Ya thankfully but sadly it represents like the awared "scientist" minority in the Church ^^ ☯
jamaican "lambsbread"
- Thread starter jahgreenlabel
- Start date
Ya thankfully but sadly it represents like the awared "scientist" minority in the Church ^^ ☯
funkyhorse
Well-known member
This might be the situation today, but back in the 17th century they built an empire in South America which was very succesful economically and they were fought and defeated because of that, they had a big population, it wasnt something small. The had branches and connections all over the south american spanish viceroyalties
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misiones_jesuíticas_guaraníes
This link in spanish above has more info than the link in english or french:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit_reduction
Si hola Funkyhorse, i think we can understand Jesuit's success at the time like a natural evolution and equilibrium to protect Native people but it didn't pleased at all Vatican.
(Jesus himself and antic prophets used the psychoactive cannabis as oil medicine)
(Jesus himself and antic prophets used the psychoactive cannabis as oil medicine)
Montuno
...como el Son...
No, Roms, I don't confuse anything...
...As you don't confuse smoking magazine sensacionalist articles to teenagers, with the deep studies (over the land n' over the text) of archaeologists and scientists of the National Museum of Mexican Anthropology and the I.N.A.H. or the statements of the Otomies natives themselves...(How dare they contradict Sensi Seeds Magacine? With what authority?)...
You prefer your legends because you are "open-minded"... Evidences are only to " closed-minded" like me...
And you will tell me how the best archaeologists and ethnoarchaeologists of Mexico can "disrespect the high and deep Mexican culture", as well as the Otomies shamans themselves with their statements, just because they contradict your legendary beliefs...
No doubt it would be a pleasure here to debate about the Olmec culture, although I doubt very much that someone who still calls the Mexica Aztecs, o have already demonstrated ignorance about the Otomies, has actual (or " not completly outdated", je, je) knowledge about Mesoamerica, and I don't want to be accused (me, or the authors of the sources I handle) of "disrespecting" the Olmecs in particular n" the Mexicans in general...
Ayac nomiuh! Timalla a itoloca. Acatl inomiuh acaxelivi! Timala a itoloc.
Salud!
funkyhorse
Well-known member
They might have used cannabis in the old world, but for the big stuff like the ten commandments, I firmly believe that prophets used Hyoscyamus boveanusas an entheogen, which contains Hyoscyamine, a plant growing naturally in the desertic biblical lands
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyoscyamine
Every people had a different psychoactive plant which I call the messanger to connect to other worlds. It is very interesting that the prophets in the old world and the Mexica people were using plants containing substances very similar to hyosciamine to connect with their Gods.
Si but i think that true shaman and medium talented people doesn't need drug to be connected with all dimensions of the Nature.
Datura and cannabis for exemple are very different and can't be equate (that's why i previously talk about the lack of respect for Mexica and shamen gift and their sacred knowledge of the medecine)
No one plant can match the cannabis spiritual properties imho, i talk about the kind of strains like the JLB and Santa Rosa. True liberation and happiness for the mind and the body and almost non-existent toxicity compared to the very unsafe datura!!!
That said and regardless the JLB or other pure clean sativa divas can be dangerous at high dose, just some soft hallucination but for talented medium people it can be strong and disturbing. A friend knew that years ago, Upok, one of the men of its F4. He is medium but he made a bad trip with a high dose of the Lambsbread, nude in the street and taking himself for Jesus lol no joke then he was briefly hospitalized!
Ma doué benniget...
Montuno
...como el Son...
Nobody here has equated datura with cannabis (if you had bothered to read the article, which is only a brief exposition of deep research, you would know the reason for what happened; I understand that it is not as flashy and easy to digest as those of Sensi Seeds or Soft Secrets, but this is only a brief "spoiler" of deep investigation for a true, not expert, but an aficionado of Mesoamerican topics... In fact, for a true expert on Mesoamerica, it is not even necessary to read the article to deduce why it happened, je...)
I think you should seriously consider who is disrespecting whom, because it seems evident to me that you speak and pretend to know Mesoamerican cultures from the typical and topical "old wester aptitude" of knowing better than the Mesoamericans themselves what you are talking about, and that on top of that you criticize in the demads...
I'm going to take the liberty of giving you a great Mesoamerican (pre-Columbian) piece of advice,
full of wisdom and beauty...
It's a tip about the search for truth and wisdom, and how we should appreciate the beauty of this search, even if its results contradict our prejudices... But I am sure that someone with your knowledge on the subject ("not totally outdated", like the ones I have
that I handle, either from archaeologists-anthropologists-historians, or from the Mesoamerican natives themselves), will not fail to celebrate, for sure....:
Xicmocuitlahui in tlilli, in tlapalli, in amoxtli, in tlahcuilolli, intolc, innahuac ximocalaqui in yolinzmatqui, in tlamatini.
Salud !
I think you should seriously consider who is disrespecting whom, because it seems evident to me that you speak and pretend to know Mesoamerican cultures from the typical and topical "old wester aptitude" of knowing better than the Mesoamericans themselves what you are talking about, and that on top of that you criticize in the demads...
I'm going to take the liberty of giving you a great Mesoamerican (pre-Columbian) piece of advice,
full of wisdom and beauty...
It's a tip about the search for truth and wisdom, and how we should appreciate the beauty of this search, even if its results contradict our prejudices... But I am sure that someone with your knowledge on the subject ("not totally outdated", like the ones I have
that I handle, either from archaeologists-anthropologists-historians, or from the Mesoamerican natives themselves), will not fail to celebrate, for sure....:
Xicmocuitlahui in tlilli, in tlapalli, in amoxtli, in tlahcuilolli, intolc, innahuac ximocalaqui in yolinzmatqui, in tlamatini.
Salud !
Deiz mat Montuno, please can you edit and translate precisely your nahuatl sentences in english (english isn't my native language btw and iam not really french too). (Or translate it into spanish if you prefer). Nictlazohcāmati !!
By naming the datura "santa rosa" in the title the study doesn't start true imho like discredit itself, and you resume it as"cannabis replaced datura" lol sorry it's not fully serious. Big respect for the Mexica anthropology and ethnobotany about the datura but the cannabis doesn't replace it in the ages, both are alive there for thousands years and their properties and usage are simply and totally different nah?
By hoping now that you realize that your spanish culture disturb a bit your native origin Mexica right? And sorry but believing that Cortès or Colombo imported cannabis in America is sincery sad for a mesoamerican origin you have. And for their hemp initial import it's to cry with laughter for my syncretic little knowledge and ancestors.
By naming the datura "santa rosa" in the title the study doesn't start true imho like discredit itself, and you resume it as"cannabis replaced datura" lol sorry it's not fully serious. Big respect for the Mexica anthropology and ethnobotany about the datura but the cannabis doesn't replace it in the ages, both are alive there for thousands years and their properties and usage are simply and totally different nah?
By hoping now that you realize that your spanish culture disturb a bit your native origin Mexica right? And sorry but believing that Cortès or Colombo imported cannabis in America is sincery sad for a mesoamerican origin you have. And for their hemp initial import it's to cry with laughter for my syncretic little knowledge and ancestors.
Montuno
...como el Son...
It doesn't bother me that you have only a little knowledge on the subject: that was obvious from the start and I continue to dialogue with you...'till now.
But it does bother me that you return, again, to misrepresent the evidence that I expose you (again, because you have not bothered to really read the text): Nobody says that cannabis has botanically or cultural,displaced the datura in Mesoamerica, but that cannabis was gradually replacing the datura in the shamanic use of that particular ceremony (which has happened elsewhere in Iberoamerica, too) for reasons derived from both the type of ceremony (and that the Otomies "expected" from it), as well as cultural and religious syncretism.
N' I summarize briefly because you prove not to read over and over again.
The original use was with datura, later with the Spanish, cannabis was added. Over time, Cannabis was gaining ground on the datura for the reasons stated.
Currently you can find the ceremony with only cannabis, with both, or with only datura.
Likewise, I have already explained why Cortes is considered the first exporter of cannabis to America (the Viking possibility remains open, which would be of ridiculous impact with the volume and size of the plantations in Iberoamerica), and because everything seems to indicate that this cannabis (at least in equatorial and tropical zones) was of the sativa type and very psychoactive (at least, for that time...).
But perhaps it is not true, and as it seems to indicate the articles that you handle, all God has been able to taken psychoactive cannabis to America (hyperboreans, Tartessians, Phoenicians, Polynesians, and that I know, Chinese and extraterrestrials if it is necessary...) except form the Portuguese and Spanish, although all the evidence says otherwise (something similar has already been pointed out by hempy...
And no, my Spanish side is not dominating my Mexica side (why do you think I am Mexica or event Mexican ?) because I simply don't have a Mexica side, and Nahualt is not a language spoken in my country either. Nor do you pretend to cover up my evidence by accusing me of a childish nationalist discourse, please (it is enough to misrepresent, or to accuse of disrespect): if it were so, I would grab one of the holliwood historicalfantasticfolclorikal adventure movie theories exposed in the articles you link: that not the Vikings, not even Spain as a whole, but that the ancestors of my ancestors from the Kingdom of Tartessos (from whose extreme north I am a native, and whose symbol, the 8-Pointed Tartessian Star, looks like my avatar) would have arrived in America more than 10. 000 years ago...
By the way, Mesoamericans have plenty of reasons for cultural pride not to need to claim falsehoods.
The one that you put a cultural-racial-national pride, to the pure Truth, says a lot about your opinions and how you defend them.
Best wisesh to all, n' good bye.
Posdata:
If you are a German speaker and you are really interested in the pre-Hispanic Mesoamerican subject, I advise you to leave those sources you quote, and read in your own language an expert like the German Dr. Nicolai Grube, to whom all Mesoamerica is grateful for the depth of his studies and his love for its culture:
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Grube
Postdata 2:
it is a pity that current automatic translators can only translate isolated words of nahualt, and never complete sentences with meaning, right?
I can translate the last one into my native Spanish, n' later to English with an autotraslator, if you wish, but you still need to really know Mesoamerican prehispanic culture and know what is "hidden" behind the image of "the red and black ink." The advice said: "Take care of the red and black ink, of the books, of the paintings; stand next to and next to the one who is prudent, the one who is wise."
But it does bother me that you return, again, to misrepresent the evidence that I expose you (again, because you have not bothered to really read the text): Nobody says that cannabis has botanically or cultural,displaced the datura in Mesoamerica, but that cannabis was gradually replacing the datura in the shamanic use of that particular ceremony (which has happened elsewhere in Iberoamerica, too) for reasons derived from both the type of ceremony (and that the Otomies "expected" from it), as well as cultural and religious syncretism.
N' I summarize briefly because you prove not to read over and over again.
The original use was with datura, later with the Spanish, cannabis was added. Over time, Cannabis was gaining ground on the datura for the reasons stated.
Currently you can find the ceremony with only cannabis, with both, or with only datura.
Likewise, I have already explained why Cortes is considered the first exporter of cannabis to America (the Viking possibility remains open, which would be of ridiculous impact with the volume and size of the plantations in Iberoamerica), and because everything seems to indicate that this cannabis (at least in equatorial and tropical zones) was of the sativa type and very psychoactive (at least, for that time...).
But perhaps it is not true, and as it seems to indicate the articles that you handle, all God has been able to taken psychoactive cannabis to America (hyperboreans, Tartessians, Phoenicians, Polynesians, and that I know, Chinese and extraterrestrials if it is necessary...) except form the Portuguese and Spanish, although all the evidence says otherwise (something similar has already been pointed out by hempy...
And no, my Spanish side is not dominating my Mexica side (why do you think I am Mexica or event Mexican ?) because I simply don't have a Mexica side, and Nahualt is not a language spoken in my country either. Nor do you pretend to cover up my evidence by accusing me of a childish nationalist discourse, please (it is enough to misrepresent, or to accuse of disrespect): if it were so, I would grab one of the holliwood historicalfantasticfolclorikal adventure movie theories exposed in the articles you link: that not the Vikings, not even Spain as a whole, but that the ancestors of my ancestors from the Kingdom of Tartessos (from whose extreme north I am a native, and whose symbol, the 8-Pointed Tartessian Star, looks like my avatar) would have arrived in America more than 10. 000 years ago...
By the way, Mesoamericans have plenty of reasons for cultural pride not to need to claim falsehoods.
The one that you put a cultural-racial-national pride, to the pure Truth, says a lot about your opinions and how you defend them.
Best wisesh to all, n' good bye.
Posdata:
If you are a German speaker and you are really interested in the pre-Hispanic Mesoamerican subject, I advise you to leave those sources you quote, and read in your own language an expert like the German Dr. Nicolai Grube, to whom all Mesoamerica is grateful for the depth of his studies and his love for its culture:
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Grube
Postdata 2:
it is a pity that current automatic translators can only translate isolated words of nahualt, and never complete sentences with meaning, right?
I can translate the last one into my native Spanish, n' later to English with an autotraslator, if you wish, but you still need to really know Mesoamerican prehispanic culture and know what is "hidden" behind the image of "the red and black ink." The advice said: "Take care of the red and black ink, of the books, of the paintings; stand next to and next to the one who is prudent, the one who is wise."
Laisse tomber forget it and take it easy, our level of consciousness is probably too distant to debat, yours seems to be in progress btw according your nervous last post, bon courage à toi and do no forget to get out of your rays of information sources, open mind to the wisdom via the northern peoples for exemple ^^ my mix in the ages is Irish, Vikings and Armorican, you see i'm not the kind to receive some lessons of respect or accusatory inversion be careful nah pop no style i strictly roots ya now
Btw 2015/16 in Terre-Neuve, L'Anse aux Meadows, some hemp pollen founded and dated about 1000 years old by a team of archeologists regarding Vikings moves. Anyway even if the Vikings and all the older North Europe people use both hemp and cannabis since the copper age the archeologists around the discovery think that Amerindians also use it before and for a long time so no conclusions for now (hemp coming by the Bering Strait during the Ice Age)... research continues...
https://www.livescience.com/54438-ph...-outposts.html
Well well let's talk and come back about the thread subject, the kind of Lambsbread that nothing to do with datura, Spanish or Vikings pfffium what a flood you are Montuno, calm down man, JLB or Santa Rosa are your kind of medecine no doubt, peace
Btw 2015/16 in Terre-Neuve, L'Anse aux Meadows, some hemp pollen founded and dated about 1000 years old by a team of archeologists regarding Vikings moves. Anyway even if the Vikings and all the older North Europe people use both hemp and cannabis since the copper age the archeologists around the discovery think that Amerindians also use it before and for a long time so no conclusions for now (hemp coming by the Bering Strait during the Ice Age)... research continues...
https://www.livescience.com/54438-ph...-outposts.html
Well well let's talk and come back about the thread subject, the kind of Lambsbread that nothing to do with datura, Spanish or Vikings pfffium what a flood you are Montuno, calm down man, JLB or Santa Rosa are your kind of medecine no doubt, peace
Montuno
...como el Son...
mexcurandero420 : De que eran? De cannabis solo, o de cannabis, datura y belladona junt@s?
Combined together Cannabis indica and Datura leaves against asthma.
Montuno
...como el Son...
Curious that someone who in one message begs you to translate from nahualt, thanks you the next message by talking to you with commands as if you were a dog... Together with the above, you are painting a good self-portrait...
The "btw" and the Vikings thing is again left out: I leave the Viking option open in my messages, as anyone who takes the trouble to read it can read. Of course, again it is all cotradictions: the Vikings could have used and introduced psychoactive cannabis in America,
(possible medical use, as mentioned in your article), but I "confuse textile hemp with psychoactive cannabis" when I state again that Portuguese and Spaniards could also have used it. But surely I am wrong again: it is certainly more possible the introduction of cannabis in America from Greenland, than that the Spanish and Portuguese did it from Seville, Madeira, Canary Islands, Cape Verde, Equatorial Guinea, Congo, Angola, South Africa, Mozambique, South India or Southeast Asia under their possession.
But at least your last article has another level: it is not one of those other epic cannabis fantasy pamphlets with Homo erectus getting fiber and oil out of cannabis...
(And it's hilarious, that after linking that, you say that the best Mexican archaeologists and even native shamans, make you laugh and accuse them of disrespecting "a native culture" that you hardly knew even by their names...)
And by the way, why did the Vikings import cannabis or hemp seeds if they did, and then massively the Spanish and Portuguese, if acording to you, cannabis or hemp had entered before even through the Bering Strait, and countless native peoples smoked it? Pre-Columbian America should be full of cannabis, and also the pollen record? But as your article also recognizes, there is only small evidence of isolated traces in some North American settlement, which cannot be dated exactly...
And by the way, the "Santa Rosa" that you seem to know so well (how did you seem to know "the Aztecs", heh, heh...) where do you get it? In some coffeshop in Amsterdam?
Anyway, I'll leave it here too as your; I've taught you enough already (because even if you haven't read anything else, at least now you can use words like "mexica" or "mesoamerican", heh) to have to put up with being spoken to with canine commands...
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
The "btw" and the Vikings thing is again left out: I leave the Viking option open in my messages, as anyone who takes the trouble to read it can read. Of course, again it is all cotradictions: the Vikings could have used and introduced psychoactive cannabis in America,
(possible medical use, as mentioned in your article), but I "confuse textile hemp with psychoactive cannabis" when I state again that Portuguese and Spaniards could also have used it. But surely I am wrong again: it is certainly more possible the introduction of cannabis in America from Greenland, than that the Spanish and Portuguese did it from Seville, Madeira, Canary Islands, Cape Verde, Equatorial Guinea, Congo, Angola, South Africa, Mozambique, South India or Southeast Asia under their possession.
But at least your last article has another level: it is not one of those other epic cannabis fantasy pamphlets with Homo erectus getting fiber and oil out of cannabis...
(And it's hilarious, that after linking that, you say that the best Mexican archaeologists and even native shamans, make you laugh and accuse them of disrespecting "a native culture" that you hardly knew even by their names...)
And by the way, why did the Vikings import cannabis or hemp seeds if they did, and then massively the Spanish and Portuguese, if acording to you, cannabis or hemp had entered before even through the Bering Strait, and countless native peoples smoked it? Pre-Columbian America should be full of cannabis, and also the pollen record? But as your article also recognizes, there is only small evidence of isolated traces in some North American settlement, which cannot be dated exactly...
And by the way, the "Santa Rosa" that you seem to know so well (how did you seem to know "the Aztecs", heh, heh...) where do you get it? In some coffeshop in Amsterdam?
Anyway, I'll leave it here too as your; I've taught you enough already (because even if you haven't read anything else, at least now you can use words like "mexica" or "mesoamerican", heh) to have to put up with being spoken to with canine commands...
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Montuno
...como el Son...
...Eso, dale las ultimas pinceladas al autorretrato, je...
...Pues no parece que la "Santa Rosa" ( o la jamiquina) despierten en todos esos sentimientos místicos y tan , tan elevados, verdad?... Debe ser que no se ha adaptado bien a los indoors de los coffe shops, je, je, je...
Si es que ya lo dice el refrán: "Quien con niños se duerme, meado se despierta... "
...Pues no parece que la "Santa Rosa" ( o la jamiquina) despierten en todos esos sentimientos místicos y tan , tan elevados, verdad?... Debe ser que no se ha adaptado bien a los indoors de los coffe shops, je, je, je...
Si es que ya lo dice el refrán: "Quien con niños se duerme, meado se despierta... "
