LED Growers Unite, Who makes the BEST LED and how long has it lasted ? Cast Your Vote!!!

[aCBD]

Very informative thread
Can't contribute much to the thread other than sharing my experience.
Years ago i purchased my first led light when they became a thing but it was a very bad experience. It was blurple light, had 300W power outdraw, cost me 500 bucks, created a hot spot, wasn't much cooler than using hps with an adjust-a-wing reflector and couldn't compete with it in any way despite the advertising.
So this time i wanted to make it right when investing so much money and did a lot of research before my purchase.
My brand of choice is Spider Farmer. Their SE 5000 model with 480W is what i use for late veg and flowering all year round. Really like the stepless knob for the power draw and that i can put the power supply outside the box in summer and inside again in the winter to blow a fan on it and gain some degrees.
The results are also working for me and that's why i got a Spider Farmer SE 3000 (300W) for my veg/mother room to replace the Viparspectra P1000 (100W) for now and maybe using it for smaller projects in the future.
Is Spider Farmer the best? Probably not and i don't know but i got my money worth.
Hope this helps somebody in any way and maybe i should mention that the Spider Farmer Halloween Sale will end today and that i am in no way connected to them, just a happy customer
Attached some older pictures

 

[Rocket Soul]

What nm is magenta?

Its purple/magenta in your eye, plants are very apt at differentiating between true violet and blue+red mix.

 

[FellaAndrene]

Anyone try the Valoyas? https://www.valoya.com/medical-plants/

They've done tons of research specifically on the effects of different light spectra on Cannabis.

The Effect of Light Spectrum on the Morphology and Cannabinoid Content of Cannabis sativa L.

The morphology, inflorescence yield, and secondary metabolite accumulation in hemp type Cannabis sativa can be influenced by the R:FR ratio or the amount of short wavelength radiation in a spectrum

It's a local company, but I've heard that they've actually declined to sell any gear to our growshops.

I understand their choice in this, though - even our hemp breeders are and hemp processors are constantly being bombarded by the local officials with their bullshit inquiries and awful hysteric decisions.

EDIT: Personally I've used HLG LEDs for about six years now, and I have no complaints. The lights still work 100 %.

 

[420PyRoS]

Its purple/magenta in your eye, plants are very apt at differentiating between true violet and blue+red mix.

Exactly. I'm just poking fun at the spectrums. Red/blue are at opposite ends.

I guess you can say we 'see' it as blurple. Our brains do some funky stuff.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Anyone try the Valoyas? https://www.valoya.com/medical-plants/

They've done tons of research specifically on the effects of different light spectra on Cannabis.

The Effect of Light Spectrum on the Morphology and Cannabinoid Content of Cannabis sativa L.

The morphology, inflorescence yield, and secondary metabolite accumulation in hemp type Cannabis sativa can be influenced by the R:FR ratio or the amount of short wavelength radiation in a spectrum

It's a local company, but I've heard that they've actually declined to sell any gear to our growshops.

I understand their choice in this, though - even our hemp breeders are and hemp processors are constantly being bombarded by the local officials with their bullshit inquiries and awful hysteric decisions.

EDIT: Personally I've used HLG LEDs for about six years now, and I have no complaints. The lights still work 100 %.

About time somebody bring up Valoya! They seem to do excellent work around spectrum but for all my posting and forum nerding ive not met anyone who uses their full on experimental spectrums.
They are Finnish, right? Hej från en Utlands Svensk, som blev temporärt tvingad tillbaka :/

Ive forgot about them and will review those papers, on initial view they seem really interesting but i can see a few missing details in their approach.

 

[Mithridate]

What nm is magenta?

Hear me out, hear me out..

With data on hand...

Should be 428 in a fucked up kind of way ?

 

[acespicoli]

Samsung LM301H EVO​

This is the LED diode spider farmer is using in many of the latest 2024 light fixtures
Its arguably the best of the horticultural top class products available at the moment
IMO thats where im at for residential lighting,


Anyone disagree/agree and why ?


