Las Vegas

[soundman]

'Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.'

So I guess that if someone is registered as being mentally ill, then they can't get a gun license....But mental illness is subjective, and can come and go GMT. I'm not sure if a doctors certificate is required to prove mental health, and I doubt a blood test or an IQ test is required before a gun license is issued. Anyway, its easy enough to buy guns illegally in the US, there must be millions of them floating around on the black market. So many are stolen every day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_the_United_States

Regarding the mentally ill portion of your post, to be disqualified from purchasing and owning firearms in the USA is determined by the courts. You need to be involuntarily committed to health facility by the court system. Having a doctor certify you is not the way. Doctors are humans and can let their political and personal viewpoints effect their certifications.

 

[GMT]

Mental illness can come and go. But people are socio/psychopaths from birth. That does not come and go, its a brain defect, like having one arm , they don't have one arm one day and two the next.

 

[shaggyballs]

Well I was hoping to only discuss the sound of gun fire in this video.

Well I was hoping to only discuss the sound of gun fire in this video.

This thread is all F-ed up
Try and stay on topic I ask as I was trying to start a clean thread to only discuss this video which seems to have real hard evidence of multiple shooters.

The first 'close' shots at 0:03 are quickly followed by the 'distant' shots and they both have the same duration so it is probably an echo or as I believe they may be the actual bullets hitting objects such as the street ect. However, at 0:45 the 'distant' shots are heard and aren't followed by the 'close' shots until 1:08. Therefore one may conclude there were at least two guns being fired.

[YOUTUBEIF]4VgKepFuWHE[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[GMT]

Its not your thread man. If you want to redirect it, then say something to capture peoples interest. There's nothing anyone can say about a second shooter as its purely speculation. If Herman was complaining, or a mod, so be it, but at this point you're shouting at the site owner as much as anyone else.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

This thread is all F-ed up
Try and stay on topic I ask as I was trying to start a clean thread to only discuss this video which seems to have real hard evidence of multiple shooters.

The first 'close' shots at 0:03 are quickly followed by the 'distant' shots and they both have the same duration so it is probably an echo or as I believe they may be the actual bullets hitting objects such as the street ect. However, at 0:45 the 'distant' shots are heard and aren't followed by the 'close' shots until 1:08. Therefore one may conclude there were at least two guns being fired.

[YOUTUBEIF]4VgKepFuWHE[/YOUTUBEIF]

Shaggy:

The thread is back on topic after a short, kinda silly interlude.
The thread you were attempting to make was closed because I'd rather not have multiple threads running on this disaster, and the vid you posted in that thread wasn't working for some reason.

I did watch this video, and what you are saying does look/sound to have merit. Agreed there does seem to be some anomaly with the burst of gunfire at 0.45 sounding more distant and this has no echo like the 1st burst of gunfire, and it sounds like a different gun firing completely....

So there definitely appears to be more to this than meets the eye/ear ...

Thanks for posting it.

 

[Green Squall]

Mental illness can come and go. But people are socio/psychopaths from birth. That does not come and go, its a brain defect, like having one arm , they don't have one arm one day and two the next.

There is evidence that psychopaths do have certain brain abnormalities, however "There is no actual diagnosis of psychopathy in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. The best diagnostic instrument to date is the Psychopathy checklist-Revised, is designed to evaluate the recognized characteristics of psychopathic personality and behavior: glibness/superficial charm."

With that being said, I highly doubt a psychopath/sociopath would answer the questions on the test truthfully if they were attempting to obtain a gun. I don't know where you heard about a blood test being used as a diagnostic tool, but I believe that's false.

 

[soundman]

Shaggy, I watched the video. I hear what you are saying. I agree that is suspicious. No explanation for the distant sounding gun fire. It does sound like a different weapon all together. Hard to tell though.

I suspected a second shooter from a lower floor that has windows that open or two shooters in the same room. Those distant shots make me more curious no echo.

 

[Bud Green]

Mental illness can come and go. But people are socio/psychopaths from birth. That does not come and go, its a brain defect, like having one arm , they don't have one arm one day and two the next.

There is no question to anyone, if a person has only one arm or not.
How and who (over the short term) determines the other?

 

[shaggyballs]

Thank you Gypsy and Thank you Soundman for your reply!
Another thing that puzzles me is this picture.

