Is the Master Kush from Nirvana and the Master Kush from White Label the same thing?

[xtsho]

People talking about how some of these European seed banks took others strains and then sold them as their own makes no sense because that's exactly what a majority of seed sellers are doing these days. Just look at all the outfits in the US pumping out new hybrids daily with different names. A good percentage of them just took other peoples work and used it. Yet people stay up all night waiting on some drop on instagram to get them.

Many of the stories floating around about who took what, who made what, who screwed who over, etc... are just stories without any proof of validity. Passed around on cannabis forums and considered fact without any proof. He said she said, I heard it, so and so said, etc... Like any story they change over time. Best not to pay too much attention to what you read online.

I've grown Sensi and Dutch Passion and the results were nothing like the horrible descriptions so many describe. If anything, from what I've seen is that there are more US outfits operating extremely shady than European. I noticed years ago there was a coordinated effort to discredit European outfits and apparently that propaganda has stuck with many based on what I read in the forums.

I'm in the US and I've never bought seeds from a US outfit. I'm growing quality cannabis with strains acquired from European vendors. The reason for that is I have no desire to grow any of the casserole strains being pumped out in the US. Cherry Pie Chocolate Thai Haze or Monkey Cookies Strawberry Kush Cake are not strains I'm paying $20-$30 a seed for. It's like the seed market in the US now resembles some form of cartoon collector cards for children. Nothing I want to be a part of.

I'm happy with what I've grown from Sensi and Dutch Passion but ACE Seeds is mostly what I grow these days and use to make my own hybrids which are as good or better than all the fluff coming from the US pollen chuckers these days. Plus I get to create my own strains starting from scratch which I find very rewarding.

I've grown both Dutch Passion and White Label Master Kush. There was absolutely nothing wrong with either of them. I've also grown some strains from Nirvana. In fact their Maui Waui is pretty damn good. I don't know how authentic it is but it's some damn good weed. Most names are meaningless these days anyway.

That's my take on the matter.

 

[willydread]

MNS got masterkush x skunk.

DP and Nirvana come from Positronic...
Apart from the imaginative descriptions (2 types of Hindukush, 3 Hindukush, landrace, NL, Nevil kush 4, etc.) they all use the old master kush from Posi, which is Hindukush x skunk...
So nirvana is what has (at least) the authentic description.
With Dutch sb you need luck, sometimes you find the fire, other times you throw the money away......

 

[goingrey]

And that's without mentioning their hermie fem seeds. Maybe it's changed now but for a long time they used to make their fems by rhodelization while the rest of the industry had been reversing plants with STS for many years.

Maybe you can be lucky, but classic dutch strains are a crapshoot, as dutch seedbanks got massively raided during the 2000's and lost most of their parentals. Sensi and others have never admitted this because they only care about the money. The Dutch care a lot more about money than honesty, as you can tell from the shit they sell to tourists in their coffee shops.

I personally would get started with Nirvana. They're a copycat seedbank themselves, but at least they (used to) do their own breeding.

No one is using rodelization to produce any serious amounts of seeds and never has, it simply doesn't produce enough pollen. Henk van Dalen from Dutch Passion did invent the method though (and Soma the name).

DP was actually the first company to sell fem seeds. Here is what they say themselves:

The idea of feminized seed was often discussed but no-one was sure it would be possible. Henk noticed that towards the end of its life a female cannabis plant would often produce male flowers if it was left long enough. These flowers would produce ‘female’ pollen; the seeds produced from it would give rise to female plants. Henk started working with this method systematically studying the cannabis plants at different stages of their life. He noted that almost all female plants had a tendency to produce small numbers of male flowers if left long enough.

