It's the CLUBS not the GROWERS!!!

[TruthOrLie]

Limited edition cognacs are always expensive but a new level may have been reached with the Louis XIII Black Pearl cognac. (the original Louis XIII sells for around $1,500). The new release is limited to 786 bottles, the number of decanters that can be taken from one tiercon, the type of oak barrel used by Rémy Martin to age Louis XIII. The spirit is created from 1,200 eaux-de-vie aged 40 ? 100 years. The Louis XIII Black Pearl decanter is made of crystal that has a silvery gleam like polished hematite and the decanter is finished with platinum fleur-de-lis designs. NOTE:Because of the extreme value of this item, we will restric sale only in New York State. Only one available. $99,999.99

So is it the grape grower or the bottle maker or the liquor store that makes the bulk on this one?

I guess you guys can start selling ounces for thousands once its "legal" right?

All you got to do is put your top shelf in platinum pouches.

But its your growing skill that really fetches the high prices, right?

 

[Zen Master]

oh and since this seems so crazy off on a tangent now, I guess thats how its the CLUBS not the GROWERS because what growers were getting up until very recently was fair market value, if not undervalued given inflation.

when the club turns around and has a pound for 7000+ yet they are offering <3 for top shelf (offer only, negotiation skills vary) even down to <2. its a bit of a slap in the face considering the grower takes the risk for 3 months minimum for what the club handles in a week.

you can't be johnny appleseed and cover your acreage, it would be cool if we could, but its dodgy enough in certain jurisdictions to put even a single plant outside, the ones that have rec's usually dont go above 100, with multiple people to pay for help on grows that large, it cuts into that 3 realllll quick.

 

[dagnabit]

"I'm not sure how legal would incur more costs"
Please see post 523 for a detailed explanation

 

[TruthOrLie]

in a "legal" market i postulize you will see retail prices rise.
growers:
ATFE(M) regulations and inspections cost money
DWM regs and inspections cost money
meeting with OSHA standards cost money
pay roll taxes
individual mandate insurance
workers comp
DEP
the list of NEW costs for growers goes on and on
Retail outlets:
all the same cost increases(except for maybe DEP)
not forgetting legacy costs for unionized labor(production probably moving to the cotton belt for this and other varied reasons)
limited number of pot licenses (going with the alcohol model) at 200k-500k(who knows really) with annual renewals
then there are legal costs (as with liquor stores)
liability insurance (mandated for most businesses)
teamsters will want in on the shipping,there is a new middle man involved.
"sin" tax like liquor or tobacco.

all these new costs and prices will go down?
seems a bit unrealistic.

Take away the cost of getting raided.

Take away the cost of losing all your assets.

Take away the cost of losing all your production materials.

Take away the cost of losing your freedom.

Tell me why legal tomatos and tobacco doesn't cost $300 an oz but "legal" MMJ in California does.

Explain that to me, man.

Stop telling me this BS about how MJ is gonna cost more if you make it easier to produce, easier to sell.

Legal status now makes it difficult to produce and sell.


THE ONLY REASON MJ IS $300 AM OUNCE IN CALI IS BECAUSE EAST COASTERS WILL PAY DOUBLE.

The grower/seller/broker decides to sacrifice half profit for keeping it "more legal" and "more safe" to sell.

You make it more legal and more safe and the producers and sellers can easily afford to sell product for less because they can sell and produce more product. ITS FUCKING SIMPLE.

Why would East Coasters be willing to pay almost double what West Coasters pay? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I wonnnnnnnnnnnnder?

Is it because they can't grow top shelf like west coast folks?

Or is there a lack of individuals willing to risk the felony time to produce $600 ounces?

 

[Yes4Prop215]

yea TOL it might be less but it wont be the pipedream prices some of you people think might happen. even in a legal market place they are gonna charge as much as possible for as long as possible. you sure as shit wont see ounces of top shelf indoor OG kush selling for 50 bucks....

there will be 50 dollar ounces and plenty of them, just nothing i would want to smoke on.