Think this would be a educational discussion at this point.
Will add one observation I piked up along the way while this thread ... here it is!!!
There are other producers of LED fixtures who are able to tweak the efficiently numbers, here how
What they are doing is adding a ultra high efficiency red spectrum light for the flowering spectrum

While it does appear the numbers are fudged a little it seems effective and legit.
Adding those extra reds or red bars may be a benefit in flower.

What say you?

 

[Cannabis Critic]

I didn’t see BIOS Lighting mentioned

 

[acespicoli]

I didn’t see BIOS Lighting mentioned

�

	Endeavour 1750 Luna 1750 Luna 2015	Endeavour 970 Luna 1750 Luna 2015	Li2 Luna 1750 Luna 2015
Endeavour 1750 $1,149 MSRP	Endeavour 970 $799 MSRP	Li2 $1,399 MSRP EXPLORE
PPF	1750 μmol/s	970 μmol/s	2,100 μmolls
PAR Efficacy	2.7 μmol/J	2.8 μmol/J	2.6 μmol/J
Watts	650W	340W	800W
Spectrum	Broad	Broad	Broad
Input Voltage	120-277 or 277-480VAC	120-277 or 277-480VAC	180 to 480VAC
Mounting Height Above Plant Canopy	6 to 18 inches	6 to 18 inches	12 to 24 inches
Fixture and PSU Weight	19 pounds	19 pounds	43.4 pounds
Dimming	0-10V	0-10V	0-10V
Applications	Indoor, single or multi-tier	Indoor, single or multi-tier	Indoor, single or multi-tier
Ingress Protection	IP66	IP66	IP66
Warranty	7-Year Fixture, 5-Year PSU	7-Year Fixture, 5-Year PSU	7-Year Fixture, 5-Year PSU

Nice plug brother they look sweet will be sure to add this to the choices and future comparisons
Thanks for sharing your find!

*Added to poll choices 11/7/2024

 

[acespicoli]

Surpassing the capabilities of both the Samsung LM301H and LM301B LEDs, these EVO LEDs redefine plant growth enhancement. With superior light quality and an increased light output per LED, they harness a more potent blue spectrum, all while achieving a level of efficiency unattainable by non-EVO LEDs. Veg footprint is 3 x 3 ft, Flowering footprint is 2 x 2 ft.


LM301H EVO

Data_Sheet_LM301H_EVO_Rev.2.1.pdf

drive.google.com

White_Paper_Samsung_Horticulture_LED_181121.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[acespicoli]

Electrons radiate or absorb energy in the form of photons when they are accelerated.

Wave–particle duality - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

While electrons were thought to be particles until their wave properties were discovered; for photons it was the opposite. In 1887, Heinrich Hertz observed that when light with sufficient frequency hits a metallic surface, the surface emits cathode rays, what are now called electrons.[23]: 399  In 1902, Philipp Lenard discovered that the maximum possible energy of an ejected electron is unrelated to its intensity.[24] This observation is at odds with classical electromagnetism, which predicts that the electron's energy should be proportional to the intensity of the incident radiation.[25]: 24  In 1905, Albert Einstein suggested that the energy of the light must occur a finite number of energy quanta.[26] He postulated that electrons can receive energy from an electromagnetic field only in discrete units (quanta or photons): an amount of energy E that was related to the frequency f of the light by

A photon of wavelength � comes in from the left, collides with a target at rest, and a new photon of wavelength �′

emerges at an angle �

.
The target recoils, and the photons have provided momentum to the target.
where h is the Planck constant (6.626×10−34 J⋅s).

Only photons of a high enough frequency (above a certain threshold value which is the work function) could knock an electron free. For example, photons of blue light had sufficient energy to free an electron from the metal he used, but photons of red light did not. One photon of light above the threshold frequency could release only one electron; the higher the frequency of a photon, the higher the kinetic energy of the emitted electron, but no amount of light below the threshold frequency could release an electron.

Work function - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Work functions of elements​

The work function depends on the configurations of atoms at the surface of the material. For example, on polycrystalline silver the work function is 4.26 eV, but on silver crystals it varies for different crystal faces as (100) face: 4.64 eV, (110) face: 4.52 eV, (111) face: 4.74 eV.[13] Ranges for typical surfaces are shown in the table below.[14]

Work function of elements (eV)

Ag​	4.26 – 4.74	Al​	4.06 – 4.26	As​	3.75
Au​	5.10 – 5.47	B​	~4.45	Ba​	2.52 – 2.70
Be​	4.98	Bi​	4.31	C​	~5
Ca​	2.87	Cd​	4.08	Ce​	2.9
Co​	5	Cr​	4.5	Cs​	1.95
Cu​	4.53 – 5.10	Eu​	2.5	Fe:​	4.67 – 4.81
Ga​	4.32	Gd​	2.90	Hf​	3.90
Hg​	4.475	In​	4.09	Ir​	5.00 – 5.67
K​	2.29	La​	3.5	Li​	2.9
Lu​	~3.3	Mg​	3.66	Mn​	4.1
Mo​	4.36 – 4.95	Na​	2.36	Nb​	3.95 – 4.87
Nd​	3.2	Ni​	5.04 – 5.35	Os​	5.93
Pb​	4.25	Pd​	5.22 – 5.60	Pt​	5.12 – 5.93
Rb​	2.261	Re​	4.72	Rh​	4.98
Ru​	4.71	Sb​	4.55 – 4.70	Sc​	3.5
Se​	5.9	Si​	4.60 – 4.85	Sm​	2.7
Sn​	4.42	Sr​	~2.59	Ta​	4.00 – 4.80
Tb​	3.00	Te​	4.95	Th​	3.4
Ti​	4.33	Tl​	~3.84	U​	3.63 – 3.90
V​	4.3	W​	4.32 – 4.55	Y​	3.1
Yb​	2.60[15]	Zn​	3.63 – 4.9	Zr​	4.05

Photon energy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Prs2xs]

I currently run mix of LEDS, 2=Mars SP6500, 1-photobio 600, 1-Fluence spider fang 2i, and I can't say that I notice anything different in growth rate or quality of the crop between lights. I think most manufacturers have similar spectrums, pick the intensity you need and go with it!
JMHO

 

[Rocket Soul]

I currently run mix of LEDS, 2=Mars SP6500, 1-photobio 600, 1-Fluence spider fang 2i, and I can't say that I notice anything different in growth rate or quality of the crop between lights. I think most manufacturers have similar spectrums, pick the intensity you need and go with it!
JMHO

I agree on led growlight spectrums being very samey and there being little to no difference in crop quality. But that is only cause growers reward the same thing: best possible efficiency, without any regards to spectrum really. The diodes that would make an impact on crop quality (violets/Near UVA and beyond deep reds) all seem to be a drawback on raw ppf/w efficiency. I havent tried the EVO 437nm yet but it would imo be the only diode with a real difference. Yet its still sold as an "efficiency" diode without much noise about its ability to excite chloro b which is almost left uncovered by 450nm based whites.
The efficiency boost could be said to be somewhat of a switch and bait: compared to normal whites these have a slight bit less phosphor at the same cct which measures spectrum as response to human eyes,- which means they look more efficient than regulars when they are actually a bit "colder" and blue heavy than a normal diode. Still a fine diode though just as long as paired with a good combo of high efficiency reds.

 

[hillbil]

Mixed whites, a few deep red and far red diodes and fewer still uva or near uv
Good components and reputation important
Much less difference between manufacturers of diodes now

 

[Rocket Soul]

Mixed whites, a few deep red and far red diodes and fewer still uva or near uv
Good components and reputation important
Much less difference between manufacturers of diodes now

The only thing i dont agree on is the need for mixed white. Mix 5000+3000k you get 4000k spectrum exactly, ive seen spectrometer results. This is something some companies made for production reasons but marketed as a growbenefits: if you buy 5000 and 3000k diodes you can make any cct between those two. If you went straight for 4000k you would not have that option. But they say that the 5k are for the vegetative cycle and 3k reds for flowers. When in the end its all a wash, same as 4000k. But growers just want to believe in mixed whites.
It would be another thing if you mix evo-h and nromal 450 based diodes. But very few do so, hlg and a handfull. Or adding 90cri or s90.

