Lion Lured Out Of Park, Killed.

[HempKat]

and most of you are still laboring under the delusion that he is guilty AND has a small penis with no proof whatsoever. (unless you have given him a blowjob) very good, folks! keep up the good work and open minds that cannabis users supposedly possess as a result of their decades of repression...

As near as I can tell it was only one or two people that felt this Dentist/Hunter who felt this guy has a small penis not most of us. Personally I have no idea of his penis size nor do I feel it matters. The fact that he lured a semi docile animal out of a protected area to seriously wound it and let it suffer needlessly for 40 hours is bad, regardless of the size of his reproductive organ.

 

[armedoldhippy]

As near as I can tell it was only one or two people that felt this Dentist/Hunter who felt this guy has a small penis not most of us. Personally I have no idea of his penis size nor do I feel it matters. The fact that he lured a semi docile animal out of a protected area to seriously wound it and let it suffer needlessly for 40 hours is bad, regardless of the size of his reproductive organ.

i repeat "follow up of a wounded animal in most African countries are the responsibility of the professional hunter in charge of the safari." wounded lions do not stand around in the open waiting for you to come finish the job. going into thick shit after one is quite likely the most dangerous thing that a human can do besides play a game of "kick the Cape Buffalo" or "shoot at the cops". HE did not lure the animal out, the safari guides ALLEGEDLY did that. does anyone here understand the meaning of the word "alleged"? marijuana has been (and still is) ALLEGED to do LOTS of shit that it does not...do you believe it just because someone somewhere said it? not me...

 

[waveguide]

here's the thing though guy,

if something is risky for you to do, is not a moral justification

 

[armedoldhippy]

here's the thing though guy,

if something is risky for you to do, is not a moral justification

exactly what the hell would I need "moral justification" for ? if what I want to do is legal, I could give a big fuck if someone gets offended and thinks it is "immoral". shitloads of people think doing drugs is "immoral", including smoking pot. does that bother YOU ?

 

[waveguide]

now now it's just i can't figure out why you'd be telling anyone about it if you weren't looking for consent.

course it bothers me. any grower who isn't bothered by killing and smoking weed doesn't know the first thing about it.

anyone who is proud of what they do, involves themselves with matters of no consequence.

 

[noyd666]

might stroll down to Kentucky chicken there all dead down there, grrrrrr

 

[Big-Narstie]

i repeat "follow up of a wounded animal in most African countries are the responsibility of the professional hunter in charge of the safari." wounded lions do not stand around in the open waiting for you to come finish the job. going into thick shit after one is quite likely the most dangerous thing that a human can do besides play a game of "kick the Cape Buffalo" or "shoot at the cops". HE did not lure the animal out, the safari guides ALLEGEDLY did that. does anyone here understand the meaning of the word "alleged"? marijuana has been (and still is) ALLEGED to do LOTS of shit that it does not...do you believe it just because someone somewhere said it? not me...

It may be dangerous but it also very selfish!

And let's not forget he paid 50g to kill this beautiful beast.

I know ur from a hunting clad area but there's absolutely no justification you can do for this man. No man should use the word sport to kill a animal especially a endangered one at that.

Now you've got me thinking.. Where can one find a pic of said penis ? I'd love tobe the one who proved he has an embarrassingly small todger

 

[Big-Narstie]

might stroll down to Kentucky chicken there all dead down there, grrrrrr

You talking bout the outlets or actually the chickens lol

 

[HempKat]

i repeat "follow up of a wounded animal in most African countries are the responsibility of the professional hunter in charge of the safari." wounded lions do not stand around in the open waiting for you to come finish the job. going into thick shit after one is quite likely the most dangerous thing that a human can do besides play a game of "kick the Cape Buffalo" or "shoot at the cops". HE did not lure the animal out, the safari guides ALLEGEDLY did that. does anyone here understand the meaning of the word "alleged"? marijuana has been (and still is) ALLEGED to do LOTS of shit that it does not...do you believe it just because someone somewhere said it? not me...