 

[Zen Master]

yeah, exactly, those are costs to be incurred, if/when USDA or FDA approval needs to happen for a commercial garden you can bet your ass that cost will be passed on too.

oh but thats all hinging on the hypothetical legalization....

until then, risk/reward... sorry but my freedom is worth more than $10 an hour.


dude we aren't arguing that legalization will probably lower prices or at least stabilize them, its that you have an unrealistic idea of what 'business' is, much less a business that isn't 100% 'legal' everywhere. People don't go out and pick strawberries for less than what pays the bills.



oh and in regards to how 'its just like tomatoes man!'.... It just rained pretty hard here the other day... if I had full budding plants out in that rain, it would have RUINED them. Not so much for my tomatoes that WERE out in that weather and due to solid staking remained there. Even with staking any cannabis would have mold spores everywhere and be beat to hell by morning, definitely not grade A+. My tomatoes are fine, they can use a good washing once in a while anyways....

and as to why they dont cost the same per oz, well lets see, I crop 20+ lbs from one tomato plant. I get a zip or two from one high end cannabis plant. Hmm pretty simple math there.


edit: did you know that saffron, a 100% legal herb, sells for $10 a gram?

 

[TruthOrLie]

i dunno man...

I was getting ounces of OG for $200 until the supply ran out.

guy was happy to let it go that low

If that guy could put out an ad on Craiglist, or Fox11, or in the newspaper, or High Times, or on ICmag that he had that stuff all day for the low...

And his customers were anyone over the age of 18...

And his customers didn't have to "register" with a "doctor" and "pay" to be a "member" of a "quasi-illegal" group...

And he didn't have to worry about going to prison for selling his product...

I think the price could go PRETTY LOW.

 

[TruthOrLie]

. People don't go out and pick strawberries for less than what pays the bills.

You apparently have no clue as to what millions of illegal migrant workers have been doing in California and other parts of the United States for dozens of years. They live 10-20 people in a small home and send most of the money back home to families in other poorer countries.

So yea, it does pay the bills. But they don't go around charging $300 an ounce for strawberries because they "pick them gooder" than most.

 

[zbenjii]

Take away the cost of getting raided.

Take away the cost of losing all your assets.

Take away the cost of losing all your production materials.

Take away the cost of losing your freedom.

Tell me why legal tomatos and tobacco doesn't cost $300 an oz but "legal" MMJ in California does.

Explain that to me, man.

Stop telling me this BS about how MJ is gonna cost more if you make it easier to produce, easier to sell.

Legal status now makes it difficult to produce and sell.


THE ONLY REASON MJ IS $300 AM OUNCE IN CALI IS BECAUSE EAST COASTERS WILL PAY DOUBLE.

The grower/seller/broker decides to sacrifice half profit for keeping it "more legal" and "more safe" to sell.

You make it more legal and more safe and the producers and sellers can easily afford to sell product for less because they can sell and produce more product. ITS FUCKING SIMPLE.

Why would East Coasters be willing to pay almost double what West Coasters pay? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I wonnnnnnnnnnnnder?

Is it because they can't grow top shelf like west coast folks?

Or is there a lack of individuals willing to risk the felony time to produce $600 ounces?

This is absolutely true. If it becomes just as legal as alcohol or cigarettes, then a lot of the costs integrated into the price we see today will go away.

It's freaking economic laws guys.. take away the punishments for possession and sale of marijuana and the price WILL go down. no ifs, ands or buts.

If it becomes fully legalized, I promise you that it's not only going to be warehouses but huge farms.

I agree that it is east coast prices that are allowing California buds to be sold at 300 dollars an ounce. Literally 95% of buds I've seen/smoked on the east coast come from a medicinally legal marijuana state. The price of buds are high on the east coast because the supply of buds is restricted with additional costs(criminal punishment). East coast dealers have artificially sustained demand in medicinally legal marijuana states so that prices haven't fallen as much as they could have.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

i charge 200 for my OG kush zones and im happy to get that all day...if it gets legalized i dont see charging less unless its in bulk....but then that guy would sell for 200...

 

[TruthOrLie]

i charge 200 for my OG kush zones and im happy to get that all day...if it gets legalized i dont see charging less unless its in bulk....but then that guy would sell for 200...

if it gets legalized you guys could sell 10x as much and charge half the price and still make 5x the profit.

Doesn't matter how hard you think watering your tomatoes is. When it gets legalized the game changes from cat and mouse/cops and robbers to a pure numbers game.

Produce quality for less, you win.

Thats the message the clubs are sending the growers...

You guys grow in the safety of your homes, clubs distribute the product openly in a dangerous market.

 

[Zen Master]

You apparently have no clue as to what millions of illegal migrant workers have been doing in California and other parts of the United States for dozens of years. They live 10-20 people in a small home and send most of the money back home to families in other poorer countries.

