Jamaican Strain Identification?

[Elevator Man]

Really? Man, you must have the patience of a saint! I do a lot of fishing, but even I would find it hard to wait for those. My Malawis are on ten weeks with 2-3 to go, and that's the longest flower I've done so far. But again, I haven't smoked it yet.

I suspect once you've produced your own quality sativa, your priorities change a little..?

 

[pescador]

EM, one of my 2 plants growing at the moment is a Jamaican that looks identical to yours, same leaves, little branching, and with the red/pink tones. Once I get my camera going, I will post them. I am quite stoked that I have found this out! It grows alongside the Malawi 99!

The seeds of the Jamaican were obtained by someone when traveling to Port Antonio. It was just bagseed. I have been told that the sativas can still be found in the blue mountains and St Thomas parish/Kington where tourists have traditionally shied away from (they all go to Montego Bay and Negril). Having said that, I have seen footage of Jamaican plants from the 70s, such as some very nice shots in Peter Tosh's Red X film, as well as on his album cover Legalize it. There are some other shots too on reggae album covers from the 70s. On all of these sources, the leaves look much thinner and lighter in color than the ones we are growing. They look more like the south Indian/Highland Oaxacan/ Green pheno Haze. This may be due to 2 reasons:

1: we have a different, but now common stable strain than what was then grown, and it contains some indica brought by tourists since the 80s, such as Blueberry.
2:these are the same genes, but look different due to the growing conditions (in high sun and dry weather, with lower nutes, leaves may resort to looking like those 70s plant shots
3: We have a traditional Blue Mountain strain, and the bud shots from the abovementioned sources were grown somewhere else on the island.

Also, I know that Columbian herb made its way to Jamaica already in the late 70's (Jah Lion's "Columbia Collie" album.) Commercial Columbian herb may have more CBD in it (i can vouch for that as it is what I used to get in the US).

Also, a relative of mine who used to live in JA (Port Antonio) in the early -mid 80's knew of this guy on an other end of the island that brought over and grew Nepalese weed on a commercial scale. These genes may have also spread a bit throughout the island, who knows.

Also, if you look at ACE Seed's pics of their 1985 Jamaican weed, they do look a bit like what we are growing, especially in terms of leave thickness and pink/red hues. The Caribe also has these pink/burgundy hues from the only pic i have seen.

I am off to Jamaica in a few week, and I will be trekking in the blue mountains (going to the peak) and will be staying with a bobo rasta family. One of the guys is and elder, so with any luck, I will get some info regarding the herb of the past and if it is still around. Hopefully, I will score some of those beans.

I know many breeder in JA are trying to get rid of the short flowering-time phenos. Since they are on a near 12/12 schedule year round, many indica hybrids will not vedge, resulting in much lower yeilds per plant than in the past. This has created many problems for the poor growers there. Many are looking to get back to the longer flowering sativas of the past simply to increase the yeild and decrease the amount of work put in per crop. See Motaco's excellent first posts (page 1 ) on the ultimate sativa thread in the breeder's forum http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=36181

I will show you a pic of my JA plant in a bit! You will see that we have near twins!

 

[Elevator Man]

Pescador - wow - perfect timing, and thanks a lot for the info - this is great!

I've been wondering just what the make-up of this one is - it's clearly not a 'classic' sativa, as the leafblades are too chubby - in many ways it resembles my G13 in leaf-shape wide, with no tapering - the smallest blades are very forward-pointing, and long, relative to the rest. Underneath, the veins are very pronounced - the leaf is almost 3D and ribbed. Also the notches in the leaf blades are very pronounced - like a sawtooth.
It's quite columnar also - really had to pinch this one out to get it branching. However, it has traits that would confuse a 'mostly-indica' theory, although it did flower in about 9 weeks.

And the high is extremely stimulating with no anxiety - like the Flo and MG. The smell is the most unusual - it is like a 'dusty cheese' - like a barn full of Camembert, or a cellar full of dead flowers. It reminds me a tiny bit of White Widow, and made me wonder - that's Brazilian/Indian, right? Maybe it's not actually White Widow, but a 'naturalised' hybrid of similar parents - i.e. a nature-created 'White Widow'? Much better high than WW though, IMO...

I met my friend today who brought the seeds back and gave me the clone - he's returning to Jamaica also for a month in March/April - he's all fired up now to bring back more seeds, and get a few more JAs growing in BG...

 

[Elevator Man]

I just phoned my friend, and he says he usually goes to areas around St. Catherine and Old Harbour - is that near the Blue Mountains? I'd better get Google Earth out! He mentioned a place called 'Wallaballa'? That's what it sounded like - he didn't know how it was spelt. I don't know Jamaican geography much, but I will now!

 

[pescador]

Hi EM, while I have never been there, I know that that parish is not typically on the tourist route. I could only guess how much influence Dutch genes play in that part of the country. I remember reading or hearing somewhere that Spanish Town (in St Catherines I think) is where lambsbread came from. Who knows if this is a bred strain, or just the name for good ganja. There were many Rasta communities around Spanish Town.

I will hopefully post some pics next week of my JA plant.

Ask you friend to ask some elders about obtaining some old type ganja like lambsbread/kingsbread or simply old world thin leaf ganja. Something with a spiritual, motivating high.

Also in the Peter Tosh Red X film, there is an interview of him sometime in the late 70s/early 80s talking about the merits of ganja. He says that it relaxes and motivates the mind. So ganja there may not have been of the racy, uncontrollably fast thinking paranoid type of high typical of some other sativas, and not de-motivating and lazy like many indica hybrids, but much like what you talk about in your current smoke. So even if what you have is not a pure old school sativa, you may have caught something resembling the classic high that gave this herb the reputation in Jamaica of being a spiritual gift...The best thing to do would be to have your friend talk to an honest rasta grower about what weed was like in the 70s, and with confidence in knowing that that person is not trying to sell you something, find out if such weed is still around these days.

 

[pescador]

Sorry, the last sentence should read:

The best thing to do would be to have your friend talk to an honest rasta grower about what weed was like in the 70s, and with confidence in knowing that that person is not trying to sell your friend some of his weed, find out if such weed is still around these days.

 

[Elevator Man]

Pescador - my friend definitely mentioned Spanish Town. He says the place he went to last time was a good three-hour drive from Kingston by taxi, and way off the beaten track - mostly locals. He says there's a few small guest houses but nothing big or touristy. His wife's from Jamaica, so I guess he just fits right in. Which could be handy for me too if I can get enough cash together in the next year or so...

I'm seeing him again this week, and I'll show him this thread and see if I can get him enthused enough to work a little harder than usual on his next vacation...

 

[pescador]

Sounds good!

Also, if I were you, I would skip out on giving the floXJA due to the short flowering characteristics that would not be great for jamaica, and the fact that traditional JA sativa is endangered (and your friend's area may still be a hold out of those rare genes) . I would hold off on that for a bit.

If you really really wanted to give seeds, pure seedsman Malawi Gold would be better. I know it is tempting to share the passion we have in good strains with others...and I am pinching myself hard not to bring over some Nev Haze X Zamal, seedsman Malawai Gold, and Federation's Hawaiian Sativa seeds over to JA on my trip there in a few weeks, but I decided I would only do so on a future visit only if I found out first hand that everything their is polluted with indica, and that there is nothing left to preserve.

Because so many breeders are still trying to search for what is left of the classic JA sativas, it may best to hold off all together on bringing over more genetics to JA, at least until whatever is left of their traditional landrace strains are preserved by breeders both in the west and over there.

A great gift would be a bubble bag hash maker if you feel that would be worth it (say if a guy there spent a lot of time genuinely helping your friend out in this search), but perhaps a cheaper and better option would be some kulu rasta themed rolling papers (all they have there are the thick red rizzlas, and when I brought the kulus over last time, the locals loved it), or a rasta themed bud grinder. That is my plan this time.


Check these pics out, you may find them interesting!