Well I guess that's where you and me differ because I consider a professional hunter to be someone who does not risk a less sure kill (using a bow and arrow on big game) but rather one who get's the job done, quickly, efficiently and with minimal risk (such as using a high powered rifle from a safe distance using a scope). Someone who uses a less sure method that has a greater chance of sending the wounded animal into the brush would be more of what I would say is an amateur hunter or idiot.

That being said I realize there are very skilled bowmen out there who probably could guarantee a quick efficient kill of big game but nothing I've heard about this dentist suggests he's that good of a bowman. Personally I think this guy wanted to not only boast about being a big game hunter but also wanted to be able to add that he did it with a bow and arrow. To me it seems this guy approaches hunting from an aspect of building up his ego.

As for the luring whether he himself physically did it or not is irrelevant. He's the one that hired the guides, had he not done so then the guides or whoever might not have lured any animal out of anywhere. It was described in one story that they tied the carcass of an animal to their vehicle and drove by the lion as they headed out of the park. That's pretty specific and detailed for just alleging, sounds more like an eye witness account. Also I'm fairly confident he was at least present if not actually physically involved. If he wasn't perfectly content with what was being done, he could have told the guides he didn't want it done like that. That he wanted to do it the legal way and hunt a lion that lives and roams freely outside of the protected boundaries of the park this lion. Personally if I paid 50,000 dollars and my guides drove to a protected park and lured a lion out I would have felt cheated. I would expect guides costing that much to actually find a lion completely in the wild. I mean isn't that the justification for their price? The level of skill they bring to the hunt?

Had the hunter actually bagged a lion out in the wild rather then one lured from a protected area, I wouldn't have a problem with this Dentist. Hunting for sport is not my cup of tea personally but I do recognize some enjoy it and have the right to do it...legally.

 

[stoned-trout]

I would rather hunt the dentist then the lion... he is more disposable .....yeehaw...in this day and age anyone wanting to shoot a lion should be hunted themselves..selfish prick..i whack and eat all kinds of animals..lions aint one I would want to kill..some animals should be left alone and admired from afar not from your wall hanging or using as a rug....

 

[Big-Narstie]

I would rather hunt the dentist then the lion... he is more disposable .....yeehaw...in this day and age anyone wanting to shoot a lion should be hunted themselves..selfish prick..i whack and eat all kinds of animals..lions aint one I would want to kill..

Well your sir never watched Disney movies I assume lol

I have a big heart for animals, never used to as a child was abit of a budding psychopath back then but then cannabis turned me more closer to nature. Killing "for food" is natural but if that poor animal even catches my eye with theirs Ill crumble and lose bottle.
Unless it's that fat head of a pigeon that seems to want a fight and stares at me for 20 mins through my kitchen window most morning.

Might have to break out the ol gat gun oh yea u know how we roll round here.

P.s Im not talking Gatling gun either lol

 

[mrcreosote]

I am amused at the faux-outrage squad kneejerks into action in response to this media hyped circus. "OMG...Je suis Cecil".

Where is all this industrial strength 'concern' over the illegal poaching of hundreds of big game cats every year by locals who sell animal parts all over the world?

Because this lion had a 'name' and a collar, he's become a celebrity cause. If the guy's permits weren't in order, then he should face prosecution like anyone else, but Zimbabwe is notoriously 'unofficial' when it comes to taking big money from hunters and crafting excuses and assigning blame when things go wrong.

The facts are that game preserves have limits to the numbers of predators they can support and that excess population needs to be relocated outside the parks confines.
This is where the hunters hunt. The hunters provide the much needed funds to allow the parks to exist and be staffed by police to prevent poaching and the meat is used by locals much the same as you would buy beef for dinner.

This could be a case of the hunter/dentist being hornswoggeled by an unscrupulous guide, or not, but the information provided by the Govt. should be considered suspect until proofs are made public.

And tomorrow, or the next day, a local native poacher will kill another lion and sell his dick to China for thousands and none of the screaming 'lion social justice warriors' won't give a single shit because the perp won't be a rich white American.

And another lion will be dead. Without a name.

 

[spliphy]

Did you count all the stakeholders?

Did you count all the stakeholders?

I am amused at the faux-outrage squad kneejerks into action in response to this media hyped circus. "OMG...Je suis Cecil".

Where is all this industrial strength 'concern' over the illegal poaching of hundreds of big game cats every year by locals who sell animal parts all over the world?

Because this lion had a 'name' and a collar, he's become a celebrity cause. If the guy's permits weren't in order, then he should face prosecution like anyone else, but Zimbabwe is notoriously 'unofficial' when it comes to taking big money from hunters and crafting excuses and assigning blame when things go wrong.

The facts are that game preserves have limits to the numbers of predators they can support and that excess population needs to be relocated outside the parks confines.
This is where the hunters hunt. The hunters provide the much needed funds to allow the parks to exist and be staffed by police to prevent poaching and the meat is used by locals much the same as you would buy beef for dinner.

This could be a case of the hunter/dentist being hornswoggeled by an unscrupulous guide, or not, but the information provided by the Govt. should be considered suspect until proofs are made public.

And tomorrow, or the next day, a local native poacher will kill another lion and sell his dick to China for thousands and none of the screaming 'lion social justice warriors' won't give a single shit because the perp won't be a rich white American.

And another lion will be dead. Without a name.

Earlier this year the wife and I considered a once-in-a-lifetime-trip to Victoria Falls which lies on the border of Zimbabwe. The trip fell through because of a scheduling conflict, however, we would have included probably a safari type of animal sighting with me shooting pictures. Though the planning did not get as far to account for such an activity, what if I read about Cecil and wanted to film and interact somehow with him in the future? So, at least myself and probably many others have lost the potential to observe this formerly magnificent cat.

How about those other stakeholders who had previously encountered Cecil, have pictures, memories, and emotional attachment to him, how should they feel?

Today, thousands of dogs will be killed by shelters because no one wants those dogs. However, it is a different scenario if someone were to kill another's beloved pet dog. This is how I see this discussion of Cecil the Lion: he was a virtual pet to many and they are fully justified to be outraged as any other pet lover by this animal's demise.

 

[armedoldhippy]

now now it's just i can't figure out why you'd be telling anyone about it if you weren't looking for consent.

course it bothers me. any grower who isn't bothered by killing and smoking weed doesn't know the first thing about it.

anyone who is proud of what they do, involves themselves with matters of no consequence.

LOL! like i need consent, or worry about what you might think. another clueless clown that thinks his opinion should count for something. stick with facts and you won't be mocked nearly as often...

 

[armedoldhippy]

It may be dangerous but it also very selfish!
And let's not forget he paid 50g to kill this beautiful beast.
I know ur from a hunting clad area but there's absolutely no justification you can do for this man. No man should use the word sport to kill a animal especially a endangered one at that.
Now you've got me thinking.. Where can one find a pic of said penis ? I'd love tobe the one who proved he has an embarrassingly small todger

"selfish" is, like beauty, in the eyes of the beholder.
no, he paid $50Gs to HUNT, this was an open range hunt, not behind a fence. he could very well have gone home with nothing to show for it but memories. by the way, this entire continent was a "hunting area" at one time, folks still hunt in all fifty states. the "sport" is in the HUNT, not the kill. that is why it is called "hunting" not "killing". you want to see his dick? i can't say that i am surprised...

 

[armedoldhippy]

Well I guess that's where you and me differ because I consider a professional hunter to be someone who does not risk a less sure kill (using a bow and arrow on big game) but rather one who get's the job done, quickly, efficiently and with minimal risk (such as using a high powered rifle from a safe distance using a scope). Someone who uses a less sure method that has a greater chance of sending the wounded animal into the brush would be more of what I would say is an amateur hunter or idiot.

That being said I realize there are very skilled bowmen out there who probably could guarantee a quick efficient kill of big game but nothing I've heard about this dentist suggests he's that good of a bowman. Personally I think this guy wanted to not only boast about being a big game hunter but also wanted to be able to add that he did it with a bow and arrow. To me it seems this guy approaches hunting from an aspect of building up his ego.

As for the luring whether he himself physically did it or not is irrelevant. He's the one that hired the guides, had he not done so then the guides or whoever might not have lured any animal out of anywhere. It was described in one story that they tied the carcass of an animal to their vehicle and drove by the lion as they headed out of the park. That's pretty specific and detailed for just alleging, sounds more like an eye witness account. Also I'm fairly confident he was at least present if not actually physically involved. If he wasn't perfectly content with what was being done, he could have told the guides he didn't want it done like that. That he wanted to do it the legal way and hunt a lion that lives and roams freely outside of the protected boundaries of the park this lion. Personally if I paid 50,000 dollars and my guides drove to a protected park and lured a lion out I would have felt cheated. I would expect guides costing that much to actually find a lion completely in the wild. I mean isn't that the justification for their price? The level of skill they bring to the hunt?

Had the hunter actually bagged a lion out in the wild rather then one lured from a protected area, I wouldn't have a problem with this Dentist. Hunting for sport is not my cup of tea personally but I do recognize some enjoy it and have the right to do it...legally.

the PH (to save time) is in charge of conducting the hunt as safely as he can for the client, and to do so ethically. if a hunter wants to use a bow and risk getting mauled/killed, he is the paying customer. there is no such thing as a certain kill with no chance of an animal escaping wounded. never was, aint now, never will be. real animals move at inopportune times, arrows and bullets drift with a gust of wind, or are deflected by a twig not visible even through a scope if using a firearm. the only evidence that anyone has comes courtesy of a publicity-hungry avowed animal rights group and a notoriously corrupt government that smells money. over 70% of lions/leopards taken in Africa come from the fringes of national parks and other protected areas. they are wild, and do not live behind fences. tour guides and camera-toting animal lovers get killed and eaten every year in these "parks". "me and you" differ on a LOT, not the least of which is the definition of a "professional hunter"...

 

[SmellyFlorist]

the only evidence that anyone has comes courtesy of a publicity-hungry avowed animal rights group and a notoriously corrupt government that smells money. over 70% of lions/leopards taken in Africa come from the fringes of national parks and other protected areas. they are wild, and do not live behind fences. tour guides and camera-toting animal lovers get killed and eaten every year in these "parks".

Do you live by these parks...? Have you been to these parks..? Have you seen the fences around these parks..? Do you even know anyone who lives around these parks..?

The only reason why you claim a percentage like that to occur is because people are utter fools... living in and around big game has always been a way of life for most africans... when people starting stealing fencing, trespassing into national parks to poach and when fucking idiotic tourists feel the need to alight from their vehicles to get "closer" is when they get mauled... thats when you hear the horror stories, hippo's that lions this... yes it does happen, even rangers get mauled by leopards... but its pretty rare, and they probably the only big cats that can survive outside of a park in this day and age... people have seen leopards 10miles away from where I live... Im talking with reference to Southern Africa... where this whole thread is kinda about anyway...

Have you ever heard of a gentlemen by the name of Harry Wolhuter..?

Will agree with you on the corruptions thou....

Peace

 

[Big-Narstie]

"selfish" is, like beauty, in the eyes of the beholder.
no, he paid $50Gs to HUNT, this was an open range hunt, not behind a fence. he could very well have gone home with nothing to show for it but memories. by the way, this entire continent was a "hunting area" at one time, folks still hunt in all fifty states. the "sport" is in the HUNT, not the kill. that is why it is called "hunting" not "killing". you want to see his dick? i can't say that i am surprised...

Just fancied a change really.. I'm getting bored looking at u.

