LED and BUD QUALITY

[TrifektaSeeds]

Sorry you can laugh all you want but non of you can explain how my plants hug the cool tube with no bleaching in sight...

Probably most of you just burn your plants with heat, ive never encountered light burn as you described it.

I'm sure you're just talk.

100w of led 2ft away barely registers on a thermometer but will bleach tf out of young plants without the right care getting to that 100w.

Maybe leds, well this tech is not healthy to no living tissue so I can believe that.

It’s (generally) red photons, or very high light intensity. It’s not heat.

Understanding Photobleaching in Cannabis

Photobleaching is predominantly induced by applying too much of the wrong light to plants during flower development.

fluence-led.com

No, it's not high light intensity haha
Its the heat that follows if you get too close.
Again, under hps my plants touch the glass, and no bleaching in sight, maybe I'm just a better grower who knows I don't judge.
Under the center point of my hoods I have over 2000 ppfd, no bleaching...
This theory don't hold merit to skilled growers, carry on

 

[Crooked8]

Sorry you can laugh all you want but non of you can explain how my plants hug the cool tube with no bleaching in sight...

Probably most of you just burn your plants with heat, ive never encountered light burn as you described it.


Maybe leds, well this tech is not healthy to no living tissue so I can believe that.

No, it's not high light intensity haha
Its the heat that follows if you get too close.
Again, under hps my plants touch the glass, and no bleaching in sight, maybe I'm just a better grower who knows I don't judge.
Under the center point of my hoods I have over 2000 ppfd, no bleaching...
This theory don't hold merit to skilled growers, carry on

Dude, you just seriously have no idea what youre talking about. You keep referencing your one cool tube or whatever, nobody cares. Photobleaching has been proven by multiple people to be directly related to far red. It is not heat. Unless you can prove it, just stop acting like you know shit. Next youre gonna say something absurd like evolution has been disproven…..oh wait, you already did.

 

[TrifektaSeeds]

And you say it didn't, your post weighs no more than mine, so be cool bro, you take stuff too personal, you own this board or some ?

And yeah sorry your "proof" don't mean nothing to me, never happens to me, I don't need science referencing to each lame thing what are you serious ?
My Own Exp !
Never bleached a plant, deal with it.
If you did then I'm either lucky or just too good at what I do, don't hate, carry on.

 

[JKD]

FWIW I’ve only had bleaching with HPS. That was 3 brand new 600W lamps over a 6 x 3, and too close to the canopy.

In another interview with Fluence lead scientist David Hawley he discusses it as ratio of red photons rather than ‘amount’. He says 60% and over you’re likely to get it even at low PPFD, 40% or less and you’re unlikely to even at high PPFD. An inference from this is you could resolve bleaching by adding white light and increasing PPFD rather than by removing the red portion or reducing PPFD.

 

[Crooked8]

And you say it didn't, your post weighs no more than mine, so be cool bro, you take stuff too personal, you own this board or some ?

And yeah sorry your "proof" don't mean nothing to me, never happens to me, I don't need science referencing to each lame thing what are you serious ?
My Own Exp !
Never bleached a plant, deal with it.
If you did then I'm either lucky or just too good at what I do, don't hate, carry on.

haha ok man, keep denying science, im not hating, its just stupid as hell. Heres some references explaining why this happens and how it has nothing to do with heat.

StackPath

How Photobleaching Can Ruin Your Cannabis Crop - Greenhouse Grower

“If growers are using a more red-rich spectrum — which induces photobleaching at much lower levels”

 

[Ca++]

FWIW I’ve only had bleaching with HPS. That was 3 brand new 600W lamps over a 6 x 3, and too close to the canopy.

In another interview with Fluence lead scientist David Hawley he discusses it as ratio of red photons rather than ‘amount’. He says 60% and over you’re likely to get it even at low PPFD, 40% or less and you’re unlikely to even at high PPFD. An inference from this is you could resolve bleaching by adding white light and increasing PPFD rather than by removing the red portion or reducing PPFD.

Yes, with a balanced spectrum, the plant can take huge amounts of light. More than the sun can give. The further out of balance the light gets, the more it needs turning down, to prevent damage.

The grower aiming for 600ppfd can get there using quite a bit of red. Which is nice, as making it is quite efficient. So an energy saving can be made, using lights with as much as 80% red, though 60% is more accommodating for awkward strains.
That same light might be useless at 1200ppfd. Where R40 (40% red) lighting is more appropriate. Allowing areas to peak over 1600ppfd, without bleaching.

The feeling is, that we need the blue to regulate photosynthesis. The plant is watching the blue (you might say) in order to judge how to act. Lot's of photosynthesis means lots of bleaching oxygen products are created, and must be dealt with. If it doesn't see the blue, it doesn't quite register what is going on. These products get out of control, and destroy (bleach) the chlorophyll.

It's beyond what we need to know as growers, but of interest.



I would like to see this plant wrapped around a cool tube. As someone that has trialed water jackets, that seems like the last part of this nonsense to clear up. In my trial, I used old bits of wood to hold the tube over a bucket for a trial run. The wood started steaming. With that in mind, my air cooled experience isn't worth speaking of. Neither are really 'that' good.