 

[Prs2xs]

I also use 4-4ft 32w solacure flower power to add uvb into the mix. Whether it increases resin I can’t say, but it works well for helping control height when growing sativas

 

[Rocket Soul]

I also use 4-4ft 32w solacure flower power to add uvb into the mix. Whether it increases resin I can’t say, but it works well for helping control height when growing sativas

I am not myself very much in favor of the flouro uv. Theres a good reasoning behind it: UVR8 gene seeming to be able to increase THC and triggering it seems to be mainly down to uvb. But very few flouros seem to be able to reach the perfect actionspectrum of that gene without bringing lots of uvc and not bringing enough uva, which seems to be necessary to build up some hardiness to actually stand uvb without damage.
Look at the suns spectrum for inspiration on how to add uv succesfully blue>violet/uva>uvb . The most successful applications ive seen seems to be centered around adding uvb thru 285nm. Uvr8 action spectrum: correct nm mean you will get much more stimulus from your output. Just 20nm difference has a 10x effect. But stay away from uv <280nm : this is uvc and dangerous both for your plant just as your skin, it causes melanomas and cancer.

Uv supplement hasnt been fully figured out yet but the small scale results ive seen seems to support that uvb flouros are just as likely to increase production but also break it down: its like it was a kinda sunscreen. Bugbee didnt get significant results but there was some rather big problems with his approach imo. Reading thru the whole paper is helpfull, most people just go directly tp results and conclusions

 

[hillbil]

I don’t think mixed white diode color diodes are necessary but that is where almost the whole market is going.
I grew many plants under discreet diode panels at 3750k for years. Even 3000k COBs were quite scarce.
The higher k value diodes are usually more efficient in PAR ratings and help with advertising.

 

[Ca++]

Mixed whites might be useful, if they didn't share the exact same blue peak. Singular blue peaks vs a number of smaller ones that cumulatively carry the same energy, could be a game changer. It's been verified that damage to eyes is much reduced by this, but no plant studies yet. However we do know blue in bloom does more to lower yield than raise it. With studies showing each 1% more blue, was more than a 1% loss. IIRC 3%, but at least 2%. If only we could move away from the single peak. We know that flanking that blue peak for production, are the peaks involved with regulation. Tasks that can give and take energy, as required. It would almost be daft not to think a single peak is bad news. While not really that presumptuous to think more smaller peaks would be better. More like the flat line of the sun(I know some people will hear 'like the sun' and be sold the idea)

 

[Rocket Soul]

Mixed whites might be useful, if they didn't share the exact same blue peak. Singular blue peaks vs a number of smaller ones that cumulatively carry the same energy, could be a game changer. It's been verified that damage to eyes is much reduced by this, but no plant studies yet. However we do know blue in bloom does more to lower yield than raise it. With studies showing each 1% more blue, was more than a 1% loss. IIRC 3%, but at least 2%. If only we could move away from the single peak. We know that flanking that blue peak for production, are the peaks involved with regulation. Tasks that can give and take energy, as required. It would almost be daft not to think a single peak is bad news. While not really that presumptuous to think more smaller peaks would be better. More like the flat line of the sun(I know some people will hear 'like the sun' and be sold the idea)

Correction: we know that more 450nm in bloom works against yield. In my knowledge none of the studies done has looked at the effects of using blues targeting both chloro a or b. Its sad but this science on RGB seems like its mainly based around availability of RGB leds way back in the day, and now we just build upon those old results by continuing down the same lines of research. But my best guess is that there is atleast some loss, but adding exotic blue peaks around 420-435 could give a boost in yield depending on levels. Noone ive querried nor any studies seems to be able to give an answer on this: is it the height of the blue peak that lowers yield or total amount of blues? To me the whole story isnt clear yet. If you got good solid studies i would love to see and have my mind changed though
But yes id happily admit that more blue leans towards less yield but i added 10% of 400/365 nm and saw no yield loss, if anything gains both in quality (smells and taste), plant health and possibly yield aswell but obviously there was an increase in total wattage aswell. And repeated measurement is not the same as comparing side by side.

Edit: hlg diablo with evos have a take on double blue peak but quite high blue levels for my taste. This is my take on double blue peak using 405 and 420nm supplement: