irrigation line configuration fed by electric pump?

[f-e]

I don't see any other type of dc pump providing the lift or pressure to push up a decent hill from battery power. Or push through a pressure compensating emitter.

I have posted a number of 12vdc pumps on this page suitable for compensated emitters. I use 12vdc almost exclusively.

I have my diaphragm pump now. Only a cheap one, but I will be giving it away. It's louder than my car. While a submersible drip pump is quieter than a mechanical timer ticking.

I think this pump must be thrashing away with a small diaphragm and no counter weight. It's like a big vibrator.

I looked on the netafim site and was surprised to see the basic PC dripper had a 0.5 - 4 bar range. Or 7.5 - 60 psi. Or 5 - 40 meters. It was the 0.5 that surprised me. Down from a more typical 0.8 and making pumps just under 10 meters possible. While 5 meters is about it for AC fountain pumps in Walmart, there are a large number of 7m+ DC pumps available for pennies. Most sump pumps starts about 7meters to, even the smaller 150w ones. While people typically struggle with 400w variants and NC drippers.


This conversation shows how few people can spec a drip system. Which with 0.5 bar PC's shouldn't be hard at all. I have stood in amany a hydro shop though with dismay. Most can't put together a drip system. A system that drips, yes. A balanced one though, not a hope

 

[flamstaa]

Is it possible install solar panel/s and run a 24V submersible pump


You could run the lowest model here comfortably with 1 solar panel. No need for a deep cycle battery. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Solar-W...596435?hash=item28a4cd1893:g:m~0AAOSwG8ld1lYk



https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-325...68c36|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2334524&frcectupt=true

 

[f-e]

Prompted to check, a system in AU might produce 80% output at best. Location is everything. A system in Alice Springs puts out 50% more per day than one in Hobart. That 80% relies on the best weather in the best part of the day, so you couldn't rely on it. I'm surprised how close it is to working though. It actually could, on some days in some places. Here in the UK you would have no chance.

A battery big enough for the days usage is always going to be a good idea. The output of the panels regulation device will expect one and it acts as smoothing to an otherwise rough output. A DC pump may itself have an electronic drive that won't play well with the output of an inverter. So something will be needed in most cases.

The battery will ensure the pump isn't throttled by the weather, which could lead to lower levels of water delivery. It will also power a timer if the timer is clockwork. Unlikely as that is.

 

[Swamp Thang]

Prompted to check, a system in AU might produce 80% output at best. Location is everything. A system in Alice Springs puts out 50% more per day than one in Hobart. That 80% relies on the best weather in the best part of the day, so you couldn't rely on it. I'm surprised how close it is to working though. It actually could, on some days in some places. Here in the UK you would have no chance.

A battery big enough for the days usage is always going to be a good idea. The output of the panels regulation device will expect one and it acts as smoothing to an otherwise rough output. A DC pump may itself have an electronic drive that won't play well with the output of an inverter. So something will be needed in most cases.

The battery will ensure the pump isn't throttled by the weather, which could lead to lower levels of water delivery. It will also power a timer if the timer is clockwork. Unlikely as that is.

A clockwork timer is not needed, because one could go with a 12-volt timer that has its own internal battery so that it never misses a beat in the event of a power failure. I've ordered this timer

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Timer-Swit...var=652179850250&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

My setup will be a 20 Watt solar panel, charging a car battery via a PWM controller rated for 10 amps

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20W-Solar-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EPEVER-Sol...var=574625168681&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Finally the pump will be this submersible to keep things nice and quiet.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-Sub...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

[St. Phatty]

Is it possible install solar panel/s and run a 24V submersible pump

12 volt pumps are usually less work.

the 12 volt motor is easier to run off a battery, the 12 volt battery is easier to re-charge.

 

[f-e]

A clockwork timer is not needed, because one could go with a 12-volt timer that has its own internal battery so that it never misses a beat in the event of a power failure. I've ordered this timer

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Timer-Swit...var=652179850250&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

My setup will be a 20 Watt solar panel, charging a car battery via a PWM controller rated for 10 amps

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20W-Solar-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EPEVER-Sol...var=574625168681&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Finally the pump will be this submersible to keep things nice and quiet.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-Sub...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I replied before but it's missing. I must of lost connection. The gist was that with your 10 foot climb you might fill a 250L barrel in half hour before a perfect days worth of 20w panel is exhausted. About 5ah.