Well your continent is young, you'll grow up one day

 

[HempKat]

the PH (to save time) is in charge of conducting the hunt as safely as he can for the client, and to do so ethically. if a hunter wants to use a bow and risk getting mauled/killed, he is the paying customer. there is no such thing as a certain kill with no chance of an animal escaping wounded. never was, aint now, never will be. real animals move at inopportune times, arrows and bullets drift with a gust of wind, or are deflected by a twig not visible even through a scope if using a firearm. the only evidence that anyone has comes courtesy of a publicity-hungry avowed animal rights group and a notoriously corrupt government that smells money. over 70% of lions/leopards taken in Africa come from the fringes of national parks and other protected areas. they are wild, and do not live behind fences. tour guides and camera-toting animal lovers get killed and eaten every year in these "parks". "me and you" differ on a LOT, not the least of which is the definition of a "professional hunter"...

You write out a long response essentially saying the same thing you've said several times now and yet you felt the need to save time by abbreviating professional hunter? First off the "Professional Hunter" was the client the "Guides" job is to take the hunter to an area where he will find the particular game he is looking for. As for gusts of wind and twigs, yeah sure, those things can interfere with a shot of an amateur but a skilled marksman/hunter knows how to adjust and account for those things. When using a high powered rifle from a great distance the hunter can take his time and wait for opportunities to take a clean shot when conditions are optimal. That's under normal circumstances in this case thanks to a relatively safe life in a protected park Cecil had grown semi docile and accustom to humans coming by regularly to take pictures thereby allowing humans to get much closer to him without fear of being attacked. It was precisely this that made him so well known and beloved by people from around the world. People who annually would come and pay approximately 10G's per day for an opportunity to photograph Cecil. It is this revenue that concern over a decline in revenue would happen since this kind of revenue could match the revenue from the death of Cecil, in just 5 days of photographing, also leaving the opportunity for this revenue to continue since it left Cecil alive rather then a one time hunt where Cecil was killed leaving no opportunity for future revenue from interest in that particular lion.

The fact that Cecil had become semi-docile allowing humans to get closer then a fully wild lion would allow (as close as 33 feet) was because he had learned that humans didn't seem to pose much of a threat since they were only taking pictures. Also at 13 years old he was nearing the end of a normal lifespan for lions and that probably also played a role in him being more docile then a younger adult lion in the wild. Now it is true that this park wasn't just some fenced in petting zoo. Rather it was a defined boundary that humans were/are expected to respect. Animals however do start to recognize that if they stay within a given area they are not typically threatened by hunters. As such Cecil had been living in this perceived safe zone since 2008. Since that time Cecil had established 2 different prides within the park. The second pride was established because Cecil had been run out of his previous pride by two younger lions. Typically lions don't roam all over the place but rather they find a spot where there is plenty of food and they stay in that area. What better place for that then a park where hunting is not allowed?

It was said earlier that the thrill of the sport is in the hunt, not the kill. There was no hunting to this kill though, just an old lion who was lured out of a protected zone and was docile enough for the hunter to get close enough to first attempt killing him with a bow and arrow. That doesn't sound like much of a hunt to me. Further, if the Dentist/Hunter was all about the hunt then why wasn't he questioning why this lion had to be lured away from where he was? If he thought everything was on the up and up why didn't he just attempt to hunt the lion where it was? I don't buy for an instant that he didn't realize anything they were doing was wrong.

As for how much we differ on, what makes you think I give a rat's ass how much we differ on? Do you think that's supposed to hurt my feelings? I mean it really has nothing to do with this discussion, so what else would be your motivation to inform me we differ on a lot of other things? To me you're just someone, somewhere in the world that I'll likely never meet.

 

[Wendull C.]

No. The professional hunter is the main guide who gets a concession to hunt an area from the government. The dentist was the client. Under the pH you have trackers, guides, skinners, and those who set up and maintain bait stations.

And to the guy who said he lives in Southern Africa aren't lions feared as terrible predators of local villages? They aren't crying for Cecil I bet, just hoping they aren't food when they leave the hut to piss at night.