Legendary Sativa smoke: Three steps

[Huesos]

How to find the legendary Sativa smoke of old:

Step one: the seed source is a critical baseline step.

Step two: grow a large population and cull all the short flower and weak ones with extreme prejudice For example- other than a time or two- Ive never found a short flower Sativa that compares to the legendary long flower ones.

Step three: Big Sun, especially in the long flower stage.

One example: Purple Thai- i was very lucky to source the Purple Thai seeds many years back. The best thing I did was repro her to work with a large population.

My goal was to hunt for the legendary Thai of old. So- I culled all oaxacan looking ones, short flower ones, and disease prone ones.

I ended up with about 8-10 plants. October comes around- they begin to flower; November comes around- aromas begin to perfume the air; December begins express her beautiful colors; Christmas turns plants into majestic specimens.

The end product produced highly fragrant aromas of chocolate, blueberries, and so forth.

My conclusion was that Mother Nature has her own time clock. Big Sun coats the plants with oils. The smoke is of such high quality and dream come true for one searching for the great ones.

Some plants carry the high aroma plants. My hunch is that the Thai in Purple Thai was an excellent example of producing plants with high aromas. This is a rare trait. Skunk- blueberry- chocolate- and so forth come from those plants.

 

[Huesos]

Purple Thai- chocolate found in December.

Need to figure out posting pics that just shows the pics and not url.

 

[funkyhorse]

Hola Huesos
Thanks for opening up this thread

Purple Thai- chocolate found in December.

Need to figure out posting pics that just shows the pics and not url.

I download the picture to my laptop first and then upload here, I dont know if there is a shortcut

This subject is what interests me in cannabis. I believe I arrived at least 20 years late to the growing world
In 2022, step 2 and step 3 are no problems
But step 1, Mamma Mia what a disaster!!!
The very few legacy sativas left today and commercially available are all degraded big time
I am finding out that a few accessions of the strains I look for are buried deep in the freezer of a few selected growers/breeders who are indica lovers and have no love or very very little love for sativas, being all of them in the last place of priorities for work by the genetic holders, this is the reality and it is what it is.
Every time lately someone tried to post some thread like yours, it has spilled over like boiling milk and it turns very fast into a Real Madrid vs Barcelona and sometimes it turned into a much more passional and explosive Racing vs Independiente forcing the closure of threads
The younger generation thinks is all bullshit and what I feel is a lot of frustration from these people who know a lot about cannabis but never got to smoke any real colombian, paraguayan or thai of old so they dont know what to expect or what to cull

Huesos, the day I sprouted my Mangobiche beans, CBG closed doors and their forum with all the info went down the drenage like the sativas of old. And seeing here and there, I am just guessing I will find in this line the same endogamy problems I found in the rest of the pure sativa lines left of old because Kaiki reccomended to outcross his Mangobiche with another Mangobiche line
The top shot of this Mangobiche got broken a couple of days ago so I chopped the whole plant. It could have gone another month easy, it kept pushing white pistils so in northern hemisphere you would harvest it around Carnaval.
Real long flowering tropical sativas dont seem to be popular at all these days

So the beans I made with Mangobiche cbg x Mangobiche cbg I am not sure at all will have the same vigour as the mother plants as I am discovering happens with the other sativas I am trying

So what I am seeing the best vigour and landrace resistance is coming with untamed crosses pure race x pure race preferably from different continents because the pure races when reproduced they turn into endogamy problems. Why is this happening?
Northern Thailand 2008 x CG72 had a few problems this winter with cold and rot but nonetheless it produced a very impressive grinspoonesque productive meaty buds full of resin

CG72 outcrossed male gave very interesting results but I found very serious endogamy problems with CG72 x CG72 progeny
So the main problem I am stuck with is step 1
How can we solve this little problem called step 1?
Have a nice day everybody

 

[StickyBandit]

While it looks good on it's own merits, New Caledonia from Ace looks like an interesting and fairly new IBL for anyone wanting to make a nice new positive hybrid or to introduce vigor. It seems to have been isolated from the rest of the world

 

[yesum]

Numbers, that is what is lacking with most of our grows. We have limits on plants and that limits the potential. Landrace growers grew out hundreds of plants or more, they selected seeds from great plants. The rest is history.

 

[Lebanizer]

I agree that we should be able to grow a lot of plants to find spectacular ones. As a sidenote I also want to add that even in the case of the so called "indica", for a given population, the longer flowering phenos are always superior (better highs) to the shorter flowering phenos. Always.

 

[Benny106]

Cool thread thanks for sharing Huesos! The purple Thai selections you made sound delightful!

 

[romanoweed]

Sorry i said im gone, but this woke me up. NO! IN MY OPPINION Dont heavy select your Lines..
ITs much wiser to do a soft selection, dont do it more than one Generation, namely when you reproduce the 10 initial Seeds..
Thats sad to hear.. You will after a first glowing up (many good pohenos) have no other Generation left ... No generation that your Line wont degarde after that moment where the bottleneckings PROS overshadowed the CONS.

And if your purple thai isnt kickAss to begin with , then its probably not the best Thai there ever was. A real thai can definitly be grown indoors and trip you out.

Just read this Thread i wrote my Anektotes about how Landraces were made, and the scientific Facts or Assumtions and Conclusions about all i ever was able to find after looong research:

Genomics of Landraces

This topic is here to discuss Studies and Observations about Landraces. what made them how they are? what Factors are at play? Also, how to preserve them best in our often limited Enviroment (to less Space, Money and Energy for propper preservation) Imho Landraces are the best weed...

overgrow.com

(sorry for the Og Link Icmag, but ts important for me to speak about)
So, lets just face it, your tactic is not good for preservation.. Its eventually not.. And one of the "Vibes Collective " Guys , the one who preserved LAmbsbreth, did a ultra high numbered Seedrun, where he DID NOT bottleneck his Phenos. And he IS BIOLOGIST.. he made the discovery that inbreeding depression exists when doing exactly like you described and bottlenecked it.. After that he went back to his original Seedstash and did an ultra high numbered Seedrun without much selection. Do you think he did that cause he is mistacken? Mistacken biologist.. hmm

Of corse cou can do what you do separatly. But im sad how many people dont want to work on preservation, and will very likely spend all their energy in selection, their half live.. Imho, its not what needs to be done. And you should get a real thai in the first place so you are not mistacken that original Thai cant blow mind soooo much. It can sooo much.

(Sorry for the confrontation, just dont do this for preservation, and dont get caught up in it.. One point i agree, the minimum plantcount for finding a good Pheno is around 200. Ive seen that when walking trough fields of Cannabis, its atleast 100 Plants till you see a very astounding resinous Pheno.. that stands out like a Worldwonder)

 

[elchischas]

Hola hermano,i let you a messege on GMC ,i hope everything is ok
Great thread bro! I Hope to see you more often around here...
Have a blessed day

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Basically... when trying to preserve something you do zero culling of anything, especially not culling so called runts and dis-eased ones.

The runts and dis-ease comes from genetics which are not right for your grow conditions. Culling them removes genetic material (bottlenecking) in favor of your specific conditions, not the world at large.

 

[olday]

Damn, small numbers and LEDs for now but I can’t disagree with what you are saying here. Not my cup of tea but a lot of buzz going around with the combination of fresh frozen and outdoor runs for extracts. Showing us what we already know is that the sun brings out the best and the hard part was the harvest/dry/cure to keep what it gave us. I will say the newer LEDs are giving me much better results with long flowering NLDs than HPS ever did for me, your Asian Beauty being a great example.

 

[elanius]

Very nice thread, good to see you posting Huesos

 

[RobFromTX]

While it looks good on it's own merits, New Caledonia from Ace looks like an interesting and fairly new IBL for anyone wanting to make a nice new positive hybrid or to introduce vigor. It seems to have been isolated from the rest of the world

Caledonia sounds excellent. positive high and its very colorful for a sativa. You can never go wrong with Ace

 

[xet]

Damn, small numbers and LEDs for now but I can’t disagree with what you are saying here. Not my cup of tea but a lot of buzz going around with the combination of fresh frozen and outdoor runs for extracts. Showing us what we already know is that the sun brings out the best and the hard part was the harvest/dry/cure to keep what it gave us. I will say the newer LEDs are giving me much better results with long flowering NLDs than HPS ever did for me, your Asian Beauty being a great example.

