Lacto Bacilli: process and discussion

[jaykush]

as much as i like your info, please don't make my thread complicated. just saying it now no offense. i want this to be for everyone and as simple as possible

general tips like the mineral oil are what i like to see! keep em coming. does it create a film layer on the top to block out air?

either way its not needed to do a successful culture.

 

[ganja din]

as much as i like your info, please don't make my thread complicated. just saying it now no offense. i want this to be for everyone and as simple as possible

No offense taken.

general tips like the mineral oil are what i like to see! keep em coming. does it create a film layer on the top to block out air?

Yup. It allow gasses like Co2 production during fermentation permeate upward but no gasses to permeate downward. Every few day I like to light shake the container the LAB is fermenting in. This releases the air bubbles which get stuck on the sides and helps speed the fermentation process.

One big benefit I find is speed. My fermented LAB is below pH 3.5 within 3-4 days, often less.

either way its not needed to do a successful culture.

Very true. But I find using the oil trick, plus 'anaerobic' siphoning out the solution with a aquarium air-pump hose (the 1/4 inch ones at pet store) makes this so much more simple and much less messy

The tip about heat is an important one. 90F is as low as I personlly would want to go. But like you said, it can be fermented at lower temps even tough LAB are mesophiles...


All the best

 

[jaykush]

there's a few around here who love speed, lol. i bet they will love your method.

i prefer higher temps of course, but i don't live in the tropics. you cant always get what you want, so you have to meet half way with nature.

what do you do your cultures in?

 

[maryjohn]

there's a few around here who love speed, lol. i bet they will love your method.

i prefer higher temps of course, but i don't live in the tropics. you cant always get what you want, so you have to meet half way with nature.

what do you do your cultures in?

anyone who does indoor has an incubator. It's just a matter of finding a spot. Top of my cab above the lights below the scrubber is a perfect spot to ferment. stays in the 90's 18 hours a day.

 

[rrog]

Great info. I'm going to turn up my heat from 70F right now

 

[ganja din]

Here is the Lid made from Kleenex and the outer piece of the Mason Jar.

I would suggest you use "tyvek", it is breathable, but the pore size is <3 micron which means 'contamination', ie. other bacteria and fungi spores can't pass through. You can use it the same way you are using kleenex. You can get it for free from Kinkos, fed ex, most any 'private' mail store (eg. not the post office). And tyvek is wayyyy more durable than kleenex.

I however go a different route I think is a better option. When doing mycology work and I need to be very sterile I wear a tyvek painters suit from Lowes or Home Depot. It's only $10.00. For you lid you could buy a suit and cut it up to size. haha, you'd have enough material to make like 50 lids

GL

 

[rrog]

ganga din. First of all I think your name is very clever. And I'm going to very much enjoy reading your posts. Thanks for sharing with us all.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Yeah, Thanks ganja din thanx for posting..

Makes sense the oil an all..

What use(s) do you use your serum for if I may ask.

 

[gravy]

def. giving this a go, got some 5 weeks old seedligs, that will apreciate a lil extra.

thanks for the info guys.

gravy

 

[JackTheGrower]

The thing I believe lactoB did for my rather stinky brew of "Compost Coffee" was it no longer stinks so bad when it gets on the skin.

Had it on my hands before lactoB and it was a slightly nasty stink that didn't wash away easy.. Added lactoB and it doesn't seem to do that now.
Not the only change to the brew that happened in that time but lactoB is part of that.

Just a comment not stating a fact here.

 

[rrog]

I followed the "Original Recipe" for 1 week. Jacket up the temp to 90 for the second half of that week.

Then added milk.

The entire milkfat / solid mall was created and floated to the top overnight. The ball of fat was elastic. Semi-solid. Weird.

The liquid remaining is light /white, not yellow serum. Wonder why?

 

[jaykush]

The entire milkfat / solid mall was created and floated to the top overnight. The ball of fat was elastic. Semi-solid. Weird.

that is what is supposed to happen. sometimes not as fast sometimes it is. even if i get it seperated in one day i usually let it sit for 2-3 anyways. thats when i see the most life in my scope at least.

The liquid remaining is light /white, not yellow serum. Wonder why?

sometimes its not as yellow as others, cant say why. but if it separated that fast i would let it sit another day or so. then take the milk curd out and go to the next step.

 

[rrog]

Yea, that protein / fat layer came out like plastic.

So the "next step" is wait a few days, then add carb source like molasses? That what you mean?

Thanks a lot for checking in on this.

 

[dubite]

Also doing the process since I have some nasty PM on my babies. Added the milk yesterday.
Would it help if I put some of the mixture on the damaged leaves already in the second day?

 

[ganja din]

there's a few around here who love speed, lol. i bet they will love your method.

