Jamaican, dub stylee

[ngakpa]

That '85 might be fine smoke but is not an original type Lambsbread going by pictures I have seen. Plenty of indica in it. I have been on the lookout for LB with pepper taste to it, if anyone knows of such if you can share where it is. I read in High Times of brown Jamaican with pepper taste around '74 which would add up to my experience with unknown strain. Electric is an understatement of that stuff. Electrocuted would be more accurate, but in a good way, hehe.

I had outer space pot in '74 and think it could have been Jamaican, was pepper and wood taste, all brown in color. It might have been anything like Mexican or Colombian but anyways.

peppery aromas are a standard trait of real ganja ime

I agree about the morphology of the Blue Mountain being suspect

 

[Rembetis]

not sure what you mean by "put that out", sorry

explanation is pretty clear in the description, no?

it's a handful of packs, so hopefully not "storm in a teacup" drama going to start

No drama intended at all. I didnt see a name associated with who made the seeds. I like to know lineage on seeds I buy if at all possible. I see reference back to the original but nothing about the F4's or F3's until I saw the listing on H D.

I have been following your extinction thread and if we are to have any hope of preserving any strains it will require people to develop their own lines which can later be crossed back to each other. Otherwise we go further into the bottleneck. So while many people wont care where those seeds came from it is something that matters to me.

 

[mexcurandero420]

Jamaican Blue Mountain from Four Seasons in 2009

 

[Rembetis]

Nice plant!

 

[squatty]

Beautiful.

 

[Rembetis]

Time for an update. Been awhile since the last one. My camera sucks and the plants are too big to move around so I will probably hold off on too many more photos until I pull them out for harvest. I do have a few to add today.



We are at Day 67 so past the mid point. Everything is going well. I did have a couple problems which I think are taken care of. I will post more on that later today.

 

[arbac]

Blue mountains influence

 

[Rembetis]

Arbac, despite having selected more towards the Lambsbread I am getting at least half the plants showing the Blue Mountain influence.

So just to update the grow, I am almost at the end of the twelfth week.
I had one of the LB looking plants showing lots of amber and cloudy trichs at 9 weeks so I took her. I had a PH problem with my well water and 2 plants did not like that so I took them at 10 weeks. I harvested another one recently at 11 weeks. She was one of the LB looking plants.

It will be interesting to see if there is much difference between the different harvest times. Strong flowering is still occurring so I am preparing to go the full 18 weeks with the rest.

I have never mentioned my set up so now might be a good time to explain what I have going on.

So my standard set up for quite awhile has been a shorty 4x4 tent and I was running a 600 watt Hortilux EYE Blue MH along with CHPS which was switched out for flowering. These were in an air cooled Blockbuster hood. Due to the reduced height I was able to keep the intensity up by keeping the hood close to the tops so I have had decent results with only 37.5 watts per square ft. even with Landrace Sativas.

I have plans to build a proper Sativa room at some point but that is on hold for now. I decided to go ahead with some of the changes and see what happens.

So I am now in a tall tent. I also added a second hood with an EYE Blue 600w MH for 75 watts per sq. ft. I am definitely pushing it in a 4x4 tent but I don think that the Double Jams are having any problems so far.

The second hood is air cooled in case I have heat problems but for this run I have removed the glass. The reason for that is because the Hortilux guys told me that the glass blocks the UV. I am trying to replicate a high mountain environment as best I can in an effort to bring out the best in the Jamaican genetics so in addition to high UV amounts I am also keeping it much cooler in the room. Being winter I can open the windows and keep the temps closer to 70f in the day and 63f at night. I am running the second light from 10:30am to 4:30pm mimicking the UV cycle in Jamaica.

This is all an experiment to satisfy my curiosity to see if it is possible to produce a top Sativa indoors. The little 3 week plant was harvested before I started using the second light so I have something to compare against for now. The ultimate test will be to see how it compares with my experiences in the 80's in Jamaica.

Cool runnings, until such time

11 week bud


Its full of seed from the more lambsbread leaning male I had

 

[OnlyPureSativas]

What therevverend said is correct. I have Afghani Landraces that are narrow leaf as well as many middle eastern strains. In the old days everything "Indica" was expected to be a fat leaved strain. So leaf shape alone doesnt tell you what the effect may be.

In this particular case if you read what I posted early on I am dealing with what I believe to have been contamination from one of the Skunk cross lines also having the name Blue Mountain rather than the true Blue Mountain collected by Siete. My efforts are aimed at cleaning the line and trying to bring out the true Jamaican. I have great memories from many trips there so I am relying on that as well as old photos to help me sort thru the phenos. Right now leaf shape and plant structure are all I have to go on. Once I can smoke test individual plants I will know if I am on the right track.

