ImaginaryFriend's INTERPRETATION of Delta9nxs' PASSIVE PLANT KILLERS

[ImaginaryFriend]

Yesterday, I 'transplanted' my two-of-ten-thousand cuts out of and back into the cPPKs.

I tried to rip off D9's cloning technique, without actually following his specifications. He runs at a certain PPM of FNB in the old turd-face. I decided to run some other retarded bloom formulation into coco... with less than sweet results. Anyway, they were only half filled with media, and set up recap with the tops... blah... blah... blah.

Yesterday, realizing they weren't going to go anywhere anytime soon, I popped those little girls out of their spot, filled the bottoms with semi-used totally dry coco, and dropped them back in. I added some EC 1.2 Jacks over the top, and let the wick take care of itself.

Roots are already running into the new coco (they are rooted in clear Sterlite containers). More interesting (to me) is the 'white fuzzy' hairs that are supposed to be feeder hairs (according to some arrogant sources whose results are less than impressive... but I trust their 'info' is derivative from some other more knowledgeably place) developed where I left an air gap between the original coco root mass and the top of the container (the container has a taper, so the same shape fails to fill all the way to the edges when the base is moved up a few inches).

Neat to see first hand the transition discussed in D9's thread about the rapid shift to air roots when a media drys out (under 12 hours reported and observed).

Yeah... I did take pics, but they turned out shitty as there is some condensation on the container.

Want to see the pics anyway?

Okay, give me a minute.

Here are two:

Where there isn't condensation is an air-gap where I was careless in transplant.

Considering they've been in clear containers their entire lives, where's the root-photo-sensitivity? Or is it really what we already know--certain root structures require certain humidity, and competing photosynthetic organisms (eg. algae) require light...

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Tester 49, (not ready)

Tester 49, (not ready)

Well, I'm comfortable saying that these ladies are not done. 45/56? Maybe 56 on this pheno... They are not crowning. In fact, my dear girl on the left is looking younger by the day. Plastic surgery? OO's observation of the Jack's Rejuvenation Phenomenon? Perpetual Sativa Influence?

Oh no.

What to do?

Wait, I know. Mix a batch of nutes, and walk away for another couple of days.

So Boring.

Can run to sixty before I get into a time crunch. Or fifty nine. Need to look at my calendar...

EDIT: This flower is from the upper canopy of these little pretty shrubs. I took it hoping it would be a fair representation of the maturity of the terminal flowers at this stage in development, so I can start to get a time line on this pheno.

 

[oldone]

Lovely bud dude, well done. And it only gets better from here on in...

Can you tell us your trich's conditions?

 

[delta9nxs]

soon. trichs look about 50% opaque but it's hard to tell without at least a 10x loupe. the trichs will keep changing slowly after harvest to a point. i like to see about 5-10% amber but don't always get that far. at this point you should think about what kind of high you want. earlier is more up, later more down. pretty buds!

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

I thought they were universally cloudy... But I may just keep looking at the same flowers closest to the door time and time again. Sometimes I think I see a hint of amber, then I convince myself that they are simply reflecting HPS. I need to look at this cut under better light. I don't really like my cheapo scope. It is awkward to use...

EDIT:

Mostly opaque under better light. At least, that's what they look like. I kinda want to get a Sherlock Holmes loop rather than jamming my eye up against this plastic P.O.S..

 

[delta9nxs]

mostly opaque? it's hard to see from photos. maybe it's time for a smoke test. you don't have a 10x loupe? i use one of these. great for pest too.

http://www.scientificsonline.com/illuminated-coddington-magnifiers-9642.html

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

I've got one of those $15 Radio Shack style microscopes... Black plastic jobs that have a little light beside the lense...Have to push it against the flowers and then try to hold it still while I bring things into focus with a little plastic disc.

Better than nothing.

But not much better.

Looking through this P.O.S., when the trichs first develop they are clear. Then the glans start to cloud over. And then they shift from white to amber. Right now, the all of the heads that I see are cloudy, rather than clear... But I get so damn frustrated using the 'scope that I'm probably not paying enough attention.

