jamaican "lambsbread"

[romanoweed]

Nice to see this Jamaican Line. Yeah, could be just inbreeding depressed, slight softened. Crazy to imagine there are old equatorial lines so short flowering, like Hoabac vietnamese 13 weeks. Smoked it, feels true and pure , of course they might been hybridized at source, but seeing you reporting it as "pure" , having known source, lets me wonder if they actually are.

 

[Marcus67]

My uncle says they flower from September to December in Spain and - without being a breeder- says he selected the better ones, perhaps meaning the ones that would have been more ripe/potent in December vs unfinished ones that could have gone longer. His process is that he pulls the males in August but misses a few female dominant hermies that once found, get the ax as well. Very casually done, similar to hoe it was done in Jamaica I imagine, but it works perfect for him as he ends up with very lightly seeded bud. This has allowed this line to continue. He still ends up with pure females (and perhaps pure males though he doesn’t let them go long enough to see if they produce female flowers) so I imagine this line could be cleared of hermies with some work. Also, seeding ripens the buds faster which helps him, so that should also be factored in as well with the ripening time.

 

[Marcus67]

This may have been discussed: I also now think the source of genetics into Jamaica was similar to what’s in Mauritius and Le Reunion. These islands were on the same emigration routes of the indentured workers from India. Sadhus were reportedly a part of that demographic and also brought the ganja culture. The main port of departure early on was Kolkata in West Bengal. Therefore North East Indian sativas were probably a big part of what made its way to Mauritius, La Reunion, Jamaica etc. The area around Kalimpong had a Sadhu culture and the plants look very similar to old pictures of Lambsbread. Also notice the small seeds and Mango terps being similar to what can be found in Mauritius, Zamal etc. I bet Kerala genetics also came into the mix, but I think Kalimpong sativas look even more like old pictures of Lambsbread. Also the term Kali for weed that was used by Rastas in Jamaica, may not simply be a reference to the indian god but an old strain name?
That may be more fitting. Association with Kali the god of death to a sacred positive plant maybe makes less sense…just a theory for now…
https://www.tltseeds.com/kalimpong/

 

[Marcus67]

Mango:

 

[Roms]

Hello Marcus welcome!

Good to see an old Jamaican preserved, bravo to your uncle! Of course not easy to select some good best ones from the start and improve but should still exist few special ones in the line that need to be selected for some next reproduction. Thanks for sharing the story and full good Vibes to your uncle!

About Jamaican origin yes no doubt with South Hindi but your comparison with Mauricius and La Réunion is sensibly different i think. The Indian Ocean knows cannabis since very longtime and it's very probably the origin of Narrow Leaf Drug Ancestor, Austronesian theory of spread. So i think that Mauricius or La Réunion source is more older and from Madagascar and not really from modern Indians. Evidence of 2200 BP pollen found in Madagascar for example Anyway all related NLDA for sure!

 

[willydread]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Sadhus were brought to Jamaica, Indian immigrants were used to replace / compensate for Afro / Jamaican labor, they came from the lower castes but Sadhus are an outcast category that has never been used to work, not that I know of ...

Great plants Marcus 67!
In my plants I have not found hermie females, but the only two males I have found were, I think it is due to the fact that the males are eliminated at the beginning of flowering, the few males that are saved show hair at the beginning of flowering, deceiving the eye of the breeder.

About Madagascar /Mauritius
Chances are you are both right: in the sense that Indian genetics have been diluted in a local strain that was brought by Indians (and in this part of the world they also brought higher castes)

Obviously this is just my point of view, no absolute truth.
​​​​​​​Bless

 

[Roms]

Sorry for your intersex males but with clean females it can helps for preservation if no more seeds left! (Intersex i mean, not true hermi male disaster!) The work with F2 should be harder then to select clean ones etc but you will have few stable males for sure i think. But with an intersex start project better to select just one only male with multiple stable females, attenuate genetics i mean. Good flo Willy!

Need the end of females for good selection too, contrary late intersex for females lol!

About Madagascar /Mauritius
Chances are you are both right: in the sense that Indian genetics have been diluted in a local strain that was brought by Indians (and in this part of the world they also brought higher castes)

Yes but if there were some good landrace already present in Mada' before the Indian i think they would no really need to bring seeds or think about hybrirdiz? Anyway possible but low ratio...!

 

[willydread]

Sorry for your intersex males but with clean females it can helps for preservation if no more seeds left! (Intersex i mean, not true hermi male disaster!) The work with F2 should be harder then to select clean ones etc but you will have few stable males for sure i think. But with an intersex start project better to select just one only male with multiple stable females, attenuate genetics i mean. Good flo Willy!

Need the end of females for good selection too, contrary late intersex for females lol!



Yes but if there were some good landrace already present in Mada' before the Indian i think they would no really need to bring seeds or think about hybrirdiz? Anyway possible but low ratio...!

About Jamdung :
Surely it is better to have hermie among males than among females (it would be better not to have hermie, but i cannot have everything), I did an open reproduction to keep as many genes as possible, but for my crosses I used female cuttings with the male Rainbow Breeze ... Actually a male has screwed me up a bit with some females, but everything is under control (except I have a few unscheduled crosses)

About Mada', You're right, but you know that Indians and Arabs enjoyed bringing cannabis everywhere ... (Ps it's not a racist post)

 

[willydread]

Jamdung Weed

 

[heirloomganja]

Some very nice purple phenotype

 

[Marcus67]

Very nice information guys! I am still researching this but Bengal (especially) and Bangladesh Manipur seems to have been regions of heavy legally regulated (by the British) cannabis production during the era when Indians left for Jamaica and even before. The English apparently were exporting it but more research needs to be done on my part. All I can say is that some very particular traits can been observed. Mango/Lavender/Carrot flavours and leaf shapes that are very particular are found in East India/Bangladesh/Manipur. Old Jamaican vs Bangladesh for instance

 

[Maggotbrain]

Very nice information guys! I am still researching this but Bengal (especially) and Bangladesh Manipur seems to have been regions of heavy legally regulated (by the British) cannabis production during the era when Indians left for Jamaica and even before. The English apparently were exporting it but more research needs to be done on my part. All I can say is that some very particular traits can been observed. Mango/Lavender/Carrot flavours and leaf shapes that are very particular are found in East India/Bangladesh/Manipur. Old Jamaican vs Bangladesh for instance

Hey Marcus, I did a bunch of research on this. Starting in the early 1700's there was an increasingly large international trade in "hemp seed" for birdseed. The seeds were sourced from the Indian subcontinent from Afghanistan in the west to Burma in the east. After steamships came online in the 1820's the trade increased until its peak in the 1880's and continued until 1938 when the US killed it. I have found advertisements for hemp seed being sold on the docks in Barbados around the 1850's. I still have a bunch of research to do but I think cannabis seeds were probably in Jamaica before 1838 when slavery was ended there. Indian servants undoubtedly knew what ganja was when they arrived and recognized it as the same plan they grew in India but it was probably there already. Every time ganja showed up in the Americas the nearest marginalized minority who happened to use it was blamed for its introduction conveniently ignoring that it came from birdseed sold by American and European companies. They blamed slaves in Brazil, Mexicans in the south, and Indians in Jamaica. It seems very unlikely that a man captured in West Africa could even carry pot seeds across to the Americas on the Middle passage let alone keep them viable while shackled in the hull of a slave ship. Look to birdseed, my friend.

 

[Maggotbrain]

Parisian woman with cat circa 1910

 

[Marcus67]

That’s very interesting, thanks for that! Also thank you to all that gave me advice on my uncle’s strain. I am in Canada and he in Spain, but hopefully I’ll collect his seeds in the near future.

Have a look at what this researcher from the University of Kansas came up with. It fits with other work done by academics. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266083497_High_Points_An_Historical_Geography_of_Cannabis

 

[Marcus67]

From the Paul Mall Gazette Dec 17, 1872. Note they credit the main ganja (not charas/hash) producing areas in India to Bengal (where the indentured servants largely left from) and the foothills of the Himalayas:

 

[Marcus67]

 

[Marcus67]

 

[Marcus67]

I am also reading reports that the British got interested in Indian Hemp because hemp was used to make paper back then and there was a huge demand for it throughout the western world. Most came from Russia and the British wanted a domestic source within their empire. In the 1850s, they discovered that hemp was in India so they began large scale cultivation in lower Bengal. Indian Hemp back then was psychoactive and thc levels were of no concern. Surely this made it’s way to Jamaica by the British for many reasons. It was all around a very valuable crop (paper, rope, intoxicant, birdseed etc). Here we have a report of an 18 year old who consumed too much indian hemp and freaked out in the hospital (mid 1800s):

 

[Marcus67]

 

[Marcus67]

One last one- British mentioning the possibility of hemp in Jamaica in the 1700s (as mentioned- hemp could have been potent - so just another word for marijuana- as low resin strains were mainly bred to not gum up harvesting machines over 100 years later as far as I understand). “ Indian Hemp” was used to describe the drug marijuana up until the 60s in many parts of the world: