quality of Greensmix...

 

[Microbeman]

It's extremely frustrating. I've spent hours over the last few days trying to find/get Ancient Forest (by GH) any and everywhere, Canada (nope) and USA (nope/$70+ for shipping on a $10 bag of dirt).

LSS, I found out they can import it because of, essentially, the worms/organisms that may be present in it. G-T-F-O-H NOW! Hah.

So Canada is harvesting Canadian sphagnum/peat from Canada, packaging it up, shipping it to the US, where they turn around and say they can't ship to Canada because the Canadian organisms inside can't be imported into Canada. (not referring to AF in this case)

Now THAT is marketing/ignorance/crazy at it's best and all rolled up into one.

Lets see how much trouble I have finding the proper Lambert, Premier, or other acceptable sphagnum where I live now...
*now that I know I don't need GH ancient forest; just a quality sphagnum*

Rant switch disabled

Both Premier Brand lower grade sphagnum peatmoss and Alaska Peat are as good as or superior to Ancient Forest. Premier is easily available in Canada and I've found the best price at Rona $9 to $10 for 3.8 cubic feet.

Ancient Forest is not a Canadian product. It is peatmoss mined in Alaska. Calling it humus is straight BS.

 

[Microbeman]

PS. When I say lower grade Premier, I mean don't get sucked in to buying their high grade stuff $18+ a bale. It looks pretty but is not as good.

 

[Kozmo]

So... I have a bag of Canadian peat in my garage for two years now. Can/should I use it?

 

[BurnOne]

Premier or Fafard peat. ProMix HP if I can find it.
Burn1

 

[EclipseFour20]

So... I have a bag of Canadian peat in my garage for two years now. Can/should I use it?

Assuming it takes a hundred years or so for "mama nature" to "make peat", I think a few extra years in your garage will not hurt...now if it was inoculated with bennies they might have diminished--so mixing half old with half new peat might be an easy fix. Remember, there are no nutrients in peat...until you add them.

 

[xxPeacePipexx]

I do not like growing herb in peat but when I do buy peat it is usually Premeir brand and it is used strictly in my outdoor veggie garden !

 

[Kozmo]

Thank you

Thank you

Assuming it takes a hundred years or so for "mama nature" to "make peat", I think a few extra years in your garage will not hurt...now if it was inoculated with bennies they might have diminished--so mixing half old with half new peat might be an easy fix. Remember, there are no nutrients in peat...until you add them.

Thank you, it has been bagged in its original bail. I will inoculate with ACT when I mix the super soil ingeadoants as well.

 

[Microbeman]

Assuming it takes a hundred years or so for "mama nature" to "make peat", I think a few extra years in your garage will not hurt...now if it was inoculated with bennies they might have diminished--so mixing half old with half new peat might be an easy fix. Remember, there are no nutrients in peat...until you add them.

Reference to statement in bold.

Don't be too sure about that. After all sphagnum peatmoss almost always contains humus. I've found the main plant tissue in Alaska humus (product) to be sphagnum.

http://www.microbeorganics.com/#Canadian_Sphagnum_Peat

 

[EclipseFour20]

Sorry MM, seldom do I use absolutes but I did not mean peat is void of any "value"...but when examining the 16 essential nutrients and the 5 or so beneficial nutrients required for plant growth, I would say peat is minimal with it's content in most all respects...as evidenced by the guaranteed analysis info at this link:

http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/egov/is/fert/fert2.asp?ID=6790

BTW, below is the technical data (published by Premier) for ProMix BX...which is about 75-85% peat--and in order to achieve those very low PPM levels they had to add both macro & micro nutes.

 

[Microbeman]

FYI those testing methods do not test for sequestered nutrients. e.g. NPK numbers are practically non-existent in [v]compost testing, yet there are enough nutrients to complete the growth cycle.

 

[EclipseFour20]

How does one obtain tests for "sequestered nutrients"? Is there one? Does it measure all 90+ naturally occurring elements? Or just the "sweet 16"?

Now I do know the mircroherd (particularly bacteria) can do wonders in the soil, like generate 10-14% nitrogen, 1% potassium and 3% phosphorous (nice NPK) and some bacteria can double the counts/weight every 15 minutes (under the right conditions)...and bacteria can naturally produce/generate 140 lb's of nitrogen per acre.

So...when you refer to peat's "sequestered nutrients", are you referring to nutrients generated by the microherd "sequestered" in the grow medium? Or are you referring to what the grow medium is "capable of" producing, under the right conditions?

BTW, the term "sequestered nutrients" seems rather obscure (not well known)...google gave me less the 3500 hits, scholar.google has less than 200 hits. Very little out there on this topic.

 

[Microbeman]

Great questions and some unanswerable presently.

The closest to true reliable testing of sequestered nutrients is likely done by a form of HPLC - MS.

So...when you refer to peat's "sequestered nutrients", are you referring to nutrients generated by the microherd "sequestered" in the grow medium? Or are you referring to what the grow medium is "capable of" producing, under the right conditions?

In my 'books' these are the same thing.