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:q909kebt7q7c

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:6sr928or058a

 

[Elevator Man]

Well it's too late for the cross, as I already did it! The seeds should be done in about three weeks. But I take your point about the contamination of the pool, and agree it would be better to wait a while - as you say, some good MG seeds would probably be much more useful over there. I'm all for sweetening any deals he might make - as I mentioned, I'd love to visit myself sometime, so the quicker we exchange gifts the better, IMO!

Just to get back to the strain for a moment - there's a couple of other leaf traits I wanted to mention. Firstly, new leaves point upwards at a very steep angle to the main stalk, and gradually lower as they get bigger. Also, the number of leaf 'notches' on the edges are far less in number than my other varieties - maybe a third less proportionally? And the veins crossing the leaf surface are actually recessed, giving a 3-dimensional surface to the leaves that the others don't have.

I'm just waiting for the leaves to get a little larger, and then I'll take a new set of pics - this variety is really fascinating me, as it's unlike everything else I have. The leaf-blade widths would suggest indica, but it's not.

 

[pescador]

Hi EM. My plant kind of fits that description, though I am sad to report I am having issues with her. She looks like they might have a mg deficiency, though I have been giving them epsom salt. The cheap PH meter puts the soil at 6.8, though probably need to get a better one. Hope things get better for her. I will say more when I post the pics later on.

Did you see the pics from the album covers? They look very much like the indian sativas posted on this thread, more so than any other pure sativa I know of. So it seems there must be some truth to the story that the indian workers came over with beans. There could also have been some rope hemp thrown into the mix.


Rahan, I have been a lurking fan of your small grows for a while! What is the high like of the indian sativa (or glock23) ? I know you have grown many exotic strains, like ACE's jamaican hybrids. How does this compare?

 

[Elevator Man]

I hope she pulls through OK.

I did see the covers - I have an old print of the Peter Tosh one already - they are totally different to mine. Much more like Rahan's actually.

Oop - bedtime - I'll pick this up tomorrow...

 

[pescador]

Check out my plants here:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=836020#post836020

The JA used to be darker. Also, I did not prune them, so I think the leaves are going to be a bit more numbered in fingers, and thus maybe a bit thinner overall)

 

[Guest]

1: we have a different, but now common stable strain than what was then grown, and it contains some indica brought by tourists since the 80s, such as Blueberry.

Also, if you look at ACE Seed's pics of their 1985 Jamaican weed, they do look a bit like what we are growing, especially in terms of leave thickness and pink/red hues. The Caribe also has these pink/burgundy hues from the only pic i have seen.

Hi, not an authorative answer but that looks just like the Jamaica 85 that's been around in Spain for a while and is used in Ace and Cannabiogen varieties. A lot of them go pink/purple. Dubi is probably your best bet if you want to know where it originally came from. It also often gets called Blue Mountain and the similarities are pretty striking. Does yours take on a strong strawberry aroma? There is also a Jamaica 85 x Blueberry cross that's been doing the rounds here for a while. Don't know if that was an import from Jamaica or something someone did locally. Hope you manage to find some more information while out there

 

[Elevator Man]

My only reservation on this and looking at pescador's pics is that mine seems to have very few notches in the leaves compared to the others - this maybe as they are so small and young, but we can check this in a few days at the latest. I'm very excited about what I may have though, even if I don't know what it is...

 

[Guest]

Here's a pic of Cannabiogen Caribe I have on the go at the moment. Leaves look pretty similar. Topped this one loads. Doesn't have the pure sativa look as the guys at Cannabiogen added some NL5 to reduce flowering time.

Even if you don't have a pure Jamaican but a stabilized hybrid one, could still be of real interest and top quality.

 

[pescador]

Hi Nomadic, yeah I see a resemblance. Mine at the moment has a bit of a skunky smell, but mostly smells like potent old fashion marijuana smoke (never had a plant smell like the smoke aroma itself).


EM, here is where I see the resemblances.











