LED vs. HID test grow

[Mr Celsius]

Wanna know why I post that? Funny thing is I knew that you would respond if I typed that.

That comment wasn't actually negative, nor were any of my other comments.

 

[Ram Beau]

whatevs...

Question: Why are the LED arrays always in a circle? Why not arrange them in a rectangular pattern. This way you could have a 4x4 panel that would cover a 4x4 area for an awesome sog grow.

I like the comment about the led net.

The ultimate SCROG Lattice?

 

[stonedeconomist]

hid hut is now saying the array will be for sale in october, they don't give any details about cost or light output but they do have a picture of the array on the top of their webpage. hidhut is calling it the led ufo. http://www.hidhut.com/

 

[SensimillaWolf]

Wanna know why I post that? Funny thing is I knew that you would respond if I typed that.

That comment wasn't actually negative, nor were any of my other comments.

dude thats some serious flaming... you posted something purely to get a reaction from him? You chose to use sarcasm for what kind of reaction, other than a negative one?

Then you claim it wasn't negative... if I was a mod I'd be

good luck on your growing pursuits.

That picture of the net is pretty cool. I can see those underneath the buds on a well-trimmed (or not? never done it.) scrog. I'm not sure if just one net would do much though.

 

[simba]

Mr C, you gotta change something.. in many posts ur like this..
as far as made in china and costs etc..
you aparantly have no clue what any thing in life costs at cost or even hard cost...or the fact that many companies just rebrand..

boem, Keep up the great work.. (ya i think u need more blue ratio to keep strech down.. )

a buddy of mine just picked up a $4,000.00 LED Aqarium Light system.
you know what it was at cost.. under $400.00 Well allot less but gives u idea on markup...(but its a nice System)

as far as leds we have easy access to the BLue at 460nm and 600-640 easily (that part is better than most HPS) but yes red from 640-700 are PITA and Pricey if u do get.. Orsam has some New 1,000 Lumen Led's (yes they have few dies)

 

[Boerman]

Sorry I haven't posted anything in a few days. There weren't any significant new developments for quite a while, just normal progress. We are in day 56 of flower - time for harvest. At least for the HID side. As I have stated before, and others have noticed from the pics, the HID side took to flowering a little better than the LED side. I would say that she is roughly two weeks ahead of the LED side. I had originally planned to harvest both at the same time, but I have decided to give the LED side as much time as she needs. It will still be easy enough to calculate the Kwh/g ratios and I have no intention of wasting 3 months work just to prove a point.

The stretch on the LED side stopped after I had to bend her over. I am not sure if that was because of the bending or if she was just done with it. This DOES throw another variable into the test because the main cola is now about the same height as some of the tops of other branches and may give the LED side a unintended boost in flower development due to the partial LST effect.

I am a little bit frustrated because I can't seem to get decent close-ups with my camera to show bud and leaf development. I can tell you that the buds on both plants look great. So do the leaves. I can't really see any difference in size in the leaves on either side.

Here is something strange that I hope other LED growers will comment upon: I noticed during veg that sometimes I would find a housefly or two on the HID side, but I never saw them on the LED side. At about 30 days into flower I started finding some thrips on the HID side and two days later I found that several fan leaves had quite a number of aphids under them. All on the HID side. I inspected many, many leaves on the LED side and have yet to find any thrips or aphids. This seems strange to me since the plants are so close to each other and have one side wide open to any flying pests. I am NOT suggesting that the LED repels insects, but I am wondering if they might ATTRACT them much less than other lighting. As I have stated before concerning the drawing of conclusions, a single example is way too little to draw hard conclusions from. That is why I am curious as to whether other LED growers have had any experience in this vein.

As far as nay-sayers or haters go, I don't really give them too much thought. On the one hand, I realize that I can't think of everything when I design a test and I am glad to have questions and suggestions that may cause me to think of an issue that will need to be addressed in my tests. On the other hand, sometimes I feel like saying "do a search on this sight and see who is actually DOING work with LEDs and if your name doesn't come up, then maybe you are not qualified to tell me how to run my test." I don't want to be rude to people, but there are only a handful of people here who are actually doing anything with regards to LED growing. It takes quite an investment of money, time, effort and thought.