Cool. It's actually really neat to watch. Because the fermentation is greatly increased one can watch a cascade of gaseous bubbles striving to reach the surface...it's pretty amazing how fast they move and how many their are. It really reminds me opening up a shaken soda can (but without getting soda everywhere )

FWIW, I use the volume/speed of gaseous bubble flow as a major indicator for when I should test the pH. Once the 'flow', speed and quantity of gaseous bubbles slow to a crawl I check the pH. By that point it is usually below pH 3.5-4.0. When using fermented LAB as long as the pH is <4.0 it's fine to use; but below pH 3.5 is better, and for probiotics AEM below pH 3.3 is saftest.

what do you do your cultures in?

I wrote a quick 9 step description of my method to ferment EM into AEM the other day for someone. But, I use the same method to ferment LAB serum into LAB pure culture, except I omit steps 3 and 4. I figured I will just re-post it here:

1) Ferment in a container with a small (width) mouth. I ferment AEM in gallon jugs.

2) Place a aquarium heater in the AEM water mix. Make sure you don't get a kind with auto-shutoff at a certain temp. I use the cheapest ones from Walmart which are for upto 5 gallon tank. Place the heater in the water, with the same heater I use it will keep ~0.9 gallon of water at ~90F all the time. That is good. The microbes are "mesophelic", that is they prefer temps around 100-135F (there abouts). Thus by heating the water you are proving the LAB and PnSB and yeast, etc, the perfect temp, they will reproduce a lot faster.

3) place a 60-100 watt light bulb (incandescent but CFL is better) about 5-10" from the gallon jug. Leave it on 24/7. This feeds the PnSB and helps the PnSB reproduce, otherwise you will have a lot of LAB and yeast with fewer PnSB. The goal is 4-6k Kelvin at 500-700 lux. (let me check my notes re: lux. But the spectrum is correct)

4) add a bit of hydrolyzed fish, this feeds the PnSB.

5) I like to use this ratio of EM Mother Culture:molasses:water = 1:0.8:16

6) To keep your mix anaerobic as you can pour a layer of mineral oil over the water, so it forms a layer of about 0.5-1 inch thick. This prevent gasses from entering the mix, but allows gasses to exit the mix. This step is important, imo, because I find it lowers the amount of 'yeast' buildup on the solution surface.

7) When 'using' the AEM, buy a cheap air-hose, the kind for a aquarium air-pump, I think it's 1/4". Then siphon out the AEM (after a bit of mixing with the hose) into a container. Try to keep the down-end of the hose right against the bottom of the receiving container. Once the AEM starts to fill the container place the down-end of the hose under the AEM so less oxygen is mixed. (if you have ever siphoned gas from a car you know what to do )

8) usage: I like to use AEM at 1:20 to 1:100. Most people like to use AEM at 1:100, 1:500, 1:1000, etc.

9) If you only want to ferment items (eg. only need LAB) then you can skip step 3 and 4.


HTH

 

[rrog]

In your opinion GD what would you get if you openly bubbled the rice water? open top aerobic environment?

 

[ganja din]

Yeah, Thanks ganja din thanx for posting..

Makes sense the oil an all..

No prob.

What use(s) do you use your serum for if I may ask.

Mostly to ensil wet spent brewers grains for use in my compost operation. That way I can store the WSBG without it spoiling. I have used LAB to ensil coffee grounds too, and straw. "Ensil" and "ensiling" is the same process (basically) as using bokashi inoculum to ferment food stuffs. The final 'stable' fermented product is called "silage". I prefer using the English terms and methods because they are better studied, and described, at least in English. For example, I have never read of anyone suggesting what % moisture content must be attained for the food stuffs to properly ferment without spoiling...45-60% moisture content, with 50-55% being ideal. Too much % moisture content and there is way too much runoff and loss of nutrients, and if too high the LAB and not do their work. Too low of % moisture content and the LAB can't do their work either.

I also use it to remove foul odors, ex. for piles of 'leftover' BSFL (black solider fly larvae) 'castings' (undigested food stuffs), they are very musky.

HTH

 

[ganja din]

In your opinion GD what would you get if you openly bubbled the rice water? open top aerobic environment?

I don't bubble mine, and I don't see a reason to because LAB are "faculatative anaerobes" (I believe), thus increasing the DO (Dissolved Oxygen) content of the rice wash is not suggested. I for one put my glass jar of rice wash outside under healthy tress for at least a few hours. This (probably) allows the rice wash to collect more LAB species than what is found in a house. I don't cover the rice wash jar while it's outside.

If placing the rice wash in a house it's best to put it <2 feet from the floor. This is where the greatest amount of microbes are found.

HTH

 

[rrog]

A few hours right on the floor. OK, thanks

 

[ganja din]

The thing I believe lactoB did for my rather stinky brew of "Compost Coffee" was it no longer stinks so bad when it gets on the skin.

Had it on my hands before lactoB and it was a slightly nasty stink that didn't wash away easy.. Added lactoB and it doesn't seem to do that now.
Not the only change to the brew that happened in that time but lactoB is part of that.

Just a comment not stating a fact here.

That is a commonly ascribed benefit to EM, eg. the LAB are foul odor reducers. It has to do with the the "zymogenic" nature of LAB and it's effects upon soil ("zymogenic soil") and OM (Organic Matter; either raw or not), etc.

HTH