Over the years I have seen some cool examples of people growing 100 plants in a 4x4 tent but in very small containers and all lollipop plants. It's a bit risky because dryout can happen so fast if there is no automation or you vacation etc

 

[iTarzan]

How can you remove all of the short flowering plants before you flower them? Do you just pull all the ones that show pistols first?

 

[Lebanizer]

I think the talk wasn't about preserving but about finding. It's not really a problem provided you keep reproducing the line in its original diversity on the side as well.

 

[StickyBandit]

I think the talk wasn't about preserving but about finding. It's not really a problem provided you keep reproducing the line in its original diversity on the side as well.

I agree. And not everyone with a small home grow can shoulder the responsibility of strain preservation. That's what the big commercial boys and dedicated enthusiasts are for

 

[romanoweed]

yeah, but on the other hand, there are alot anekdotes that see Selection s improovement.

So, its the paring of these "improovement " anekdotes and the title "Legendary sativa". wich lead me to respond.

Imho, legendary sativa is just the original Seed. There is nothing to really improove .

Lets agree on this: There is nothing just good or bad. Everything has some good and bad sides.

And with bottlenecking, the people are eited about a short period of "shining plants". So, one could say the bad side of Bottleniecking is that its a one off, once the shining period, it becomes depressed, and.. sometimes i think thats really where all quiet a few Legends vanished. The people got tricked by a single moment, and they shed word about the "improovement" and how wonderful it is, but i come n, and warn you, its a ONE OFF. it dies after that.. So, lotta peole would probably come back to me and say, Romano, you were right..

So, there are downsides that , plussides. There is no improovement.. Atleast nobody ever reached the power of a real 70s Thai with bottlenecking..
The strongest Tripweed comes from original Seeds, If you agree on that, then the question comes; why is Landrace so strong?

And in my Thread you get hints of Anwsers. And its the topic of 1- inbreeding depression (grow high numbers), 2- the topic of degree of selection (dont select one of a 100, accept the variety, and simply clone the best) , 3- and the topic of enviroment (dont select them in Foreign Climate).
thats how you create LEGENDARY Sativa. Thats basically Landrace . Landrace is the most powerful Smoke ever in existence (atlest on absolutely same level as the most insane Hybrids there are).
Landrace-style breeding has prooven. Selected But Landraces bottlenecked to half uniform Apperance.. Meh,, for me its nothing.

So imho my post is on topic.. Its about the strongest weed on earth, and how its done. The death of Landraces was just a sidenote, and a scream and appeal for intelligence. yes we could have the legendary potency and the preservation bouth in one, if we follow my Tips. IMHO, PEace, let me be. by
Yes, i AM speaking about ultimate potency.. And it has to do with softer Selection.. Big numbers or not,, leads to similar results.. (similar better then bottlenecked)

 

[romanoweed]

I give you right in so far that it was about finding, that a shitty growroom with shitty lights, shitty soil, little space you probably can reach higher when selecting your landrace for this conditions. but.. you cant reach THE highest by bottlenecking the strain.. the low generations just have lotts of power.

If i had limited and shitty growroom, lol (NO OFFENSE). then i would still stick to do one Generation, soft selection (keeping the majority) , try to imitate original climate (i mean temperatures, everyone can try place a heater or open a window to match Thai climate..) try to google Soil of thailand.. Its bout the fast drainage of the soil, water flows very effortless in tropical soil, i am not expert . I can also tell that the Legendary Vietnamese was grown by Tribes, and i found out they used ALOT compost, they literally cut all bushes around, dug it into soil, and after 3 years it was ready for planting.. So, its not grown in tropical Soil just like that..
We could talk more about enviroment and how to imitate it, try to do that.. So you make one Generation of soft selection in your realive good imitated Enviroment. And in the next run , run 100s tiny offspring plants , reveg them all while smoketesting all the 100 phenos.. and keep the reveg that was best, alive for centuries.

thats how i proceed with 10 seeds of an old Thai Line.

 

[Chi13]

"How to find the legendary Sativa smoke of old"

The thread is about finding a great smoke, Thai stick no less. Nothing about breeding or preserving. I generally agree that the likelihood of finding such a smoke is much more likely in long flowering varieties.