 

[Brother Nature]

Only time I’ve seen my plants bleach with led was back when blurple was the main type of lights used, was trying out a micro grow in an old PC case and using a cheap blurple light, bleached the shit out of the little plant in there, also grew pretty average quality.


Have had colas grown into my current LEDs and not seen it.


That’s my stience and I’m sticking to it!

 

[Boo]

got a question for you LED guys...I've got a photontek 600 in a 5'x5' tent...got the light on full blast and am a bit confused...seems the trichomes on this run aren't all that great...flowers look stellar but seem to have little trichs on them...is it possible I've got too much light in the tent, flowers are about 12" from the fixture...I've used HPS for decades and have never seen this...I've grown the same strain for ages and this is the first I've seen of this...

 

[CocoNut 420]

I can't say I've noticed any affect on trichs in particular, but my eyesight isn't great and even less so under blinding light so I'm not ruling it out.

What I have noticed with too much light is the top bud sizes are way off what you'd expected.

 

[Boo]

all the flowers are consistant with what I have grown in the past but I moved my tent and now I see beautiful flowers but they are devoid of trichs for the most past...the budlet is coated but no sugar leaves...I've been growing since '99 and have never seen this with my HPS...

 

[Crooked8]

all the flowers are consistant with what I have grown in the past but I moved my tent and now I see beautiful flowers but they are devoid of trichs for the most past...the budlet is coated but no sugar leaves...I've been growing since '99 and have never seen this with my HPS...

Do you happen to have some other parameter values we could help manage? What is your ambient temp vs leaf surface temp from the start of flower to the end? Your environments RH from start of cycle to the finish. Basically your VPD values. Do you know your current light intensity in ppfd vs what it was with your hps? If we narrow those things down im sure we can spot whats going on. Happy to help.

 

[Ca++]

5x5 is quite big isn't it. Under 300w per meter. I'm not sure how much HPS we are comparing to, but 300 is on the low side


@CocoNut 420

too much light is the top bud sizes are way off what you'd expected

You mean lots less?
TBH I just did a higher light run by some margin, and saw no gain from it.
What do you call too much though?

 

[Ca++]

Wrong button..

 

[JKD]

Here’s a review & PPFD map for it

Photontek X 600w PRO PAR Test & Review - Coco For Cannabis

Coco for Cannabis & Migro grow light test. Photontek X600w PRO Review, Video, PAR map, PPF & PPFD, Efficiency, Hanging Height, Harvest Estimates

www.cocoforcannabis.com

 

[g0yit0]

haha ok man, keep denying science, im not hating, its just stupid as hell. Heres some references explaining why this happens and how it has nothing to do with heat.

StackPath

How Photobleaching Can Ruin Your Cannabis Crop - Greenhouse Grower

“If growers are using a more red-rich spectrum — which induces photobleaching at much lower levels”

And you trust an article that has no scientific basis whatsoever???
apart from telling lies... or don't you realize?


Hawley says. "Chlorophyll is what makes plants look green, so if it's gone, what's left is white floral tissue."

Do you really not know that there are many more photoreceptor cells inside plants?

When the end of the crop comes and you leave the plant without food and it loses chlorophyll, colors that are not green appear and those are other photoreceptors...

 

[Brother Nature]

Have swapped my flower tent back to LED only or the summer, 640w led bars. Happy with the results so far but can still improve a few things for the next run..

Kwik seeds c99, peak seeds c99 (f7), Afghaan 99 (Afghaan90 x c99) -

 

[Crooked8]

And you trust an article that has no scientific basis whatsoever???
apart from telling lies... or don't you realize?


Hawley says. "Chlorophyll is what makes plants look green, so if it's gone, what's left is white floral tissue."

Do you really not know that there are many more photoreceptor cells inside plants?

When the end of the crop comes and you leave the plant without food and it loses chlorophyll, colors that are not green appear and those are other photoreceptors...

What gave you the idea i didnt know about photoreceptors? This far red photobleaching correllation is well understood. Simply googling it will give many results. Im not saying red light is the only possible reason it could happen, but its easy to photobleach plants with more red.

 

[CannaT]

@unclefishstick
Thats because its some amazing herb.
Love her dearly, shes our main gal these days. Well one of em.

Heres ours at only day 36.
View attachment 18950442 View attachment 18950443

How long this cut flower it look almost done at 5 weeks ? Never saw this in my life.

 

[Crooked8]

How long this cut flower it look almost done at 5 weeks ? Never saw this in my life.

Its a 9 weeker but you can take it at 8 no problem

 

[CocoNut 420]

5x5 is quite big isn't it. Under 300w per meter. I'm not sure how much HPS we are comparing to, but 300 is on the low side


@CocoNut 420

You mean lots less?
TBH I just did a higher light run by some margin, and saw no gain from it.
What do you call too much though?

Yes less yeild not more.

I started with a 300w Mars light and everything worked out well no problems.

I then moved onto 4x 240w lm301 boards and was disappointed with the result, i needed a few crops to adopt some changes and find the sweet spot with light (±70k lux for me)
that's when I started getting above my average crops.

I've got a 720w bar light these days and a few others, I've two 250w bar lights above my current crop.