Still, no real rush. Yet.

The retarded part is that the girl on the left is reverse-crowning--that it, her hairs seemed to be browning off in a higher percentage than the new growth but now the percentage has changed.

We'll just keep watching, I guess...

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

I've reconsidered.

Now I'm scared.

What if they grow forever.

On OO's thread, someone piped up and said, "Yo. Oldone. You have to starve The Bitch to death if you want her to finish."

Shit... What if I have to do that?

Perpetual Sativa?

Noooooooo!

I'm just typing 'cause I'm buzzed and almost, but not quite, ready for bed.

Peace to the people.

May your gardens grow like your dreams.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

The buds fell over last night.

Sweet.

I opened the tent and said, wait, where's that bud? And then I realized the whole garden had shifted. (Day 51... good thing I didn't chop on day 49!)

The tomato cages and the training I did to them were more than sufficient to keep things away from catastrophe.

Super neat to see everything collectively hang low. Like all the limbs on both plants got just ever so heavy enough to exceed their own strength. All over night.

Cool.

EDIT:
Over on D9s thread, I was just commenting on how I wasn't confident in the inverted leaching theory. For the last couple of days I've been running straight RO out of the bulk tank... as my feeder reservoirs were a little hotter than my bulk. Well, my mathematical linearity broke down... I'm running just over .4EC in bulk, and both reservoirs are climbing from 1.5ish up to 1.6 and 1.7. Pretty cool. Inverted leaching seems to be working.

If I really wanted to test it, I'd collect a bunch of RO, pump out my feeder reservoirs, and run straight RO into them and see if I could pull out even more salt from the media...

Maybe.

But that seems like more work than I want to do...

EDIT AGAIN:
And if I was really clever, I'd have a chemical analysis done on the residual water, and be able to infer based on that analysis what the hell was going on in the root zone... did I only pull out N, P, K, cal? What?

 

[delta9nxs]

"oh, i'm so sorry your buds have outgrown the capacity of your plant to support them"

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

"oh, i'm so sorry your buds have outgrown the capacity of your plant to support them"

Sounds familiar, but who would say such a thing?

Anyway, the inverted leaching goes on.

I've been running straight RO (about 10 gallons so far) out of the bulk reservoir. As I started adding directly to a mixed nute batch, I'm still sitting around EC .3ish.

When I did my initial design, I put my pump and float valve in the same res. D9 recomended that I put them in opposite reservoirs, so that my pump would pull the fresh solution from the float valve into the other bucket. That may have been a very good piece of advice that I overlooked.

At lights off today, I was checking EC in the feeder reservoirs. Yesterday, the res that receives the bulk nutrient directly was sitting around 1.7, but today was down around 1.6. The other feeder res was 1.7+. Both were low on solution, as my float valve seems unable to keep up with the solution up take (I have to work it a bit to ever get it past a slow drip; this will be replaced in the next build out). So during lights out, the bulk res will slowly refill the two feeder reservoirs... and I'm guessing that the inverted leaching will continue.

There is some yellowing in the shade leaves. (And a just a hint of purple undertone in the flowers.) I do not know if this genetic naturally shows senescence, or if the fact that I haven't been feeding any N for the last few days is causing N migration.

There's a super cool thread on this over in the organic soil section... Yellowing is not necessarily a lack of N.

If this sudden yellowing of the leaves is related to me not feeding them, then it would suggest that the increase in EC in the feeder reservoirs might be unused salts from my experiments in imbalanced feed regimes. I really should try and figure out what is in there...

Either way, a lot of the shade leaves are starting to look like shit.

I believe I have some kind of fungus associated with this plant. When leaves are really weak, it seems to manifest. It is dark and splotchy and crunchy.

 

[delta9nxs]

Sounds familiar, but who would say such a thing?

Anyway, the inverted leaching goes on.

I've been running straight RO (about 10 gallons so far) out of the bulk reservoir. As I started adding directly to a mixed nute batch, I'm still sitting around EC .3ish.