These days what passes for Sativa is actually hybrid. Fat leaved seedlings that eventually turn narrow are not the old Tropical landraces that I am after. I am old and I am old school. If it is a Sativa I expect it to be pure narrow leaf from day 1 and that is why I bought this line. Not interested in hybrid or hybrid effects. There are millions of hyrids out there if I want that. In fact I have a freezer full of Deep Chunk crosses if I need a top hybrid. If I cant find remnants of the old line in one of these plants the seeds will end up in the bird feeder and I will move on. I have plenty of Punto Rojo and Mangobiche seeds to sort thru as well as some Thai and plenty of African Landraces that need to get popped.

So pure sativas are supposed to have pencil thin leaves from a young age?

Look at this supposedly pure sativa kerala chellatuki as a baby and mature

 

[Rembetis]

I never saw Kerala in the 70's so I cant say. People that have experience with that strain in the old days will have to judge. All I can tell you is that what I saw and grew a long time ago was narrow. That was before Kush's or Afghanis came over or at least were wide spread beyond the guys in the Triangle. Let me ask you this about your Kerala, how is the bud structure, old timey or thick like modern buds? Because often times selection equals a shot of BLD to beef up the buds. That to me is another indicator of todays Sativas not being the same as the old ones.

I have noticed that the definition of what is considered to be "Sativa" by younger people is different from what us old timers know as Sativa. You see it in discussions right here on I C . My thread here on the Double Jam as well as the other Jamaican threads is a good example. Look at the photos of the old Jamaican I took in 9 mile long ago. Look at some of the answers here and in the other Double Jam threads. People saying that a Jamaican starts out wide is wrong or dont want to accept what I and others witnessed in old Jamaica.

We are all a product of our times so if people in your time grow up thinking Sativas can have fat leaves or hybrid look then that is what you are going to go with. My Jamaican friends think the same as some because in their lifetime the old Jamaican was extinct. They have never seen any type of narrow leaf at all. They told me this yet they tell me that Sativa (with wide leaves ) grows all over the island.

The old guys around here like me witnessed the changes as they occurred and the coming of the hybrids and when digging thru threads on here you will often times see where a supposed pure line was in fact a hybrid as this Double Jam is. I heard a Jamaican grower say something about the old versus new genetics. He said that the old genetics were too strong and eventually everything goes back to the old. His plants were very Sativa, old Jamaican looking but we know from what he said that they were hybrids. So they most likely have fat leaves to start and that may very well be the case with your Karala example. No doubt hybrids have been around in that region long before any of it showed up in the west.

All I can do is tell what I saw in the old days. You younger guys will have to decide going forward what is what

 

[Rembetis]

Let me throw out another more recent example of how things are further evolving. Due to our state having gone medical several FB groups popped up which I joined just to see what was going on.

The majority of people on these groups are newbies and the overwhelming genetics of choice are Auto's. They speak of "photo's" as if they require some sort of voodoo for mere mortals to be able to grow.

I dont have experience with those but the photos they post do look like some type of hybrid to me but the narrow-ish leaves have these people automatically proclaiming any narrow leaf plant posted as being an auto. How long before that idea spreads?

 

[OnlyPureSativas]

I never saw Kerala in the 70's so I cant say. People that have experience with that strain in the old days will have to judge. All I can tell you is that what I saw and grew a long time ago was narrow. That was before Kush's or Afghanis came over or at least were wide spread beyond the guys in the Triangle. Let me ask you this about your Kerala, how is the bud structure, old timey or thick like modern buds? Because often times selection equals a shot of BLD to beef up the buds. That to me is another indicator of todays Sativas not being the same as the old ones.

I have noticed that the definition of what is considered to be "Sativa" by younger people is different from what us old timers know as Sativa. You see it in discussions right here on I C . My thread here on the Double Jam as well as the other Jamaican threads is a good example. Look at the photos of the old Jamaican I took in 9 mile long ago. Look at some of the answers here and in the other Double Jam threads. People saying that a Jamaican starts out wide is wrong or dont want to accept what I and others witnessed in old Jamaica.

We are all a product of our times so if people in your time grow up thinking Sativas can have fat leaves or hybrid look then that is what you are going to go with. My Jamaican friends think the same as some because in their lifetime the old Jamaican was extinct. They have never seen any type of narrow leaf at all. They told me this yet they tell me that Sativa (with wide leaves ) grows all over the island.

The old guys around here like me witnessed the changes as they occurred and the coming of the hybrids and when digging thru threads on here you will often times see where a supposed pure line was in fact a hybrid as this Double Jam is. I heard a Jamaican grower say something about the old versus new genetics. He said that the old genetics were too strong and eventually everything goes back to the old. His plants were very Sativa, old Jamaican looking but we know from what he said that they were hybrids. So they most likely have fat leaves to start and that may very well be the case with your Karala example. No doubt hybrids have been around in that region long before any of it showed up in the west.

All I can do is tell what I saw in the old days. You younger guys will have to decide going forward what is what

Wow that's really heavy, its like there are no pure sativas left on earth, all the supposedly pure sativa saplings I have seen online are like that kerala. I suspected pure sativas should have very thin leafed saplings.
So how wide were the leaves of the pure sativa saplings you have seen long ago, in comparison to those kerala, or the old timer haze saplings in this post.

Those arent my plants those are chilliwilii's. Im yet to grow, waiting to move to WA, hopefully soon,I have my eyes on burma mong hsat from indian landrace exchange, i suspect it's as pure as it gets these days. And the lesotho and laos dak cheung from landrace team, though the mong hsat is more likely to be pure. The mong hsat has very thin leaves, gets colored unlike the bright green laos/thai of today, grow tall, takes as long as the real deal (min. 20 weeks), has a supposedly psychedelic energetic high

I have smoked mango biche grown in the us, lesotho imported from Lesotho, swazi imported from swaziland, hashes imported from africa and the Philippines and thai imported from thai,
They were all very clear headed, especially the Lesotho. The mango, swazi and hashes were very bland and boring, the lesotho and thai were very fun giggly made me feel like a kid again, happy/euphoric soaring, lesotho was mellow but not as mellow as the thai, the thai had an effect that was unique very much like a shroomy feeling, both thai and lesotho were trippy in their own ways, both very mystical, deep, profound, no hyrbid can mimick, at all, hybrids just have this depressing, intoxicating, dulling rather anti psychedelic effect, not fun. These sativas gave me the true psychedelic/mystical experience, they made shrooms as worthless as hyrbids, all other cannabis just felt like a different plant altogether, just an annoying/intoxicating experience. These sativas in my opinion didnt have intoxicating potential like shrooms. Or hybrids for that matter. Really the most amazing plants on earth. I cant use any cannabis unless its a pure sativa, or at least likely to be pure like Lesotho and thai (even though all of thailands farms have supposedly used indica at some point since the 70s to shorten flowering time).

Here is a picture of some old timers haze saplings and mong hsat in flower

 

[OnlyPureSativas]

Also, the thai and lesotho made me believe hippies in the 60s and 70s were hippies because sativas like these literally turn you into those hippies, it just had that effect, you have to try it to understand. I mean you became a hippy in the classical sense, simply put. Nothing could kill your buzz per say, you just became rooted in true hippy, its awesome. not like hybrids, that turn you into a fake hippy if anything at all. How many young fake hippies are out there today haahaha

 

[Red October]

Let me throw out another more recent example of how things are further evolving. Due to our state having gone medical several FB groups popped up which I joined just to see what was going on.

The majority of people on these groups are newbies and the overwhelming genetics of choice are Auto's. They speak of "photo's" as if they require some sort of voodoo for mere mortals to be able to grow.

I dont have experience with those but the photos they post do look like some type of hybrid to me but the narrow-ish leaves have these people automatically proclaiming any narrow leaf plant posted as being an auto. How long before that idea spreads?

the same thing has happened here in South Africa, the other issue we have is there are alot of seed sellers also on the pages and they seem to be the main fueling point to keep suggesting and pushing how great the autos are and their extreme THC production, which doesn't mean much.

This is only going to get worse as the auto FEM seeds market is the one with the highest returns for the manufacturers and sellers, you can't clone them and the people growing them probably aren't going to bother germinating some regular seeds along side to make more. I do not see a good future ahead especially because these newer and younger growers will never learn to appreciate sativa affects and when they do try them it'll probably scare them, so sativas will only be appreciated by fewer and fewer people as the years go on.

 

[Rembetis]

O P S,
you know what good Sativas can do so the advice I would give you is to concentrate on those aspects. Even if it isnt pure, breed for the known traits that made a particular strain a great strain. To answer your question about leaf width, go back and look at the photo from 9 mile earlier in this thread. Look at how high it is and look at the lower leaves. Very skinny from the beginning. This Double Jam I have going didnt get like that until they were very tall. Even the more Lambsbread leaning seedlings took awhile to get to where they look like that old photo. Like I said, I cant answer on Keralas or Haze. Where I grew up we didnt get those strains. We had Thais, Thai Stick, Columbians, Mexicans, Panama Red, Acapulco Gold, Durban on occasion, Jamaican and some decent Hash from all over. I grew bag seed out from the good bags and they were all narrow. This was from 1974 onward.

As far as the Indian and Asian strains Ngakpa was a good source of info. Hopefully in time he will rejoin the forum. Guys on here like Arbac and Funkyhorse can tell you about the situations down south. They were talking earlier in this thread about the "crippy" and lack of pure Landraces to be found. I'd like to think that pure lines are still out there somewhere but deep down I think they are gone. I am still chasing the old lines in Jamaica with the help of my friends so time will tell on that.

The other issue is that the people like my friends in Jamaica are only interested in growing Kush. Its the same everywhere. How can I get them to even try an old Sativa when it doesnt exist? I offered seeds and they turned me down. They wont spend time on an unknown.

Red October, the other trend bothering me is so many young people getting away from bud and chasing stronger concentrates and pushing for higher THC. Watching some of the threads on here is alarming to me. I really have the feeling that modern chemistry is going to turn this into something dangerous eventually

 

[Red October]

O P S, you know what good Sativas can do so the advice I would give you is to concentrate on those aspects. Even if it isnt pure, breed for the known traits that made a particular strain a great strain.

As far as the Indian and Asian strains Ngakpa was a good source of info. Hopefully in time he will rejoin the forum. Guys on here like Arbac and Funkyhorse can tell you about the situations down south. They were talking earlier in this thread about the "crippy" and lack of pure Landraces to be found. I'd like to think that pure lines are still out there somewhere but deep down I think they are gone. I am still chasing the old lines in Jamaica with the help of my friends so time will tell on that.

The other issue is that the people like my friends in Jamaica are only interested in growing Kush. Its the same everywhere. How can I get them to even try an old Sativa when it doesnt exist? I offered seeds and they turned me down. They wont spend time on an unknown.

Red October, the other trend bothering me is so many young people getting away from bud and chasing stronger concentrates and pushing for higher THC. At some point modern chemistry will turn this plant into a dangerous drug and then we go right back into prohibition.

man we have the same thing here, kush and autos. That Facebook group did help me start growing again at least, but it was because I realized this is why the quality of the bud I was buying was just getting worse and worse, bag appeal and smell are better than ever but non of this shit gets me high and I realized it wasn't going to get any better. Even the guys growing out fields in the eastern cape and KwaZulu-Natal post pics of their plants and it's a similar situation that they have short bushy plants, unfortunately it's a common south African misunderstanding that these varieties from over seas are better than what we already have here and from a production point of view they definitely are, but not all hope is lost and we have alot of old timers still proud of their sativa plants it seems, I'm going to try and track down something hopefully still worthwhile as it hasn't been that long since we started entering the abyss

 

[OnlyPureSativas]

I hope you guys find those pure sativas. Jamaica sounds like it's been completely hybridized. I hope I bet lesotho and sa have pure sativas around.

Good luck guys, who knows, you may save the future of sativas!

 

[Rembetis]

My traveling days are about done due to health. The younger guys need to carry this forward. There are several here that are trying to keep it going.

I hate the down vibes. Time to get positive again. Anybody got something good going on?

I didnt get any comments on my set up. Any thoughts, anyone tried supplementing UV with Tropicals? Am I full of shit with my thoughts or are you guys waiting for the smoke report to see if I lose my mind ?

 

[Red October]

I hope you guys find those pure sativas. Jamaica sounds like it's been completely hybridized. I hope I bet lesotho and sa have pure sativas around.

Good luck guys, who knows, you may save the future of sativas!

the dealer that sold from a shop a couple of blocks away still to this day sold me the best weed I'd ever smoked and it was Lesotho. I used to buy it for R2 a finger poke from him, it would change from batch to batch, but for many years I used ride to his shop on my bicycle and buy some pokes so me and my friends could smoke. Many 24 hours playstation 1 and sega Saturn night session were torn through smoking this stuff, because we had to rent the consoles and the games and only had them for 24 hours

 

[Red October]

My traveling days are about done due to health. The younger guys need to carry this forward. There are several here that are trying to keep it going.

I hate the down vibes. Time to get positive again. Anybody got something good going on?

I didnt get any comments on my set up. Any thoughts, anyone tried supplementing UV with Tropicals? Am I full of shit with my thoughts or are you guys waiting for the smoke report to see if I lose my mind ?

I'm going to have to start the thread from the beginning, looks like I'm missing stuff here. You're never to old to keep putting feelers out and searching, you never know what you might find.