But it remains thicker than the Malawi99 ( I am embaressed to say I am growing an afropips strain, but i only later found out that he was an ass to my idol Dubi)

 

[Guest]

Hi Pescador,

nice plants! I got just in touch with Kaiki (Charlie) from cannabiogen and asked him about the purle pheno with the Jamaica 85. He said it occurs but not with great frequency. Be interesting to know what Dubi says, all the photos of his Jamaicans always seem to be white flowers and huge bushes! Also trying to find out about the Jamaica/Blueberry cross. I have heard that it got introduced over there, though never seen it with my own eyes and remain a bit sceptical. Oh that skunky weed smell, mmmm haven't smelt it for years! Just like the stuff I used to get from rastas in sw2! Don't know how the guys from Cannabiogen managed to get theirs smelling like strawberry, but the aroma is something special!

How's the afropips Malawi going? Been wanting to give it a run for a while. No comment on the afropips/dubi thing, not worth the time

 

[pescador]

Thanks Nomadic! Plants always look nicer in pics for me! I am a bit concerned with the JA with the possible magnesium lockout thing, as i like having my plants perfect.

I too heared about the blueberry introduced to JA, which may explain why what we have looks a bit like a DJ short plant, but who knows (hope you can find out).

One thing to say is that my jamaican does not want to really branch out like other sativas i have grown, very column like. I wonder if Dubi pruned his.

Aside from the drama , the Malawi 99 is doing well, though she is very very lanky (again, more so than the african seeds pure Malawi I grew in the past), but has the same fresh sweet red pepper smell that I had with the AS Malawis). I have been transporting them within my room from the grow box to the window when the sun is out (like today) - which hopefully is not stressing them too much (which is the reason I got ceramic pots to keep the soil steady at least). They are at about 3 feet now (1m), so i will have monsters when they are done. I hope I can train them so that i can keep moving them out of the grow area and into the sun when they are older, as they love the sun. Let me know what you find out. I also can’t wait to see some more pics from EM!

 

[RoNdO]

Here's a pic of Cannabiogen Caribe I have on the go at the moment. Leaves look pretty similar. Topped this one loads. Doesn't have the pure sativa look as the guys at Cannabiogen added some NL5 to reduce flowering time.

Even if you don't have a pure Jamaican but a stabilized hybrid one, could still be of real interest and top quality.

Nice lookin Caribe its actually BlueMountainJamaicanXNL5/Haze BX'd to the BlueMountain momma once. I have some going too I hope it creeps up on ya like the imported Jamaican I've tried. I intend to try this outside this season.

 

[Guest]

Thanks Nomadic! Plants always look nicer in pics for me! I am a bit concerned with the JA with the possible magnesium lockout thing, as i like having my plants perfect.

They look pretty healthy to me!

I too heared about the blueberry introduced to JA, which may explain why what we have looks a bit like a DJ short plant, but who knows (hope you can find out).

A picture is worth a thousand words, picked up a pure Jamaica or Jamaica/BB male from cannabiogen last year and bred it with a Maroc female. The maroc never has shown any colour and have been growing it for ages. They acquired the distinctive strawberry smell of the CBG Jamaica. Just started flowering them and this is how 75% are turning out:





looks like some Blueberry in there! Not sure though how or when it got introduced.

One thing to say is that my jamaican does not want to really branch out like other sativas i have grown, very column like. I wonder if Dubi pruned his.

All the Jamaicans I've seen around here prune wonderfully and become really bushy.

Aside from the drama , the Malawi 99 is doing well, though she is very very lanky (again, more so than the african seeds pure Malawi I grew in the past), but has the same fresh sweet red pepper smell that I had with the AS Malawis). I have been transporting them within my room from the grow box to the window when the sun is out (like today) - which hopefully is not stressing them too much (which is the reason I got ceramic pots to keep the soil steady at least). They are at about 3 feet now (1m), so i will have monsters when they are done. I hope I can train them so that i can keep moving them out of the grow area and into the sun when they are older, as they love the sun. Let me know what you find out. I also can’t wait to see some more pics from EM!

Would prune the Malawis too. Will be interesting to see how you rate it against the African seeds one. Those girls can get huge and sure love lots of sun!