The cops are looking in many directions.
I keep sayin to myself "why?"
Also notice the plain clothes cop with a rifle on a bi-pod looking away from the shooter.( someone pointed out this may be a shotgun) Anyone else agree?
He in my opinion is aiming at something, so is the cop next to him.
I do believe cops will not raise and point there wepon without having a valid target.
Also more than likely that guy has sniper training, thus he is more comfortable in the prone position.

Any comment, for or against my views are welcome.
But let us please stick to things that are logical.

EDIT:
I had to redo the pic, it is up now.

Thanks
Shag

 

[soundman]

I cant load the pic.

I am sure there were so many echos that the police looked many different directions trying to make sense of what is happening. It is common place in these scenarios to scan while sighted up on your weapon. Need to see the pic though to know for sure what you are wanting to show.

 

[soundman]

Tucker Carlson just reported that the hotel guard was shot 6 or so minutes before the guy started shooting the crowd. It was first reported he was shot after the gunman stopped shooting the crowd. Hailed as hero for potentially stopping the shooter from continuing.

Strange.

 

[GMT]

That which is biological is genetic
https://psychcentral.com/news/2012/05/11/scans-show-psychopaths-have-brain-abnormalities/38540.html

https://www.healthyplace.com/person...ic-brain-is-it-different-from-a-normal-brain/
https://en.m.wikiversity.org/wiki/Genes_linked_to_psychopathy

Degree of problem identifiable
http://www.iflscience.com/brain/brains-psychopaths-dysfunctional-wiring/
https://www.livescience.com/49613-psychopaths-brains-punishment.html

Available testing costs
https://securescanners.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItoTT9ujk1gIVbbXtCh2mLgPoEAMYASAAEgJ-ofD_BwE

Background reading

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15877765
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002792.html

 

[Green Squall]

So what are you proposing, GMT? Anyone who wants to purchase a gun needs to get an MRI? Never gonna happen. Also, you never responded to my question about the blood tests being a tool in diagnosing psychopathy/sociopathy?

 

[GMT]

Sorry green.
My only fault is that I expect others to be as competent as me
While the associated genes have been identified, (see link 3), noone has yet released a commercially available blood test kit. I fully expected them to have by now, (not my field, I'm a numbers guy), but it seems MRI scans are still the method being used. They will catch up given enough time, but lesser people take longer than is expected to complete their work tasks.
That's my mistake hands up I jumped the gun.
Wouldn't take much to put one together though.

 

[Water-]

Ever heard of Dr Robert Sapolsky?

He's thinks a lot of what we call mental illness is actually the effects of parasites. Lots of evidence that he is correct.

Great joe rogan podcast here with sapolsky.
Cutting edge stuff. Really fascinating and worth a listen if you want to learn something new.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=obmt_PkIfBE

 

[Capt.Ahab]

I don't know what is going on in that photo Shaggy posted but it definitely is not a display of people in the middle of a firefight.
Those guys aren't aiming at anything.
When you enlarge the photo it is clear the officer on the ground is holding a shotgun. You can see the receiver, ejection port, iron shotgun slug sight on the end of the barrel, a tube magazine under the length of the barrel and see that a sling is mounted at the end of the mag. tube, not a bi pod. No doubt a shotgun.

The officer above him is at ease, rifle down. No immediate threat.

The other officer also looks at ease. The way he is leaning against the vehicle looks lazy.

The guy near the front tire isn't a cop. No shirt, flag in back pocket, on phone and no shoes. He isn't exactly taking cover.

There are people walking around on their phones who don't look too concerned about being in someone's crosshairs.

This looks post-incident to me.

 

[geneva_sativa]

Hey ColdCanna,

Not making any claims, but this could play a part . . .

worth the 15 minutes, though I am of the opinion that there is much more to this story. . . possibly including Arms deals, and Israel based Russian mafia, ISIS, Mossad, and Alphabet Soup Agencia

https://youtu.be/zNqxUuyHFzc

 

[vta]

This is very interesting....basic math proof of second shooter ?


[YOUTUBEIF]JxmEFeKy8aI[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[Thcvhunter]

Those cops in Shaggy's pic are not trained well.
They are crowding their cover.

There's two ways of looking at this,
1) The Govt is all good and loving and wants to take care of us and protect us from ourselves.
2) The stories we are fed are manufactured lies to cover the ugly truths. Anyone who has gone deep with entheogens knows how uncomfortable the truth really is.