When I did my initial design, I put my pump and float valve in the same res. D9 recomended that I put them in opposite reservoirs, so that my pump would pull the fresh solution from the float valve into the other bucket. That may have been a very good piece of advice that I overlooked.

At lights off today, I was checking EC in the feeder reservoirs. Yesterday, the res that receives the bulk nutrient directly was sitting around 1.7, but today was down around 1.6. The other feeder res was 1.7+. Both were low on solution, as my float valve seems unable to keep up with the solution up take (I have to work it a bit to ever get it past a slow drip; this will be replaced in the next build out). So during lights out, the bulk res will slowly refill the two feeder reservoirs... and I'm guessing that the inverted leaching will continue.

There is some yellowing in the shade leaves. (And a just a hint of purple undertone in the flowers.) I do not know if this genetic naturally shows senescence, or if the fact that I haven't been feeding any N for the last few days is causing N migration.

There's a super cool thread on this over in the organic soil section... Yellowing is not necessarily a lack of N.

If this sudden yellowing of the leaves is related to me not feeding them, then it would suggest that the increase in EC in the feeder reservoirs might be unused salts from my experiments in imbalanced feed regimes. I really should try and figure out what is in there...

Either way, a lot of the shade leaves are starting to look like shit.

I believe I have some kind of fungus associated with this plant. When leaves are really weak, it seems to manifest. It is dark and splotchy and crunchy.

nitrate is the most mobile element and will display it's absence first in the situation where all major elements are cut off simultaneously. this is closely followed by P and K. the rest are almost inconsequential at end of flower. you are still flushing unused salts but finding out about it at this point is not going to help much if you run the next one with jack's only.

1.7 ec in the res of a finishing hydro plant is not very much. all this flushing began with soil growers who were, of necessity, allowing their mediums to dry out between waterings, thereby concentrating salts.

pics or it didn't happen! theriously, though, what do they look like now?

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

you are still flushing unused salts but finding out about it at this point is not going to help much if you run the next one with jack's only.

I agree about the general uselessness of a current analysis if I run jacks only next run. I have decent enough records of my 'formulas' that I could conceivably break it all down and run the numbers. If I did have the 'runoff' analyzed and things were super crazy, I could try and figure out the source of the insanity. (Crazy being the entire EC begin made up of only iron and manganese or something equally absurd.)

What I am liking is the implication that inverse leaching is functioning. If this is true, there might be some value in larger reservoirs (i.e. more stable systems), and the implication of the use of an occasional 'passive' flush. (Run RO for a couple of days straight, let trending towards equilibrium move out any excess unused (i.e. imbalanced) salts, pump out feeder reservoirs, start new Jacks...

Of course, we are hoping that Jacks is a well balanced nute program, and your current results seem to confirm that (at least for your ST4 pheno).

I've been slack with the photos because I'm afraid they will not show the ladies in the most flattering light... although, I suppose this 'late' in flower, it might not be so wrong to see some crappy foliage. I'm just embarrassed by the burns that I created, and how much worse they look as the plants are finishing up. Really, I don't want to show how unpretty this phase of growth is. But, if you call me out a second time, I'll take some shots.

Bulky flowers. Much larger diameter than I anticipated... There is some almost-foxtailing going on--that is, some separation in the terminal flowers. But this is consistent with the other green-pheo FLOs I've seen (online). Pretty satisfied. I may let them run to sixty.

I've been taking 'sample' cuts every couple of days, so I should have a decent record of the changing in effects for the next run, and know a little closer about when I might want to harvest.

Are you thinking I should be using nutes in my addbacks to bulk for the last week here? Or just keep watching where the EC trends towards?

 

[oldone]

good evening gentlemen,

I've been slack with the photos because I'm afraid they will not show the ladies in the most flattering light... <snip>... But, if you call me out a second time, I'll take some shots.

The day 49 pics were great. Are you using a different cameras? I think that your grow pics are just washed out by the hps. Are you using a flash?

Oh and you're called...make with the pics....

I've been taking 'sample' cuts every couple of days

So how does she smoke?

see ya,
OO

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Stems are still bendy wet from the first sample, so probably not particularly well just yet...

