Is the power factor in the OG growfaq true

[stonewall]

what? do you want to replace your ballast?

That grow faq isn't written very well. I would disregard his conclusions.

 

[bluray22]

Yes but I'd prefer to just add a capacitor.

 

[stonewall]

why? are you having a problem with overcurrent? there is really no reason to be concerned otherwise.


power factor, at this level of consumption, has nothing to do with your power bill.


here read this:http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/ext/basicsPower-c.html

 

[bluray22]

Well my electric bill only allows me 1kilowatt per hour. I want to run two 150w hps on 12/12. I will exceed the 1kilowatt an hour limit if I run both of those lights. My bill will go up much more because of the current the lights will tie up in the reserve for the lights using the npf. I will be well over my allotted usage by the end of the month. The penalty here in California is double or more after you go to far over your allowance.

 

[stonewall]

California is pretty strict, but I still don't think they charge for anything but active power on the residential level. And changing the power factor does not change the active power used, just the current which affects the apparent power. You seem to be using the apparent power in your calculations. Again, your power bill is just charging you for the active power.

am I making any sense? SKELETOR, Buzzsmirk jump on in and help me out.

 

[bluray22]

So I don't have to worry about two 150 watters on my 20 amp circuit. That's damn good news. Thanks.

 

[stonewall]

thats correct.

 

[Buzzsmirk!]

"TWO 150 WATTERS"???= WORRY???

"TWO 150 WATTERS"???= WORRY???

So I don't have to worry about two 150 watters on my 20 amp circuit. That's damn good news. Thanks.

blue: unless your fucking local utility uses teams of hamsters running on the wheel to generate your electric power !!!! (gerbils if they're fags LOL)


two lights at that wattage would not cause your "bill" to go up much at all!
like ten bucks a month maybe.

you speak of power factors being your "ticket" to beating your power fears.
you mention messing with your capicitor selection,why?? are you experiencing
some sort of overload, heat, harmonic(s) ????

if you want total efficiency with HIDs small you should consider digital ballast
but i aint so sure they come in your size you may want to consider a single larger lamp that is offer in a digital ballast.
flourescent lighting may be a more conservative option for ya!!

as for CALI and they're unregulated fucked up power system(s) i havent a clue! "SKULL" and I are in the same region as "general jackson" and our power companies are less "severe" on utility billing with regard to "power factors" rate increases for going over the "standard" consumption and other types of shit the power company does to fuck ya on the bill, but our utility(ies) are "regulated" by the state(s) we live in (thank da lord!!!!!) LOL

u seem to have a real "power paranioa" trip!! chill out!!!!
burn one

and listen to my friends "skelletor"(skull) and"stonewall" (general jackson) they're on target with theyre offerings/replies in a nut shell (dont worry about it!!)
BUZZ!

 

[stonewall]

to beat a dead horse

to beat a dead horse

I reread the grow faq and have to say his premise is wrong from the get go. Kilowatt/hour meters only read active watts.

The difference between active watts and lamp wattage is not the power factor. Rather power factor is the ratio of active watts to apparent watts ( volts X amps) . The lamp wattage is the active watts minus the ballast loses. It has nothing to do with power factor. There is a ballast efficacy factor, sometimes called ballast efficiency factor, ballast efficacy factor is the ratio of the ballast factor to the active power (in watts), usually expressed as a percent. It is used as a relative measurement of the system efficacy of the lamp/ballast combination.

His problem is how he is coming up with the figures he uses for (W) or what he is calling lamp wattage, which should actually be active watts. He is useing the rated wattage of the lamp in the equation where he should be useing active watts. Active watts is the actual watts the bulb and ballast combo use, and what you get billed for.

its late, I hope that makes some sense. that grow FAQ is wrong just plain wrong.

 

[een]

Ignore that FAQ it's wrong. A 150W bulb does indeed draw 150W. THe ballast is 5-15% inefficient, so add 5-15% to whatever your bulb size is to find the total power use.

For the first first minutes after startup it will draw up to 35% more than normal, which is why you have to overrate your circuit, otherwise it might trip the breaker at startup. Edit: Sorry this paragraph is wrong ignore it.

 

[Guest]

2 150 watt hps use approximately 330 watts over 12 hours= 3960 watts per day...one kwh is 1000 watts...wait i already posted something similar...shit stoner life is good

how many watts you are using x how many hours per day you are using that wattage x how many cents per kwh you pay divided by 1000 = how much you pay for the wattage you chose in the equation per day

 

[Guest]

een have you ever held an amprobe on an HID circuit during startup?It surely doesnt spike 30% for a couple MINUTES?No my friend its more like a negligible amount and its so instantaneous that if you're not watching the meter closely,you'll miss it.We are talking about milliseconds here,for the most part you cant read the actual spike numbers because its too fast.To say it lasts a couple minutes is to give people the wrong idea.All this talk about power factors and startup amperage is interesting but in reality you dont need to take any of it into account when sizing branch circuit wiring.Only one thing is of any importance and thats the nameplate amperage rating.Not the wattage rating,power factor or startup amperage,its all of no importance whatsoever when sizing circuits.Everything will be taken into account when you use the nameplate amperage rating so thats all you really need to be concerned with.