I would guess that good research areas would be unharvested old growth forests and unfarmed plains grasses. [perhaps Terra Preta beds?]

 

[barnyard]

sphagnum peat moss is a potting medium. Peat humus is like a compost and is a soil conditioner.

sphagnum peat moss doesn't have any nutrients and none of the commercial types contain peat humus

"waking up" microbe by feeding them is not evidence of prior nutrients

cation exchange isn't how the medium holds nutes its how the medium facilitates uptake of the elemental ions...

 

[Microbeman]

sphagnum peat moss is a potting medium. Peat humus is like a compost and is a soil conditioner.

sphagnum peat moss doesn't have any nutrients and none of the commercial types contain peat humus

"waking up" microbe by feeding them is not evidence of prior nutrients

cation exchange isn't how the medium holds nutes its how the medium facilitates uptake of the elemental ions...

The sphagnum peatmoss I have tested (Premier low grade & Alaska Peat low grade) both contain a proportion of humus being partially degraded (decomposed). One can also purchase a product which is fully decomposed.

The presence of bacteria/archaea, naked amoebae, testate amoebae, flagellates, ciliates and certain types of fungal hyphae certainly does provide evidence of sequestered nutrients.

Actually this sort of examination is one of the best ways to evaluate compost quality. For years there have been many expert gardeners calling sphagnum peatmoss an inert substance. They have been incorrect.

CEC is just what it says. It is an expression and measurement of a media's capacity (negative charge) to hold and exchange nutrients (elements, compounds) which are traded for with hydrogen (pH) molecules of varying molecular structure (organic acids emitted by roots, bacteria, archaea & fungi)

The nitrogen content determines fertilizer requirements. Peats low in nitrogen will
require supplemental fertilization for healthy plant growth. Much of the nitrogen in
peat is tied up in the organic residue, and is slowly released over a long period of
time as the organic matter decomposes.
http://afghanag.ucdavis.edu/natural...cs/soil-fact-sheets/FS_Growing_Media_Peat.doc

These high clay soils are low in humus and may have imbalance in mineral nutrients. Also, these soils may have few beneficial soil organisms (bacteria, fungi, algae, protozoa, earthworms and others). High clay soils may be amended with peat moss, sphagnum, organic mulch to increase the humus content.
http://www.nsrl.illinois.edu/general/soyprod.html

No time for more but lots of info out there.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Did not mean to stump the professor, but by now you know I am all about "understanding" and "knowledge". I understand there are many sources for "sequestered nutrients"...ranging from leaf senescence (from the plant) and bacteria (from the soil) and probably hundreds of points in between.

But don't you think the efficiencies/effectiveness of the "sequestered nutrients" are more related to the cultivator and his practices/inputs--rather than "just being there"? In other words, if I use soluble salts and without adequate water fraction, I lose...if I use organic inputs without adequate oxygen in the soil, I lose...if my soil pH is too low/high, I lose. Those kind of things. I find it hard to attribute my successful "cultivator practices" to "just the soil"...LOL. Know what I mean?

 

[barnyard]

that is a better definition of CEC but for example hydroton isn't used because it "holds" nutrients. Even in soil the exchange process occurs in thin layer of moisture that surrounds the plant roots.

sphagnum peat moss has been leached and doesn't contain any significant nutrients

humus means organic material which may or may not contain nutrients

feed the soil that nourishes the plants that build community...

 

[Microbeman]

Know what I mean?

Sort of but don't see the relationship to what I said.

 

[Microbeman]

that is a better definition of CEC

Better than which?....yours? You introduced it, not I (or was it a different member?)

feed the soil that nourishes the plants that build community...

Really?? Now I wonder who came up with that crazy idea.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Sort of but don't see the relationship to what I said.

I was basically suggesting peat is absent of nutrients (using the more common definition used by most users on ICMag)...and must be added by the cultivator. You more or less implied that I was wrong since the tests I linked to (that reported peat has zero nutes) did not include "sequestered nutrients"....but in the real world it seems no one is testing for "sequestered nutrients" (so me not having a test is kinda of dead end logic...what difference does it make since "sequestered nutrient" tests are not available anyway).

I then implied the degree of efficiency and availability of "sequestered nutrients" is probably more related to the practices of the cultivator than the actual medium (since there are many sources for "sequestered nutrients").

Therefor, how can one suggest that a certain grow medium has x% of a specific "sequestered nutrient"...when it really depends on the practices of the cultivator and style of growing (biodynamic, organic, chem, fusion of the two, etc). To that you reply..."don't see the relationship to what I said".

IMHO, measuring "sequestered nutrients" it is almost exactly like measuring "plant available nutrients"--it is rather subjective and not very objective; that too depends mostly on the cultivator's practices and style of growing--and type/form of "plant available element/mineral/nutrient" one uses, ie silica--many of options/products/forms of silica...but only a few are actually in the form considered to be "plant available silica" (ie amorphous silica and monosilicic acid). Interesting concept "sequestered nutrients".

It's all good...we both know peat is good grow medium and one must amend it with nutrients in order to achieve above average gardening results.