LED Marijuana Blooms

[TheGreenBastard]

kind of off topic but TheGreenBastard - I don't see how AF could increase yield indoors. I thought AF automatically started flowering without regard to light cycle -- being short in stature because they don't really have a veg period. Indoors, you are in control of the light cycle. You could start flowering very shortly after seed, and have a plant similar to AF in that it's short in stature, flowered fast, w/o/ any of the supposed shortcomings AF's have in potency/quality.

I meant that LED's could increase the yield of AF's, and since they are so short they would benefit from the LED's penetration. Which would mean a very uniform plant due to all the leaves receiving roughly the same amount of light. Increasing yield by not only having more bud sites but bigger ones from literally the ground up.

 

[growMEDS]

The 126W has a large heat sink and 6 cooling fans. The temperature at the board where the LED's are soldered, never gets hotter than 105 degrees F. A 400W MH operates at 650 degrees, and a 400W HPS operates at 450 degrees, in case you were wondering

I read all that on your site.

How about no fans pointing at the light and your hand an inch away?
Comparable to HID with glass shield?

Also the 126w says 5000 lumens - is that true? There are 55w PLL lights that have 5000 lumens.

 

[TheGreenBastard]

You could start flowering very shortly after seed, and have a plant similar to AF in that it's short in stature, flowered fast, w/o/ any of the supposed shortcomings AF's have in potency/quality.

You are right that AF's flower regardless of light cycle, though if you were to flower a non-AF plant early you would not have a faster finishing plant. In fact it would potentially slow its flowering time. Also you would have even less potency/quality in a non-AF compared to a true Auto-Flower if you were to flower it early in most cases.

 

[Ipsissimus]

your logic escapes me...but that's ok, I could use a break anyways I still don't get how AF's would be more suited than normal strains in a SOG/SCROG?

 

[UnknownProphet]

Wow what an amazing thread you have. I just read every single comment since page one and you know your shit girl. Great way to get the word out and in a completely well informed and thought provoking way too. You have got many interested and the Pro-grow will definitely help solidify the skepticism. I'm very interested as many are, and I wish you the best in your business. I honestly believe coming on here, although maybe not you intentions, will benefit your pockets. And I honestly believe you are deserving. One person will buy one and show this person who tells that person, ect. This day and age people are extremely lazy and we've somehow lost our identity as innovators and just leave it for the next person. Well this seems to be legit and I want to thank you for sharing your information and wonderful insight into the community that really appreciates it. Like a few other have said on here, I have been pretty skeptical and LEDs but this has really sparked my interest.

ʇǝɥodɹPuʍouʞuU*

 

[TheGreenBastard]

I never said a thing about SOG or SCROG, I was merely stating that I BELIEVE that AF's would benefit from an LED system more than one using CFL's or HID's.

 

[Ipsissimus]

You are right that AF's flower regardless of light cycle, though if you were to flower a non-AF plant early you would not have a faster finishing plant. In fact it would potentially slow its flowering time. Also you would have even less potency/quality in a non-AF compared to a true Auto-Flower if you were to flower it early in most cases.

Ahh, I think on these points we disagree. My experience has been that plants start flowering when you put them in flower, and while they might take a week or too longer to get to where a plant that has already shown it's preflowers is at, flower and finish they do. Check out 12/12 from seed threads, or Nomaad's dark box outdoors thread (buds in july). note - I have read that pure tropical sativas will not start flowering until sexually mature, and then w/ the right light cycle.

Also I was under the impression that AF trait was bred from a freak hemp plant, and only in the more recent crosses has the lack of a "punch" been indiscernible. Kind of like a trade-off deal.

 

[TheGreenBastard]

Actually AF were bred with Ruderalis to give them that trait. Though I agree with you that early AF's lacked potency though that is quickly changing due to Mdanzig's great work (Bluestreak is still one of my favorite strains). Though when you were talking about flowering a non-AF early to have it become similar to a a true AF I assumed that you meant extremely early like an AF does (along the lines one to two weeks). In which cases you would have adverse affects in your 12/12 plants. I am quite familiarize with 12/12 plants being flowered early, by that I mean several weeks into veg (maybe 3 to 4 or longer depending on size and strain). I think the problem we are having here is a failure to communicate.

Nevertheless this is off topic, though I would be more than happy to continue this conversation on a more appropriate thread.

 

[StickyFingerz]

Amazing thread. I am also another one to read this entirely =) I am a firm believer in the productive future of LEDs. I have done an LED grow and this just kicks ass. Best of luck!

 

[Hydro-Grow-LED]

Wow what an amazing thread you have. I just read every single comment since page one and you know your shit girl. Great way to get the word out and in a completely well informed and thought provoking way too. You have got many interested and the Pro-grow will definitely help solidify the skepticism. I'm very interested as many are, and I wish you the best in your business. I honestly believe coming on here, although maybe not you intentions, will benefit your pockets. And I honestly believe you are deserving. One person will buy one and show this person who tells that person, ect. This day and age people are extremely lazy and we've somehow lost our identity as innovators and just leave it for the next person. Well this seems to be legit and I want to thank you for sharing your information and wonderful insight into the community that really appreciates it. Like a few other have said on here, I have been pretty skeptical and LEDs but this has really sparked my interest.

Thank you

I say that to the rest of you as well, who have voiced similar opinions, and appreciate you taking the time to read what I write.

 

[Hydro-Grow-LED]

I snapped several pictures tonight (9-3-09), but only two came out somewhat decent The oldest plant in this tray, is about 2.5 weeks, but it is not in these photos. I'll post more (and hopefully better) pictures in another 2-3 days.