I will try to add more comments tomorrow, but it is almost 3am and I need a little sleep.

B

 

[Harry Gypsna]

well i think its great what ur doing mate....

 

[COCOPUFF]

insect problem with hps

insect problem with hps

many insects including the ones you mentioned are attracted to yellow(hps is mostly yellow),put some yellow sticky traps by your plants will help the problem

 

[Boerman]

After speaking with someone who is much more knowledgable about insects than I, it appears that the wavelengths used in the LED array are not visable to insects. So the LED side looks dark to the bugs. Definately a benefit.

 

[stonedeconomist]

thanks for the update, i'm looking forward to your pics.

 

[stonedeconomist]

hid hut now has the led ufo for sale they are charging $600 for it.

http://www.hidhut.com/catalog/catalog/the-led-ufo-p-1372.html

 

[marx2k]

Yeah I just saw that too (The UFO being for sale) - That's a pretty pricy startup-cost for LED growing, but I guess it has to start somewhere. Personally, being a poorer grower (and having blown my wad on building cabs and investing in electronic ballasts, cooltubes and such) I will wait a few years until LED tech comes into it's own for growing and we can make initial investments into LED arrays comparable to the startup costs for HID's.

Hell, it'd be nice if one day LED technology surpassed HID technology for growing, period. Market adoption would drive costs down in a hurry.

I am curious to hear the cured weight comparison on both. Very interesting and I appreciate your experiment and taking the time (and money) to conduct it.

 

[Dozee]

nice thread.

 

[swampdank]

i know im not the only one who sees what potential these leds hold for the future. i might finally be able to run two chambers without woorying about my heat problems. keep up the good work.

 

[Mr Celsius]

So we can't get a picture? No need for a close up, just a whole plant shot, like before.

 

[Ganico]

How much would it cost to build a 12' x 18" rectangular LED array? Full of LED's all the way to the max possible you can fit on a board that size

And how many watts would/could that be?

 

[IGrowWithLEDs]

THose UFO lights are junk. I dont care how much electricity they use, they are junk. Where it says that their 80 watta has the potential of a 400 watt hps and covers 9 sq feet, thats if you're growing lettuce. For reefer that would grow one plant and only into the begining of flowering.

Also, Why are these manufactuars only using red and blue led's? Plant's DO NEED all spectrums for efficient growing. These companies should use red and white led's because the white led's have mostly blue but also some yellow and green in it, just enough to make plants grow more efficiently.

The only way anyone will have an LED grow system that works great and without the feeling of being raped up the ass on cost is to make it yourself. A little research is all it takes to get started.

 

[murciano207]

Boerman Please teaches photography of the plants!!

 

[blAsia]

did some research a few weeks ago and found a few makers.

http://www.led-grow-master.com/gardeningproducts.html

this is one, but there is another that for under 2g you get 8 light bars... supposed to cover 16' sq (even has a nice grid, specially made for the strips)

Boerman, thanks for the original info, and good job at taking the time ...

There is even a grow contest listed on the main page... you should enter

 

[blAsia]

THose UFO lights are junk. I dont care how much electricity they use, they are junk. Where it says that their 80 watta has the potential of a 400 watt hps and covers 9 sq feet, thats if you're growing lettuce. For reefer that would grow one plant and only into the begining of flowering.

Also, Why are these manufactuars only using red and blue led's? Plant's DO NEED all spectrums for efficient growing. These companies should use red and white led's because the white led's have mostly blue but also some yellow and green in it, just enough to make plants grow more efficiently.

The only way anyone will have an LED grow system that works great and without the feeling of being raped up the ass on cost is to make it yourself. A little research is all it takes to get started.

Do you really grow with LED's?

I am sure the scientists and engineers that create the plant LEDs have done research and know what the plant needs. You can't very well tell a growers community that a plant only needs certain light, if the growers know different. I think a plant excels with certain wavelengths, but other waves certainly can't hurt, and probably help a little.