It is a survival mechanism built into the genetics of cannabis plants and is a way of allowing seed production to occur even if male plants are not present. Henk still recalls his first experiment where he collected this ‘female pollen’ to pollinate some female plants. 50 seeds were later collected and germinated. All of them went on to become female cannabis plants; it was a historic moment for Henk and Dutch Passion. The first feminized seeds went on sale and became the talk of the cannabis community, they quickly sold out and demand increased dramatically. The next challenge was to find ways of producing abundant quantities of ‘female pollen’ so that significant quantities of feminized seed could be produced to satisfy the growing demand.

Henk used his biology background to see how to solve the problem. Work had been done on some vegetables such as Cucumber. Plant hormones and other less complicated ways could be found to change the morphology and plant physiology without disordering the normal female plant growth. Research was done, improved and refined. Eventually abundant quantities of pollen could be produced which would allow production of feminized seed meet the growing demand from the self sufficient home grower.

Today feminized seed accounts for the overwhelming majority of seeds sold. The process of feminizing seed has been further improved and is now very reliable and consistent; most seedbanks only offer feminized seeds.

Henk also often gets credit for discovering using silver and gibberellic acid to create fem seeds. In the text above they talk about cucumbers but seems likely that what he "discovered" was these papers:

Induction of male flowers on female plants of Cannabis sativa by gibberellins and its inhibition by abscisic acid - Planta

Gibberellins (GA3, GA4+7, GA7 and GA9) induce male flowers on female plants of Cannabis sativa. This is, depending on concentration, partially or fully inhibited by abscisic acid (ABA). The ABA effect can in turn be partially overcome by increasing the concentration of GA3.

link.springer.com

Induction of fertile male flowers in genetically female Cannabis sativa plants by silver nitrate and silver thiosulphate anionic complex - Theoretical and Applied Genetics

Apical application of silver nitrate (AgNO3; 50 and 100 μg per plant) and silver thiosulphate anionic complex (Ag(S2O3) 2 3− ; STS; 25, 50 and 100 μg per plant) to female plants of Cannabis sativa induced the formation of reduced male, intersexual and fully altered male flowers on the newly...

link.springer.com

Also, never hear of Shantibaba being credited as the breeder of Master Kush before? Where did you hear that?

 

[J0sh1]

I've grown both Dutch Passion and White Label Master Kush. There was absolutely nothing wrong with either of them. I've also grown some strains from Nirvana. In fact their Maui Waui is pretty damn good. I don't know how authentic it is but it's some damn good weed. Most names are meaningless these days anyway.

That's my take on the matter.

I totally agree with your take. In 2007 I bought from Gypsy's SeedBoutique Nirvana's Hawai Maui Maui and Pure Power Plant regs seeds and have kept them till this day and its damn fine weed. Those plants in my opinion have nothing to be jealous about all the new cookies/runts/backpack boys stuff that's popping with the children nowadays.

I have been running Sensi, GreenHouse, Dutch Passion, Barneys, Nirvana, Flying Dutchmen for 15+ years and in my opinion they produce some fine quality weed. I have never understood all the hate/backlash a lot of these companies get around here.

I never knew or heard that Master Kush was a product of Shantibaba's work. All I remember is that it used to be called High Rise and it was breed in Holland. I thing Greg Green's Cannabis Breeder Bible mentions it if I'm not mistaken.

I personally haven't grown a lot of US seeds so I can't have a solid opinon on the growing side of it. But on the commercial end dispensary out here leave a lot to be desired. All day I would take the cannabis from Dutch stock that I grow in my rooms versus the American stock they peddle out here in the dispensaries.

 

[goingrey]

I've grown both Dutch Passion and White Label Master Kush

What's your opinion on my theory, that White Label Master Kush is a Dutch Passion knockoff?

 

[revegeta666]

I never knew or heard that Master Kush was a product of Shantibaba's work

I have read this a few times, in Spanish forums. Just people commenting so I may be wrong, I can't be sure. I will see if I can get back to you with a quote on that.

Those plants in my opinion have nothing to be jealous about all the new cookies/runts/backpack boys stuff that's popping with the children nowadays.

All day I would take the cannabis from Dutch stock that I grow in my rooms versus the American stock they peddle out here in the dispensaries.

I don't grow the OG/cookies bullshit myself, I was just commenting on how dishonest Dutch seedbanks are. Which I guess you could say about American breeders too, just that we were talking about Dutch stuff. They have been professional seed sellers for decades too.

My favourite keeper is a Maple Leaf that I bought from sensi in 2017. So most probably not the original stuff, still I love this plant.

You can get good plants from almost any stock. I had some great plants from the shitty bulk seeds they give for free in Spain in grow shops when you buy stuff

 

[xtsho]

What's your opinion on my theory, that White Label Master Kush is a Dutch Passion knockoff?

I don't know one way or the other. It would be no different than any of the other 2 dozen outfits putting out what they call Master Kush or the 3 dozen outfits putting out White Widow. There is only going to be one original. I'm not saying that is the case here as I don't know who is a knockoff or who isn't. But sometimes the knockoffs are better than the originals.

If it's good weed. Smoke it.

 

[goingrey]

I don't know one way or the other. It would be no different than any of the other 2 dozen outfits putting out what they call Master Kush or the 3 dozen outfits putting out White Widow. There is only going to be one original. I'm not saying that is the case here as I don't know who is a knockoff or who isn't. But sometimes the knockoffs are better than the originals.

If it's good weed. Smoke it.

Hehe well let me rephrase my question: were they similar?

 

[xtsho]

Hehe well let me rephrase my question: were they similar?

It's been years since I grew either one. I don't remember either being bad. Were they similar? I don't remember. I wasn't growing them side by side to compare.

Funny thing about Master Kush and for that matter just about any strain is that if you look them up you'll get different information and strains using the same names but different lineages. Names don't really mean anything these days. Exceptions being those that denote specific regions where the strain originated from but that would be more for landraces.

Here's two different descriptions that pop up when searching "Master Kush strain history"

"Master Kush is a hybrid of two classic strains, Hindu Kush and Skunk #1. Hindu Kush is a pure indica that originates from the mountains of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Skunk #1 is a potent hybrid that was developed in the Netherlands.

Master Kush was created in the 1990s by White Label Seed Company, a sister company of well-known cannabis seeds producer Sensi Seeds."

Here's another:

"Master Kush is a strain originally named High Rise, which comes from south Amsterdam. It was bred by Nirvana and is a cross between a true Hindu Kush and a Skunk #1."

If you go to seedfinder and look at the lineage of the different brands many are different. Although I don't know how accurate the information on that website is. The lineage for the White Label description I posted above doesn't match the lineage or description on Seedfinder which is "A mainly Indica hybrid created with 2 different Hindu-Kush Afghani varieties." No mention of Skunk. Which one is correct?


Some of the Master Kush out there.

European versions:

Nirvana: Master Kush »»» Hindu Kush x Skunk

White Label: Master Kush »»» Hindu Kush x Hindu Kush

Dutch Passion: Master Kush »»» Hindu Kush x Hindu Kush

Black Label: Master Kush »»» Hindu Kush x Unknown Skunk



United States versions:

Humboldt Seed Organization: Master Kush »»» Master Kush x OG Kush Emerald OG BX4

California Breeders Association: Master Kush »»» {Master Kush probably x Fire OG} x Master Kush probably

 

[xtsho]

This Master Kush discussion had me thinking.

Maybe I'll cross these two and call it Master Kush.

Then cross it with this Nirvana Maui Waui and call it Master Maui Kush.

 

[Devondale]

People talking about how some of these European seed banks took others strains and then sold them as their own makes no sense because that's exactly what a majority of seed sellers are doing these days. Just look at all the outfits in the US pumping out new hybrids daily with different names. A good percentage of them just took other peoples work and used it. Yet people stay up all night waiting on some drop on instagram to get them.

Many of the stories floating around about who took what, who made what, who screwed who over, etc... are just stories without any proof of validity. Passed around on cannabis forums and considered fact without any proof. He said she said, I heard it, so and so said, etc... Like any story they change over time. Best not to pay too much attention to what you read online.