Same camera... just not in close proximity to 1200W HPS... I might have done a little white balancing on a cheapo editor... In fact, I think I did.

Pics within 24 hours...

 

[delta9nxs]

“What I am liking is the implication that inverse leaching is functioning. If this is true, there might be some value in larger reservoirs (i.e. more stable systems), and the implication of the use of a 'passive' flush. (Run RO for a couple of days straight, let trending towards equilibrium move out any excess unused (i.e. imbalanced) salts, pump out feeder reservoirs, start new Jacks...”

ph and ec tend to equalize throughout any hydro system. It happens on a slow curve in a ppk. You can “steer” the solution by adjusting concentration. What you want to watch for in any change of ec are rapid ph swings of more than .2. This is actually used by some growers at the end of flower to intentionally cause nutrient lockout but is a bad idea any other time.

“Of course, we are hoping that Jacks is a well balanced nute program, and your current results seem to confirm that (at least for your ST4 pheno).”

do a whole grow with jack's at ec 1.5 and you won't have any of these issues.

“I've been slack with the photos because I'm afraid they will not show the ladies in the most flattering light... although, I suppose this 'late' in flower, it might not be so wrong to see some crappy foliage. I'm just embarrassed by the burns that I created, and how much worse they look as the plants are finishing up. Really, I don't want to show how unpretty this phase of growth is. But, if you call me out a second time, I'll take some shots.”

don't worry about it. It is almost impossible to get to harvest without a few damaged leaves. we push the plants so hard indoors. Defoliation makes them look like shit.

“Bulky flowers. Much larger diameter than I anticipated... There is some almost-foxtailing going on--that is, some separation in the terminal flowers. But this is consistent with the other green-pheo FLOs I've seen (online). Pretty satisfied. I may let them run to sixty.”

you're getting a glimpse of the genetic potential of your plant. Your lights are strong enough to produce real weight.

“I've been taking 'sample' cuts every couple of days, so I should have a decent record of the changing in effects for the next run, and know a little closer about when I might want to harvest.”

yep

“Are you thinking I should be using nutes in my addbacks to bulk for the last week here? Or just keep watching where the EC trends towards?”

at this point, since you have already started flushing with ro, you should probably just continue flushing. It's really difficult to know what's in your system because of the grow history. But next time just feed them 1.5 all the way through.

The other thing I was going to mention is that this is a good time for a complete DF. With one week left your buds will noticeably swell and gain weight from it.

Watch that humidity!

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

I think humidity is fine.

I'm okay with the defoliation idea, as I have to start getting these leaves off anyway.

I'm going to string up a couple of the heaviest leaners, pull some leaves, and then update with pics as promised.

 

[oldone]

Have you tried forcing the camera to flash? It works for me...

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Fuck it, live and learn

Fuck it, live and learn

Flash is forced, but doesn't do much compared to the 1200W of HPS light...

I had a little better results shielding the HIDs, but it is still yellow.

Here you can see the flowers that have collapsed behind the tube of light:

I probably take more pics of this flower than any other... she is so accessible:

There it is.

I saw an amber head today... just one... and it was broken off it's stalk. Oh well.

I think I'm gong to start a progressive harvest in three or four days, starting with terminals, to try and let the inner material that I failed to thin catch a few extra days of light. The extra time on the stem might help a quality little and will stretch the trim over a few more days. I'd rather do five days with a couple hours of focused effort than try and process everything all at once.

I tried to anticipate so much of what was going to happen in this grow. I made a real effort to prevent the canopy from creating a wall directly beside the lights, but failed miserably in that regard. Had a been much more aggressive with my preliminary training and thinning, I am pretty sure I would have had a much more symmetrical flower development. Not to reducing the percentage of flowers I lost to light burn.

Fuck it, live and learn.

 

[delta9nxs]

upon seeing your pics i don't see a lot of fan leaves with petioles showing so DF'ing again will probably be of limited value. might help some.

they are very close and if they are mostly opaque as you say you might start taking some of the bigger ones closest to the lights.

your plant may not ever "crown" if it has a heavy sativa influence.