To see what's really going on in this shooting, research what was going to be voted on for the next day (that Monday)

 

[shaggyballs]

So I'm not entirely following the 2nd shooter theory? For those that support the idea, are you saying that its a government cover up like a Manchurian candidate, or maybe they simply don't know if there is a 2nd or not, or last of all maybe they do think there is someone else on the loose but they are being quiet as to not alert the person they are hunting them? I don't see the conspiracy value of this, usually a conspiracy would benefit some group. On this one the only people benefiting would be the anti-gun folks but that wont go anywhere with conservatives in office.... So what is the take on this from your perspective. My take on the multiple shooters is maybe there was maybe there was not but there sure is a lot of things that don't add up, like why does 1 man need 25 rifles? Why are miltary trained folks saying they hear multiple wepons and they are even stating they can tell what kind of gun is firing, I just have a lot of questions about things that don't make sense to me.
Like why 1 man need 25 different wepons?
Is it even possible to unload 25 guns in under 10 minutes?
Also there is a lot of witnesses that are saying they think there were more than 1 shooter. I can not vouch for what others here are saying like they can here but they say they have a vast background in weaponry and can even say they recognize the sound of a 308 and other guns by their rate of fire just look back and you will be able to read what they said first hand. Maybe even ask them why they are saying such things. May I politely ask you to read the entire thread and disprove what these wepon experts are saying. also did you hear the taxi cab driver video it sure sounds like we had a shooter in the mandalay bay, but even the cab driver thinks there is a shooter close and a shooter far away. Listen to the thing for your self and give us anexplaination. (Debunk it for us step by step if you disagree.(btw, those cops in the picture are clearly just confused and trying to assess the situation You may be right but they seem to think there were more than 1 threat.... alot of people critize cops, I have several in my family so I don't knock cops, unless they are dirty. but I myself am a firefighter/ first responder and people can talk all day but theres nothing like the minute you show up to a real emergency and you know you might die that day....I have much respect for first responders my best friend is one, so I have a great deal of respect for you and all first responders. so lets take into account that they are humans and probly terrified and confused.
The guy laying on the ground is certainly confused, how effective would a shotgun be while lying on the ground, if the slug goes very far it will be skipping off the ground. It would seem that the cops who are trained to be cool in these types of situations are much more panicked then the dude on his cell phone and the other folks standing in the open.
In summary I just think there is a lot of mistery to this story.


@GMT- if you are proposing that anyone purchasing a weapon submit DNA to the government- just take a second and think about the implications on personal freedom there. The washington post (get that- a liberal puff paper of all things ) just came out with a piece showing that something like 80% of gun crimes were committed by people who didnt legally own the weapon, just another case of how gun laws really only infringe on the good guys, the bad guys will always find the guns. There are 30,000 gun deaths every year- 2/3rds of those are suicides so irrelevant, that leaves about 10,000 homicides out of 350,000,000 people- thats .0003% of citizens- if you then figure that a huge amount of those deaths are gang on gang violence, the amount of INNOCENT people killed by guns is statistically irrelevant. You might as well outlaw salt and sugar if you want to prevent deaths.

People are jaded these days- they assume that peace, freedom, and liberty are just facts of life. If you look at the entire history of man it is a history of oppression by emperors, autocrats, and monarchs- You should feel blessed to live in a society where everyday people have the natural born right to arm themselves and organize to ensure that the governent can never take away their rights. A lot of people praise the European model, but as people have said here; the criminals and the government still have weapons. What would happen if the government of France suddenly went rogue- not of its people are armed and they would be at the mercy of their rulers. In America our armed civilians outnumber police and soldiers by enormous factors of magnitude- no corrupt government or police force could ever impose its will on the people. That is the beauty of the 2nd amendment and how it ties into the rest of the constitution and system of checks and balances

See comment above:

Also
Then there is vta's video to be concidered.
In essence, because of the differences in the speed of sound vs. the speed of the bullets from a known cartridge (.223 Remington, in this case), the time lag between the last bullet hitting the pavement and the last audible report of the rifle muzzle can be used to very accurately calculate the range of the shooter.

More importantly, when the audio from the Las Vegas shooting is analyzed, it reveals TWO shooters operating at the same time, not just one shooter. Shooter #1 is operating at 425 – 475 yards, which is consistent with the Mandalay Bay hotel, but shooter #2 is operating at approximately 250 – 270 yards.

I would love to hear you debunk that video.
Peace to ya bud!
Shag