I've grown Sensi and Dutch Passion and the results were nothing like the horrible descriptions so many describe. If anything, from what I've seen is that there are more US outfits operating extremely shady than European. I noticed years ago there was a coordinated effort to discredit European outfits and apparently that propaganda has stuck with many based on what I read in the forums.

I'm in the US and I've never bought seeds from a US outfit. I'm growing quality cannabis with strains acquired from European vendors. The reason for that is I have no desire to grow any of the casserole strains being pumped out in the US. Cherry Pie Chocolate Thai Haze or Monkey Cookies Strawberry Kush Cake are not strains I'm paying $20-$30 a seed for. It's like the seed market in the US now resembles some form of cartoon collector cards for children. Nothing I want to be a part of.

I'm happy with what I've grown from Sensi and Dutch Passion but ACE Seeds is mostly what I grow these days and use to make my own hybrids which are as good or better than all the fluff coming from the US pollen chuckers these days. Plus I get to create my own strains starting from scratch which I find very rewarding.

I've grown both Dutch Passion and White Label Master Kush. There was absolutely nothing wrong with either of them. I've also grown some strains from Nirvana. In fact their Maui Waui is pretty damn good. I don't know how authentic it is but it's some damn good weed. Most names are meaningless these days anyway.

That's my take on the matter.

Im sad about the many varieties I passed on in the last decade or so because of hearsay on forums. Now that i take it all with a grain of salt and actually try things for myself im having a lot more fun

 

[Devondale]

I liked the money maker master kush by world of seeds. Very strong tasty smoke and borderline psychedelic at times

 

[xtsho]

Im sad about the many varieties I passed on in the last decade or so because of hearsay on forums. Now that i take it all with a grain of salt and actually try things for myself im having a lot more fun

No reason to be sad about anything. As long as what you passed on was decent smoke and people enjoyed it is all that matters.

 

[Devondale]

No reason to be sad about anything. As long as what you passed on was decent smoke and people enjoyed it is all that matters.

Oh what I meant was I’m sad about all the varieties I didn’t grow but thankyou i think it applies to that also.

 

[J0sh1]

In my opinion White Label Master Kush is a really good one. I have had the opportunity to also grow Dutch Passion's version and Nirvana's as well. All are very worthy, but the only one I decided to keep going in my collection was the White Label version. My 2 cents!

 

[goingrey]

I liked the money maker master kush by world of seeds. Very strong tasty smoke and borderline psychedelic at times

Doesn't seem to be available from WOS but "Strain Hunters" (GHS) does have it.

Was wondering why GHS doesn't have a Master Kush when they even won the 1994 HTCC with it (coffeeshop category). But they do after all then.

 

[goingrey]

Im sad about the many varieties I passed on in the last decade or so because of hearsay on forums. Now that i take it all with a grain of salt and actually try things for myself im having a lot more fun

Totally, missed opportunities based on some kind of stoned theories where the dots have been connected all wrong, and then parroted all over the forums as "truth" by others. Not to mention the time wasted "researching" these theories.

On the other hand, can't grow everything and did grow something else instead...

 

[Devondale]

It’s like the Qwiso guide. For years I would wonder why my yields were so low. Then one day it clicked with me… why am I using freezing temps all I’m doing is knocking of resin without dissolving it. Changed up to doing it room temp and easily doubled Oil yield with better quality. I came to found out that the original guide from OG never said to use cold temps but somehow it came to be the standard.

Sorry to get so far of the topic. Stoned parrots would be a great strain name lol. Ah that’s right it was strain hunters, I forgot they are a GHS company. Sensi was on my blacklist for years no other reason then my poor discretion and stoned forum parrots lol

edit: Sorry to be an ass and make it seem like this or forums are only people spreading bad information. These places are gold and cant let a few bad apples like me spoil it. I’ll try to be better and keep my bad side to myself