Don't mean to insult, but are you a research scientist for the horticulture industry?

Here is some additional info for anyone
How does the Lumen output of the LED Grow Master Grow Light compare to other grow lights?
Lumens and Lux are measurements of how bright a light source appears to the human eye. Since the human eye is most sensitive to colors plants don't need, and least sensitive to colors plants prefer, Lumens can't be used to accurately compare the plant growing capability of grow lights. If a grow light manufacturer rates his grow light output in Lumens he's only telling you how bright his grow light will appear to you and light your room, not how well it will grow your plant.

The most accurate unit of measurement for comparing grow lights is the micro Einstein, which measures how many photons of light strike an area per second. But while this is a much better way to estimate a lamp's plant growing ability than Lumens or Lux, it is still
very difficult to directly compare two different types of grow lights. All grow lights except the LED Grow Master Grow Light emit large amounts of light plants don't use
very efficiently, so including that light output in a light's plant growing measurement is misleading.

Can I buy the LED Grow Master Grow Light from my local store?
LED Grow Master products are available from several Internet and catalog retailers. If your local nursery supply store is not carrying LED Grow Master products, ask them
why not!

How warm should I keep my plant growing area?
The energy efficient LED Grow Master Gro-Bar will not heat your growing area like traditional grow lighting products. In cooler weather you may need to compensate for this
by raising the temperature of your growing area to between 70°F and 80°F if you wish to
accelerate the rate of plant growth. If you can, monitor the temperature of your plant's
root zone as this can also affect the rate of plant growth.

Should I water my plants differently when using the Ruby Gro-Bar?
Absolutely! Plants grown under the Gro-Bar plant lighting system use much less water than those grown under conventional (i.e. HOT!) grow lights, and so need to be watered less frequently. Be very careful not to over water your plants, and check to see that the soil is drying a bit before watering them again. The time between watering will vary with plant species. Over watering will slow root development, stunt plant growth, and cause
nutrient uptake issues.

How often and how much should I fertilize?
Your plants will need fewer nutrients when grown under the LED Grow Master Gro-Bar.
Start with a lower amount of nutrient, approximately 400-600 PPM, or around ½ of the
amount recommended by the manufacturer.
My plants aren't flowering like I expected. What can I do?
LED Grow Master plant grow lighting is very gentle to your plants. In some cases you may need to introduce some 'stress' to help your plants bloom. For example, turn your
lights on for fewer hours each day, or allow your plants to dry out a little more than usual between watering cycles.
If your plants are grown indoors without supplemental light, some plants such as tomatoes may benefit from the addition of a single 60 watt light places anywhere in the
room with the plants. This provides a small amount of invisible infrared light, which some plants find beneficial.

How long should I operate my lights each day?
Remember, most plants need to sleep just like we do, except plants prefer that the room be totally dark at night. Check on the Internet or with a local nursery to find out the preferred light/dark period for the plants that you'll be growing.

Is it safe to look at the lights in a Gro-Bar?
The light emitting diodes (LEDs) used in this product are very high intensity. Never look directly into the light at a close distance, or for long periods of time.

Are there any special considerations for commercial growers?
In commercial growing monitor your CO2 levels. LED lights emit a large amount of absorbed light, which may require slight augmentation of CO2 levels (+300-500 PPM).

It looks like one of the LEDs in each cluster isn't working. Is this normal?
If you're using the professional type light bar (Model LGM3/LGM5) you may notice that one of the LEDs in each light cluster appears to not be lit. This is perfectly normal for this advanced product. Light comes in many flavors called wavelengths. People can only see a very narrow range of light wavelengths. The advanced technology used in this product, and in particular the professional type version, uses a very wide spectrum of light output. Over 60% of the light emitted from this light bar is not visible to the human eye. Plants have a preference for the light that we cannot see.

Why do most plants look green to us?

It's because the plant is reflecting the components of white light (green and yellow), and absorbing the rest of the light.