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LED and BUD QUALITY
- Thread starter Tropical Sun
- Start date
TrainingHay
Member
If a plant doesn't activate carotenoids, will it produce strigolactones? No strigolactone, no mycorrhizae. Combine that with a lack of red, and everyone's plants:
A) Are blue, not green.
B) Have dead leaves.
C) Weak boring flavor
D) Weak boring affect
E) Gene pool getting progressively worse
F) All of the Above
I smoke alot of led weed grown with stock off the shelf bottle nutes. It sucks.
greyfader
Well-known member
are you saying that LEDs don't activate carotenoids? because, if so, you are very wrong! white light LEDs are phosphor-coated blues and so have a high blue ratio.
carotenoids absorb light in the 400-600nm range with a peak at 450nm.
Carotenoids actually have a peak after 460 and after 480... most LED tend to peak at 450 and then "because green light is ushelesh in plants" again at or right before 600nm.
these are the spectra for the latest samsung EVO
this is another Samsung, but assembled by V-tac 4000K
these spectra are utter shit for plant growing, not as bad as HPS and fluorescent, but shit it is 'cause it ain't sun...
if u want sun.... gotta move to northern calif.... maui... thailand....panama....Jamacia... or god forbid mexico...
or we could actually stop scamming peopple, because none of the "full spectrum" lights ARE fullspectrum other than the bullshit they use to sell them.
Ca++
Well-known member
In reality, the title is meaningless to us. We can have no expectation of what it means. It's not a standard. It's just a worthless marketing tool, that sounds like it might mean something. But doesn't.
The notion that carrots help us see in the dark, is more applicable to our plants than most of what was just said. I could go there with the facts, but it doesn't seem relevant
The notion that carrots help us see in the dark, is more applicable to our plants than most of what was just said. I could go there with the facts, but it doesn't seem relevant
there is only '1' sun ... at least in our solar system...
Rocket Soul
Well-known member
What lack of reds?!?
Facts are that leds can be combined to create pretty much any spectrum with more photons per watt than any other light source.
Yes, there are a few plant specific nm which arent covered by super efficient diodes; 630, 420 and infra red isnt super efficient but most of these have work arounds.
All youre saying is that youre smoking boring weed grown by shitty leds. Then buy better weed or better leds.
With just some very minimal work with led supplementation our quality has gone up beyond most stuff you find in any grow-club we have around. Its not hard, its just do a bit of reading and do a bit of work.
HPS is great much better than LED for resin quality. It’s also practically retard proof compared to led
Rocket Soul
Well-known member
We did side by sides, hps against basic white led. Led side won in yield and quality with our cultivar but agree, some strains do shit under plain white. But work your led a little, litterally just 25$ per m worth of near uv, and quality is fantastic.
No offense but statements like retard proof light make you sound like you need a retard proof light, doesnt make you sound like a better grower.
Edit: and in any case CMH is both easier to grow with and outyields and out quality hps watt per watt.
Edit 2: the one negative thing you could say about the led side in our comparison was that led buds where maybe a bit on the smaller side. My grow bro cursed me a bit for a while until we got final weights. What we saw was that a hps pound looked a lot bigger than a led grown pound. More weight per volume equals higher density; hps bud seems to lose more weight in the drying. But i thought we were all after density, right?
Hps growers seems to have the concept of density a bit wrong; they squeeze the wet bud; if its noce and hard they think "density". But that isnt really density, density is mass per volume.
This thing, HPS buds being more full of water due to infrared also make HPS buds look much better on forums, big fat colas versus smaller looking buds, it makes it less obvious for a forum viewer without experience in growing a good led crop, that led actually will produce.
But i agree, some cultivars do shit under standard white leds. They call them full spectrum but it isnt true, they miss light from 400-450nm and say 620-700nm and above in far red(which is bioreactive but not technically PAR) If you fill these gaps in you can get amazing quality. I urge anyone to try it.
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Rocket Soul
Well-known member
If i recall correct you did some fairly great work with HPS back in the days, some fantastic looking plants. I dont wanna call anyone a retard for various different reasons only pointing out that saying a light is retard proof is maybe not the best advertisement for the user who use/need it.
But it gets my goat when i see people banging on leds and praising HPS as the eternal sunshine of God with bad reasoning, condemning it in 2 lines of text without really having any argument for it and betraying their lack of really trying to get it to work.
Some years ago the led growing community was different, there was bad lights, blurples and such and then there was DIY. People with a habit of DIYing had a habit of trying, then reading then trying again, looking for better results. Today when led has made more of a break thru its become a game of highest nrs of par at the least amount of $, DIY has sorta gone together with the idea of continuing improvements and development of grow practices. The "Leds cant ever create the same quality" people seem to overlap a bit with this phenomenon; its usually people who dont want to adapt to new lights or improve their practices, just hang new lights, get bud in 8 weeks.
No offense meant in any direction. I think both will work depending on the application, but there is no doubt that you can get quality and quantity with leds if you know what youre doing
Nevile's Haze x O haze) X APPSS.
Ca++
Well-known member
When people are not paying for their power, and have a grow that simple extraction can take care of, then what is wrong with HID. That mindset buys a 600w light for $100, and spends $20 a year on lamps (a greenpower cg every two years). Why would they want to pay 3 times more on LED. To put in a room that already has the HIDs in place. Its just a waste of time and money, they might say. It would be hard to give them reason to change.
The saving in heat and electric are LEDs selling point to me. So here I am in winter, using HID among my LEDs, because its as good a heater as any.
I will stay retarded, if that's how my plants are happiest.
The saving in heat and electric are LEDs selling point to me. So here I am in winter, using HID among my LEDs, because its as good a heater as any.
I will stay retarded, if that's how my plants are happiest.
Rocket Soul
Well-known member
Here temps are a factor, summer with HID would be beyond whats possible. Even with AC we cant keep it down the hottest month and thats with hottest heatsink being around 35C, far lower than most led lights.
Weve also dropped in a bulb sometimes when its been too cold, its basicly a heater that also makes light. But only in order to not use electric heaters. We pay for our power though most around here dont.
Been thinking if we can add some halogen spots on a channel for infrared and 680ish reds: the hps bulbs just dont really fit into our light fixtures, spots would be easier to spread out. After seeing frey faders results with a few incandescents it looks very attractive.
Also with amp limitations led can help you cover more area.
Ca++
Well-known member
Have a look at the halogen spectrum. It's not like the incandescent. I expected it to be close, and started with halogen, before I realised.
It's a shame as getting 500w sticks in a small fitting is handy. Though as I type, I might not be able to buy them anymore anyway.
It's a shame as getting 500w sticks in a small fitting is handy. Though as I type, I might not be able to buy them anymore anyway.
Yes, but you're not ditching one for the other and calling the other group retarded. You're actually doing the smart thing and combining the power of the two to get the goodness of both into your crop. Wish i could.
Brother Nature
Well-known member
Whatever works for people works. There's no one-size-fits all with growing. Some prefer hydro, some coco, and some soil, all work well in the right situations. Same with lights, LED works very well for some, others it doesn't, not a lot of need to over analyze it unless you are at a commercial level and your ROI is impacted by one growth method over another. I love my CMH/LED combo, but it works very well in my grow situation, if I were elsewhere, it may not be my best option. Clearly, LED produces quality, there are plenty here who've proven that time and time again. Hopefully people can get more perspective from these threads than arguments, but we all gotta let our frustrations out somewhere.