So yea, it does pay the bills. But they don't go around charging $300 an ounce for strawberries because they "pick them gooder" than most.

lol I see these people every single day, I interact with them regularly as most are very pleasant people.

as I said, people do work that pays their bills. We aren't talking about how strawberries are overpriced, I said that because that pays THEIR bills or a portion of.

should everyone have to work 9am to 9pm just to put food on the table?

by growing ganja one incurs TENS OF THOUSANDS (if not hundreds of thousands) of dollars in costs that a strawberry picker doesn't.

if one could fill acres upon acres with trees instead of strawberries, you bet it would be cheaper, but that time is NOT here. You keep forgetting that.

its not a free for all where you can grow as much as humanly possible, once it gets straight up legalized across the board federally and its LEGALLY POSSIBLE to operate a 400,000 sq foot greenhouse and pump out hundreds of pounds regularly, yeah costs will drop. You can go do that with any of these legal crops you reference, however you CANNOT do that with cannabis as of today.

I'm not talking about what prices are going to be like in 10 years, I'm talking about today.

so yeah this thread is about how clubs are shortchanging the growers given TODAYS market. Not that legalization is going to drop the price a bit.

 

[dagnabit]

so you completely ignore the costs associated with legalization?
you do realize you cant get high off tomatoes right?
pot will never be regulated like maters.
hemp maybe.
pot will be regulated more like liquor.
how much is a liquor license?

 

[Zen Master]

You guys grow in the safety of your homes, clubs distribute the product openly in a dangerous market.

once again, we aren't talking about your closet grow.


oh you want us to grow 10x as much, charge half as much, and do it all in the same amount of space? with no extra help? and without the added cost of operation given its 10x bigger now? How much is one persons salary for a year? now add 20 employees to your payroll....

you think running a GROW HOUSE, not a closet op, is not sketchy at all?

how about a warehouse since you want us to run 10x as much?


a huge gigantic wal mart sized grow filled from wall to wall with OG Kush and 1000w lights would be fucking awesome, its illegal, and by running one you risk decades in prison.

when you CAN rent out the empty Target and blow it out with plants and lights and not have to worry about a damn thing other than the paperwork then yes prices drop. Until then, they remain.

get off your high horse about how 'legal' MMJ should be priced like tomatoes. its apples and oranges.

I still want to see a pic of flowers you grew if at all possible, since all you do is water a plant n all..

 

[Zen Master]

lets get back to the OP.



do you think its 'fair' for a retail outlet that charges $7 for an item to offer $2 to the wholesaler for it?

regardless of either parties overhead. regardless of volume.

the retailers end consists of: buy, stock the shelves, restock from wholesaler when necessary

that type of business.

 

[TruthOrLie]

I still want to see a pic of flowers you grew if at all possible, since all you do is water a plant n all..

what you don't know how to look at ICmag member's photo albums?

Its not the CLUBS. Its not the GROWERS. Its the LANDOWNERS.

The grower has a $250,000 house or $500,000 warehouse.

The retailer has a $1,000,000 store front.

The state court and legal system has a multimillion if not billion dollar industry processing citizens through courts.

Then you got the feds with a multitrillion dollar debt, they go to war for your freedoms, people die.

You got to pay the man. Plain and simple.

Grower is small time in the grand scheme of things. Get off your high horse tomato heads!

 

[dagnabit]

run a 10kw setup and get back to us..

till you do your a chipmunk telling a bear how easy it is to catch a salmon...
[and btw catching a salmon like a bear aint easy. you never know how hard it is till you do it. but those who can do it make it look easy]

 

[yesum]

I am guessing cannabis does not ever go much below $200 an oz. for quality. That is what it would sell to consumer, not what grower would get. Reason is, if you compare to tobacco then around $5 or $10 a day(gram of weed) to supply average person. Or for that matter, a six pack of good beer, around $5-$10.

A pack of smokes goes for around $4 or more with tax(a days amount for most). Pot has a little more room upside due to 'sin' factor of intoxication. So if you sold it straight to customer then you might get $200. If you sell it to clubs or other retailer, probably less than $100 an oz. Maybe much less than a 100. If you sell a certain amount or perhaps any to customer without proper legal authorization, you are a criminal.

Even with current laws, the price will fall. OG Kush, Chem D, Chocolope Fruity Tutti, no matter, it will all go down in price as med patients pump out buds from home in increasing volume. There is around 20% unemployment around here btw. Aside from legal med growers, there are many cartel tens of thousands grows in mountains and homes filled with lights and plants illegally.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

salmons, chipmunks and bears, oh my!

 

[dagnabit]

fda,usda and dep oh my...

added costs=higher prices in a legal market.