 

[Grasso]

Hello,

off-topic: Have you measured the waveform of the current, Skeletor? I think that gas discharge lights, especially the low-pressure ones, have a non-linear current draw.

also off-topic: A purely active ballast uses as much power as the bulb does: Two 15W sun tan tubes on a 30W resistor. Some predominantly reactive but still cheap ballast chokes waste half of that power. Digital ballasts can be inefficient, too, for instance the ones of many CFLs.

Uli

 

[Guest]

low pressure sodium and high pressure sodium lights are completely different as the rest of what you say

Hello,

off-topic: Have you measured the waveform of the current, Skeletor? I think that gas discharge lights, especially the low-pressure ones, have a non-linear current draw.

also off-topic: A purely active ballast uses as much power as the bulb does: Two 15W sun tan tubes on a 30W resistor. Some predominantly reactive but still cheap ballast chokes waste half of that power. Digital ballasts can be inefficient, too, for instance the ones of many CFLs.

Uli

 

[een]

een have you ever held an amprobe on an HID circuit during startup?It surely doesnt spike 30% for a couple MINUTES?No my friend its more like a negligible amount and its so instantaneous that if you're not watching the meter closely,you'll miss it.We are talking about milliseconds here,for the most part you cant read the actual spike numbers because its too fast.To say it lasts a couple minutes is to give people the wrong idea.All this talk about power factors and startup amperage is interesting but in reality you dont need to take any of it into account when sizing branch circuit wiring.Only one thing is of any importance and thats the nameplate amperage rating.Not the wattage rating,power factor or startup amperage,its all of no importance whatsoever when sizing circuits.Everything will be taken into account when you use the nameplate amperage rating so thats all you really need to be concerned with.

No I haven't but I just did, to try to prove you wrong but you're right! My 600W HPS drew a rock steady current and my 250W HPS actually started lower then increased, so I was wrong and have corrected what I said, my apologies. I said it because I have heard so many growers say it and I have seen a graph of it somewhere on a manufacturers website, which is a pretty reliable source so I thought it was legit. I will try and find the graph and read it properly... h:

I'm not the one that started talking about power factor, I just tried to throw in some extra information that unfortunately was wrong.

 

[Guest]

Pretty interesting huh?I sure can understand why you would think there's a massive surge the way the subject is pounded on around here lol,another good myth is voltage drop.Believe me at 100 ft. you may want to start to think about upsizing,but I've heard anywhere from 40 ft to 80 ft and thats just wasting money,especially how expensive copper is these days.Thats good you want to see for yourself,I wish everyone had an amprobe so we could dispell this myth once and for all.Everything a person needs to be concerned with when sizing a circuit is the nameplate amperage rating of the appliance,power factors and surges are not part of the equation

 

[BudGood2006]

My Fluke meter does AC/DC voltage, continuity, and has a amperage tester that'll fit up to 3/0 wires (I think), more than adequate for growers needs, only a hundred bucks or so (when I bought it 5 or so years ago). It'd be a worthy addition to anybodys grow gear, IMHO.

 

[imnotcrazy]

Power factor correction relates to the PHASE ANGLE relationship between voltage and current in the form ELI ICE = where E=Voltage L=Inductor (coil of ballast) I=Current and C=Capacitor. This refers to current LAGGING voltage in an INDUCTIVE circuit and Current LEADING Voltage in a CAPACITIVE circuit. The lead or lag should be in the order of 90 degrees on a phase angle diagram. Usually, Power Factor correction is only done on large 3 Phase Inductive motor loads such as in a large factory. Your ballast SHOULD NOT need power factor correction and SHOULD have a power factor of better than 70-80%. Power Factor correction using large banks of capacitors is done to balance the 3 Phase load and bring the power factor of the site to @ 90%. Power factors greater than 90-95% can cost you money as power companies EXPECT your load to be INDUCTIVE and will penalize you for showing a capacitive load because you NULLIFY some the inductive load on the grid and they have to cut you a check in return because your Utility Meter will actually spin in REVERSE. It is feasible to do so if you have $20-40K for the capacitor banks necessary to get the job done. But it certainly isn't necesary to do so for an HID ballast. It would cost more than it's worth actually.

 

[Guest]

Sounds groovy to me.

 

[stonewall]

just for fun
http://www.aemc.com/techinfo/appnotes/clamp_on_meters/App_Clamp-OnMeters_InrushCurrent.pdf