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Japanese hops x Ruderalis

Japanese hops x Ruderalis

  • Seeds won't start developing

    Votes: 6 30.0%
  • Seeds start developing but abort later

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • Seeds devolepe but are infertile

    Votes: 6 30.0%
  • Seeds give rise to a new fertile hybrid and make Thule rich

    Votes: 5 25.0%

  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
I didn't vote...
I would guess nothing happens but have the hope something still does. I was also thinking about doubled haploids which are, in a few cases, obtained by pollinating the species to 'fully inbreed in one go' with another more or less closely related one that does trigger a pollination response without properly fertilising the female gamete (aka wide breeding) or alternatively semi-viable pollen. In most cases, the embryo obtained in such a way has to be rescued.
Regarding Kaly Seeds: From what I read from and about him, he's a cocky but not very bright pseudo-scientist with a temper... Anyway, the things he did might have resulted in the formation of doubled haploid cannabis plants which would explain why, according to people who grew mainly his older varieties, so many plants were cripples. Also, it might be how he obtained the webbing. Not a mutation caused by the process but merely a genotype become phenotype. Webbing is a recessive mutation (a SNP IIRC) which is quite frequent in cannabis/hemp.

I don't know why Kaly used Japanese hops, maybe because the flowers don't look too much like hops nor hemp and hence are a nice marketing tool to imply a successful creation of a inter-genera hybrid? Stupid thing is, Japanese hops not only has less chromosomes than cannabis but also males with one X and two different Y chromosomes. The chance of doubled haploid formation might be better or worse with this species, only trials can tell, but a normal hybrid which is fertile and can readily be crossed back to the cannabis parent is very-very unlikely.
On the other hand, using common hops Humulus lupulus seems like a good approach because both contain 2n=20 and the same XY sex chromosome system.
This has been published for example HERE but also elsewhere (too lazy to look it up).
 

Thule

Dr. Narrowleaf
Veteran
Thanks for the input Ornamental. I thought it was confirmed that the two species have identical numbers of chromosomes so this is news to me and quite discouraging too. Has this information been out prior to 2012?

In this light humulus japonicus looks like the odd man out. Two different Y chromosomes? How does that work?

I'm going to pollinate a few humulus lupulus flowers with cannabis pollen in july although I've tried that in the past already and didn't get any postive results. To my knowledge japonicus is a closer match genetically but the chromosomes make the matter more confusing. There's definitely more to gain in a lupulus cross (perennial rootsystem) but many people have tried that already and failed.

My japonicus flowers by the way don't show any signs of swelling. Then again it is possible that the freezer melted at least once last winter and the pollen wasn't viable to begin with. I might give it another try with fresh pollen just to be sure.
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
Chromosome number of hops was likely known already in the 18th century and the weird sex determination of Japanese hops has AFAIK also been known for a veeeery long time ;) .

I found another modern one from 2006 and one from 2014. You likely find a reference to an earlier work in on of them. Look in that one for another reference and so on and you should, with luck and patience, find the first one. Or follow THIS LINK to a Japanese publication from 1920ish about Japanese hops (English abstract on the last page) ;) .
The XY1Y2 sex system is also known from Silene sp.; in fact, catchfly serve as standard example for this variation of sex determination. Males contain one X but two Y chromosomes. The two Y ones may be different and you could as well call them Y and Z but Z is already used for birds and other species with heterozygous sex chromosomes in females and I think the two are interchangeable, hence the notation Y1 and Y2. Though how exactly it works, I do not know cause I never really read the articles I purchased about this subject.
 

snuicide

Member
Well if its a mostly hops hybrid than we got an option to grow in some countrys where the druglaws just say cannabis :)
 
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