However if your plot was elevated 13 foot you might not get a drop and less than perfect weather would be a problem.

It's the pumps head. 5 - 7 meters. I have no idea why it would state a range which is disturbing. A meter high barrel elevated 3 meters leaves about 20% pump capacity. I loose 4 meters of head through my filter and anti-syphon valve. Any real pumping job needs a bar/10meter/15psi at least.

 

[Swamp Thang]

I replied before but it's missing. I must of lost connection. The gist was that with your 10 foot climb you might fill a 250L barrel in half hour before a perfect days worth of 20w panel is exhausted. About 5ah.

However if your plot was elevated 13 foot you might not get a drop and less than perfect weather would be a problem.

It's the pumps head. 5 - 7 meters. I have no idea why it would state a range which is disturbing. A meter high barrel elevated 3 meters leaves about 20% pump capacity. I loose 4 meters of head through my filter and anti-syphon valve. Any real pumping job needs a bar/10meter/15psi at least.

Wow, this information is appreciated. I did not factor in the barrel height above ground level, and the pressure loss caused by the filter and anti-siphon valve, which I didn't even realize would be needed.

Running the pump on a timer, I assumed that the pump design would prevent water siphoning back into the pond, during the times when the pump was timed out and not running.

It looks like I'll need to run some tests of the system before I go out and plumb it together at the grow site. May I ask what type of filter you use at the pump end, to keep out debris from the stagnant pond ?

My plan was to suspend the submersible pump inside a plastic drum with the floor cut out and replaced with plastic mesh stretched over the drum floor. I opted for plastic mesh since any type of metal mesh would corrode and tear over time.

To keep the drum from tipping sideways, I was planning to affix rocks around the lower edge of the drum, and floats around the top edge of the drum, to keep it upright, without resting on the pond floor, and with the upper edge of the drum barely breaking the water surface. This is all theoretical thus far, since the parts are all inbound by air freight.

 

[Swamp Thang]

With my irrigation project becoming something of an obsession, I went ahead and bought this more powerful deep water submersible pump, rated to lift water 25 meters, or 75 feet.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12Volt-Sol...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

This pump is overkill for my purposes, but with that amount of heft, I might be able to locate the pump much further away from my grow site, in the flowing river, rather than in a nearby stagnant pond whose level runs quite low during the dry season.

Another uncertainty that I'll need to investigate with actual tests, is whether a car battery that is being charged by a 20 watt solar panel, can provide enough power to run this 180 watt rated pump for repeated 30-minute timed durations, without draining the battery too much to be recharged by the solar panel.

 

[CrushnYuba]

25psi is best for most systems. No one wants pansy pressure. Higher pressures will give you more even distribution between emitters and emitters clog way less frequently. 15 is like the minimum. The only emitters i know of that work ok with less are flag emitters or similar.

Drip systems work off real water supply like a garden hose. No one wants a drip system with no pressure. Pressure regulators for drip systems are 25psi or more.

7.5psi won't even open the netafim woodpeckers i use. Just no water will come out. They say 11psi will open them. But they need over 20 to work right.

The only thing im using a diaphragm pump for right now is for providing water to my house. I live off grid and its just the most efficient use of power.* There is no other type of pump that is even close.* My gardens need more water then a house though.* I use a 3/4hp 7 stage submersible well pump i mounted in a 2500 gallon tank. A medium size greenhouse uses 300 26L per hour sprayers.* It would take forever with a diaphragm pump.* I use that one pump to provide irrigation all across 20 acres.* But each one of my batteries weighs 1200 lbs. U need a tractor to move it.

But when it comes to my house that uses less then 5gpm, NOTHING is more energy efficient then a diaphram. Without debate. You find me a centrifugal pump that can do 3gpm with 80w or 5gpm with 160w with the same pressure as a garden hose at your house. It's real water with hardly any power.

 

[f-e]

With my irrigation project becoming something of an obsession, I went ahead and bought this more powerful deep water submersible pump, rated to lift water 25 meters, or 75 feet.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12Volt-Sol...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

This pump is overkill for my purposes, but with that amount of heft, I might be able to locate the pump much further away from my grow site, in the flowing river, rather than in a nearby stagnant pond whose level runs quite low during the dry season.

Another uncertainty that I'll need to investigate with actual tests, is whether a car battery that is being charged by a 20 watt solar panel, can provide enough power to run this 180 watt rated pump for repeated 30-minute timed durations, without draining the battery too much to be recharged by the solar panel.

$50 is nothing for a pump that good. I'm a bit shocked.

15 amp drain, so your half hour is 7.5ah from a 12v battery. Car batteries start around 40ah for the smallest so you can safely run 3 sessions (days?) before taking the battery over half flat, which is as low as you take them without damage as a rough guide.

You will need a contactor between timer and pump as such loads will weld the piddly little relay in the timer shut. The other pump was no different. You may find a fuel pump relay that can do it, but there is no point looking. Contactors are cheap enough.

You will need to look on the solar forums to see how well panels are truly performing in your area. If it says 20w that will be peak, and that much sun will likely over heat it reducing it back below that 20w. It's a tough call. You may want to put more anti-reflective coating on which will have an unknown effect to.
180w for half hour. To be collected in maybe 6 hours. You must have 15w from the sun. I reckon you might see that 'peak' and so should think about two of them. Though I know I would be looking at much bigger ones and the anti-glare you put on binoculars

If you don't use an anti-syphon, and instead have the delivery hose out of the water, then the hose will empty back into the water source. This 'backwash' could help clear a filter in some situations.
I think I would go with a 20L oil can from a restaurant. It will sink. Perforate it in lots of places, and drop it in a hop-sack tied tight round where your hose leaves the arrangement. That big sack will let through water but nothing big enough to block well sized hose.

My anti-syphon valves are a different affair. I'm sending water down the hill and want my water to stop when the pump does. So I have a resistive arrangement. It's not applicable here, I was just talking about how a little bit 'extra' is rarely a bad thing.


I was surprised to see the netafim basic PC emitters are now rated from just 0.5bar which finally brings drippers in line with the sump-pumps that we typically see used in peoples water-butts. I must of missed them arrive.

 

[f-e]

But when it comes to my house that uses less then 5gpm, NOTHING is more energy efficient then a diaphram. Without debate. You find me a centrifugal pump that can do 3gpm with 80w or 5gpm with 160w with the same pressure as a garden hose at your house. It's real water with hardly any power.

Displacements pumps can be very efficient. You are converting 75% of your power into useful work delivering 3gpm with a 3 bar head. By that particular benchmark the centrifugal design doesn't compare.

 

[Swamp Thang]

$50 is nothing for a pump that good. I'm a bit shocked.

15 amp drain, so your half hour is 7.5ah from a 12v battery. Car batteries start around 40ah for the smallest so you can safely run 3 sessions (days?) before taking the battery over half flat, which is as low as you take them without damage as a rough guide.

You will need a contactor between timer and pump as such loads will weld the piddly little relay in the timer shut. The other pump was no different. You may find a fuel pump relay that can do it, but there is no point looking. Contactors are cheap enough.

You will need to look on the solar forums to see how well panels are truly performing in your area. If it says 20w that will be peak, and that much sun will likely over heat it reducing it back below that 20w. It's a tough call. You may want to put more anti-reflective coating on which will have an unknown effect to.
180w for half hour. To be collected in maybe 6 hours. You must have 15w from the sun. I reckon you might see that 'peak' and so should think about two of them. Though I know I would be looking at much bigger ones and the anti-glare you put on binoculars

If you don't use an anti-syphon, and instead have the delivery hose out of the water, then the hose will empty back into the water source. This 'backwash' could help clear a filter in some situations.
I think I would go with a 20L oil can from a restaurant. It will sink. Perforate it in lots of places, and drop it in a hop-sack tied tight round where your hose leaves the arrangement. That big sack will let through water but nothing big enough to block well sized hose.

My anti-syphon valves are a different affair. I'm sending water down the hill and want my water to stop when the pump does. So I have a resistive arrangement. It's not applicable here, I was just talking about how a little bit 'extra' is rarely a bad thing.


I was surprised to see the netafim basic PC emitters are now rated from just 0.5bar which finally brings drippers in line with the sump-pumps that we typically see used in peoples water-butts. I must of missed them arrive.

I had to read this post a few times to absorb the wealth of very useful information about irrigation pump technology. Matter of fact, I'm copying these paragraphs for saving in my irrigation file folder, with your kind permission, of course.

Would a contactor be the same as a relay ? I am buying a waterproof relay rated for 12 Volts, 40 amps, while the pump is rated for 180 watts, 12 volts DC.

Recalling that wattage is the product of voltage x current, the current draw of the pump should be about 180 Watts/12 volts =15 amps, or less than half of the relay's current limit.

With this relay handling the pump's current flow, hopefully the timer will last a good while without ever getting fried.

 

[f-e]

I better read it all again if you want to reference it. I do smoke a bit you know..

The relay seems fine at a glance. However not all 180w loads are equal. 180w of spotlights are must easier to switch than 180w of pump motor. This is why the type of load is usually specified when giving switchgear a rating. Without an indication, we presume type 1, a resistive load. The pump will require some derating of that 40a and there is no fixed rule. So the relay doesn't actually give a specification with regards to switching a pump.

If you were to measure that pump, it's resistance would be that of a bit of wire. Ohms law would suggest many many amps. It's only the magnetic fields set up within the motor that limit current flow. As you switch on, and there is no movement, you get beyond 15a. Perhaps way way beyond. I don't know for sure the type of motor in use but it's why I went with a fuel pump relay. They are for motors and a critical part.
A contactor is where we turn to switch heavy loads. They really don't cost much more and are just the same to wire up. Only the mechanics behind whats happening change.

 

[f-e]

Oh.. the overkill option looks easy. 200 amp relay ffs...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

 

[Swamp Thang]

I better read it all again if you want to reference it. I do smoke a bit you know..

The relay seems fine at a glance. However not all 180w loads are equal. 180w of spotlights are must easier to switch than 180w of pump motor. This is why the type of load is usually specified when giving switchgear a rating. Without an indication, we presume type 1, a resistive load. The pump will require some derating of that 40a and there is no fixed rule. So the relay doesn't actually give a specification with regards to switching a pump.

If you were to measure that pump, it's resistance would be that of a bit of wire. Ohms law would suggest many many amps. It's only the magnetic fields set up within the motor that limit current flow. As you switch on, and there is no movement, you get beyond 15a. Perhaps way way beyond. I don't know for sure the type of motor in use but it's why I went with a fuel pump relay. They are for motors and a critical part.
A contactor is where we turn to switch heavy loads. They really don't cost much more and are just the same to wire up. Only the mechanics behind what's happening change.

Bearing in mind your advice to ensure that any relay I use is rated for current capacity well in excess of the current rating that theoretical calculations might suggest, I tracked down a good deal on 80 amp relays complete with sockets and leads, going for the affordable price of $20 to buy four of them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I now have enough alternate part selections to make possible a fair bit of testing with the pump connected, before actually taking the finished product out into the wilderness.

F-E your willingness to share insider knowledge about irrigation pump wiring, is much appreciated. I'll be sure and describe which combination of pump, relay and 12VDC timer, works best for my fully autonomous solar-powered guerilla irrigation project. Can't wait for that slow boat from China to anchor, bearing aboard all the parts I ordered online.

 

[f-e]

Good luck with it pal. It will be interesting to see what you put together. You are certainly putting in some effort. I expect to see a phone on a charger before long, set to auto-answer calls from skype friends, so you can see if it's all still there

 

[Swamp Thang]

Stumbled on this ingenious design for a floating barrel water pump with only one moving part, that can lift water up to 25 feet above the river's water level.

This water pump is completely silent, durable, and capable of pumping water around the clock, for years on end without maintenance.

This barrel is tethered in the flow of rivers, where it spins slowly, due to the paddle wheels bolted at intervals along its outer circumference. As the barrel spins, water is ingested through the inlet opening of a 1-inch tube, most of which is coiled in a spiral that is fitted on the INSIDE of the barrel.