 

[Hydro-Grow-LED]

How about no fans pointing at the light and your hand an inch away? Comparable to HID with glass shield?

Also the 126w says 5000 lumens - is that true? There are 55w PLL lights that have 5000 lumens.

I'm a bit confused, as there were not fans pointed at the bulbs when I took the temperature readings. If you're talking about our 126W LED at 1" away, the heat is less than a CFL at 1". You can hold your hand to the glass on the LED's, it's not hot...

Yes, our 126W currently has about 5000 lumens of targeted, wavelength specific light. Comparing lumens with LED's, vs lumens with HID/CFL (which produce wide spectra of light), is like comparing apples and oranges. HID's only supply plants with about 10-15% usable light, vs a wavelength-specific LED at 85-100%. We provide a lumen value so you are able to compare the light output of our LED panel, vs other LED panels, not against HID.

The test I am currently doing with MH vs LED, feautres a 29,000 lumen Hortilux Blue bulb, against our 5000 lumen LED panel, yet our panel with almost 6x (83%) less lumens, is outperforming it. It just shows that lumens are only an efficient way of measuring light for plants, if you're using light at the specific wavelengths that plants use, and not a wide-spectrum source.

 

[growMEDS]

Thank you for the explanations.

Is there glass over the led's? on all the setups?

 

[zenoonez]

Interesting thread. I will be sure to watch for this guest grower and see what he has to say about it. I am curious though, how did you determine what percentage of light was being utilized by the plants and various wavelengths?

 

[Hydro-Grow-LED]

Thank you for the explanations.

Is there glass over the led's? on all the setups?

Yes, all of our LED's have a plexiglass covering. They also have reflective material on the board beside the LED's.

 

[Hydro-Grow-LED]

Interesting thread. I will be sure to watch for this guest grower and see what he has to say about it. I am curious though, how did you determine what percentage of light was being utilized by the plants and various wavelengths?

Lots and Lots and Lots and Lots and Lots and Lots (this could go on all day) of research. Then there was Lots and Lots and Lots (" " " ") of applying the research to a workable design, and refining that design to be efficient for our application. It took me 2 years of design and testing, with a solid 6 months of research prior to that, and continued research up until this day, to develop our current light. We've built many different test units, and made several advancements with each new configuration we've tested. I'm constantly searching for new information and more efficient ways of growing with LED's, but so far what I've got has tested to be the most effective. Anyhow, it all began because I'm a highly devoted pothead, and wanted a better way of growing my plants while using less energy. I didn't think the current products on the market (at the time, and most even now) were at the point where they should be, so I took it upon myself to bring them there.

Unlike almost all of the companies developing LED lights, I knew that 90% of the people who would end up using my lights would be growing weed, and as such, I built my lights specifically around the key absorption points for marijuana. If you see my unit from the face, you'll notice it's unlike any other on the market, as I redesigned all of my lights from the ground up, instead of using the basic designs that every other MFR in China gives you. Most of the Chinese MFR's don't test their lights on plants, they rely on the consumer to do it, so why would you trust them to design the lights efficiently for our application? I don't, but every other product on the market follows the same basic pattern: 90W UFO, 180W UFO, 120W Rectangle (112W or 119W depending on MFR), 300W Rectangle (288W, or modified with 3W LED's to 350W), and 600W (576W), which is what the Chinese MFR gives you. It seems as though a lot of other companies haven't taken much initiative in creating their own designs, they've simply revolved their lights around the original way it was put together by the Chinese MFR.

 

[zenoonez]

I appreciate the reply and I am sorry if I didn't word it correctly in the previous question so I will try again in a different way. You said that you have identified various wavelengths at which mj uses light most efficiently. Did you do this independently using a some study to differentiate differences between different wavelengths or were these wavelength decisions based upon previously done research? Another question if you don't mind them so much... Do you foresee an increase in efficiency of leds in the future meaning do you foresee having higher photon output per watt coming in the future? The standard measure of light output mentioned here being lumen per watt but we all know that the lumen scale is misleading in regards to plants so I guess the most accurate for our use would be PAR but I still like the idea of measuring photon per watt so I will just end my rambling question here.

 

[Hydro-Grow-LED]

The wavelengths were based upon previously done research, not my own testing. I leave that to the guys who spend years in labs looking through microscopes. The ratios I developed, via calculations based on research, then fine tuned hem by testing multiple different units to see what works best. I combined research from many different sources, on every individual topic regarding LED's, prior to making any determinations. For example, multiple sources reporting on White LED's, multiple sources on Orange LED's (and testing them), multiple sources on LED efficacy (from different MFR's), etc... I've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours doing it all.

As far as a higher lumen per watt value (since all LED MFR's rate their products in lumens), in my opinion yes, LED's will continue making advancements, and their efficiency will continue to increase. Lumens are a unit of measurement regarding how bright a light appears to us. Since we're talking about the light that plants use specifically, if it's brighter to us, it's also brighter to them. So when a MFR rates a blue at 17lm, and another MFR rates the same blue at 36lm, it's easy to determine that the 36lm LED will be brighter to the plant as well. We are currently researching different LED MFR's to develop a "PRO" model light, that will use higher lumen per watt LED's. The unit will be priced accordingly, but we'll hopefully be able to get a 40%-50% increase in light, while still using 126W.

 

[Darkangelaudio@]

It's GOT to be Ed.... But it would be nice if it was RezDog.... :]

 

[zenoonez]

Thanks again for answering questions, I will continue to read and again, I look forward to seeing what your test grower comes up with. Almost every test grow I have seen so far with LEDs over a few sites has struck out. Not meaning that it didn't work but that it didn't work well enough to justify the cost. Oh well, I guess we will see what comes of it. Good luck!
Zeno