The other end of the spiral coiled tubing is connected via a "T" junction, to the hollow axle that runs through the center of the barrel. The result is that a spurting flow of water and air bubbles, is expelled from the axle of the floating drum pump, which in turn is connected via a free-rotating, waterproof connector, known as a Banjo connector, to a long hose that delivers that water uphill, at a rate that amounts to several hundred gallons a day. Next below is the link showing the free-spinning, fluid retaining Banjo connector.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Banjo-100B...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

This is a tried and tested water pumping device that was first invented in 1746, and is also known as the Wirtz Pump, or Spiral Pump. There are several variants on the theme, but from my research, this floating barrel configuration is by far the most portable, durable, compact, and concealable of ALL similar contraptions I have studied online.

With this floating drum pump, any stealth weed gardener that is fortunate enough to be within 100 yards of a flowing stream that is at least one foot deep, can set up a silent, non-stop irrigation pump that completely eliminates the need for noisy motorized water pumps, or worse still, lugging kegs of water over distances through rough terrain. Burying the long water supply hose, will render this entire setup practically invisible, save for the points at which the water drips unto the roots of the guerilla crop at a user-adjustable flow rate, continuously.

In short, this floating barrel pump is God's Gift to the guerrilla gardener. All that is needed is a flowing river within shouting distance of your crop, and this concept will supply a constant stream of water that can even then be regulated with a battery-powered timer valve at the garden outlet end of the supply hose.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Programmab...ter-Timer-W0S7/143672963842?ssPageName=STRK%3 AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872. m2749.l2649

Here is a Youtube video on this subject, posted by a brilliant backwoods dweller, over five years ago.

https://youtu.be/rIVDgHx3XBc

The pictures copied here from an online website, detail a far more polished version of the floating barrel pump shown in the above video clip. The link to the inventor of this amazing game changer of a pump, is below.

https://organicdesign.nz/Our_water_wheel_project

 

[CrushnYuba]

I knew an sold gorilla grower that used a pump that he called a clacker. When i looked it up, they are really called hydraulic ram pumps. They use no electricity. Just moving water. Kind of cool. Check it out.

 

[Swamp Thang]

I knew an sold gorilla grower that used a pump that he called a clacker. When i looked it up, they are really called hydraulic ram pumps. They use no electricity. Just moving water. Kind of cool. Check it out.

Hello Crushn Yuba, I had seen references to the ram pump on youtube, and just now I did go back and look at a couple of animated videos showing how ram pumps work, but the manufacture of those devices does require a fair bit of machine shop work.

The other drawback to a ram pump in my area, is that the flowing river in my neck of the woods passes through relatively flat countryside, which does not offer the dramatic water drop that a ram pump would need.

I was drawn back to the floating barrel coiled hose pump, because it only requires a hand drill and jig saw to fabricate, and the parts, comprising a plastic drum, 50 feet of 1-inch hose, and some lengths of plastic pipe, are dead cheap, and affordable for a tightwad back woods dweller like me.

Now there are a few versions of the spiral pump that do get rather complex and costly to fabricate, with one manufactured version called the Barsha pump, which is built atop a floating pontoon, running nearly 2 grand $USD, so it is good to know that the same concept can be put to work with a much cheaper and easy to make version, shown in my earlier posts here.

 

[f-e]

I looked at such things for power generation. I have a friend just above a weir so had fast water over it's edge and a drop. It wouldn't work though, which is why boats have wind and solar.

It's not fit and forget. The youtube one works but his water is so fast it's producing 6" of foam. Listen to it. It's shallow water feeding it which acts like a filter. What does come it kinda climbs over he says. His design is strong unlike the guttering version which guides sticks in between the gutters and barrel. Strong as it is, he uses cheap line for when it breaks free. In a river lots of things come down. Just last week a neighbour found a full plant against the bow. Buds and all. Everything comes down there. Logs. Branches. Boats. We have a stream that regularly floods. It drains some arable land. It seems impossible the amount of sticks that get in it.

I don't think the barrel with it's little gutters would do anything in a river. What you need is a free energy device. The kind of energy that will keep you there all summer working on such a project. If nobody hear it.