Im no electician but i need one any thoughts?

[imnotcrazy]

EXACTLY, it may not necessarily trip..... BUT THE WIRE WILL GET HOT, possibly causing a fire. If you guys who OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER want to give the advice... It's up to the listener to take that advice. WE give the proper advice because we don't want to see your house/apartment burn to the ground. Besides having no home, you'll be almost GUARNETEED to be busted for an ILLEGAL activity. Unless you plan to remain in a buring building in order to remove all evidence of your grow while the flames engulf your building.


I'd say the Electricians on the boards who happily share their advice and experience trying to help other growers out, while at the same time keeping you in compliance with the National Electrical Code are goin to be anyone's best bet for electrical advice.

Would you let some guy in the street operate on you medically?....... I didn't think so

BTW DB2004, those timer boards are more than likly a 4 wire circuit, 2 hots a ground and neutral. the 120V loads are balanced between the 2 hot legs and the Ballasts are running off of 220-240V. That would be my guess as I havnt seen them. Besides UL listings and Nat'l Elec. Code and two SEPERATE entities ENTIRELY. What may be good for UL listing could get an electrical service or installation failed on inspection.

 

[Pops]

If you folks don't listen to Cocktail and imnotcrazy, you are the crazy ones. These guys are pros.I would take their advice anytime. I would even listen to Soilman, even though he is a redneck from Florida.

I had a similar problem in setting up a grow. I put a 100 amp breaker box in my garage, which would allow me to run 10 dedicated lines, should I ever need that much. You have to have a 200amp service to be able to do this. You also need to be careful to size the wires to your needs. Do not buy the cheapest and smallest, but the best one for the need. These guys are just trying to keep you from burning your house down.

 

[cocktail frank]

LOL pops, seems you have soilman's number.
what you people need to under stand, kinda like what INC said, is that something that is UL listed falls under a diff jurisdiction from work performed.
any work done in your home or grow area should be safe!!!!
why fuck around and wind up moving to a 4'x8' cell?
plain dumb if you ask me.
the few educated people here, myself including, are here to try and help you folks.
you can listen, or take our advice with a grain of salt.
to be quite honest with all of you, do whatever you want in your own homes.
i dont care what happens, i know my grow won't burn down.
would you have your local bus driver do your taxes for you because he thinks he knows how to get it done?
what works for one guy might not for the next.
to be honest, i think anybody that runs 2k of 1 20a breaker is very lucky that nothing bad has happened yet.
but what happens when you play with fire?
eventually you get burnt.

please read the link in my sig about electrical safety if you have a few minutes, it might clear up some things for you.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

not to be rude?
but why not just run a 240V drop and a 120V drop.
or ...
use your existing 120 for pumps/fans etc. and a 240 for lights, thats alot fo wire to run that many 120 circuits it sounds cheaper if u use a 240. less wire less time for the sparky. plus its less amps and you could get away with a double 30 or a single 50A

ive got double 15Amp 240 w/7200W max on the line (6000 with a 'cushion')

you really want a amp cussion on thelines (no 19/20 amp circuits) the prevent high heat on the wire.

 

[DB2004]

Are you saying I don't know what I'm talking about. I have a degree in EE. Stranded copper wire will allow slightly more current than solid copper. It will not cause a fire and the wire will get a little warm , maybe 25 degrees Celcius. It is allowed by code in Canada. Different countries have different standards for code requirements and safety. Don't be saying I DON'T know what I'm talking about. I guess people shouldn't use hair dryers rated for 1500W on a circuit with other devices that are on, may cause a fire.


DB2004

 

[Guest]

There is a little something called continuous load not being discussed here.I know all the layman love to say dont load your circuit over 80% without knowing why lol.Well its because the NFPA finds it prudent and the NEC makes it mandatory!!A continuous load is any load energized for three hours or more in a 24 hour period,the actual numbers may have changed I'm old school but you get the idea?You want to listen to DB and Sea of Green over the National Fire Protection agency and violate the National Electric Code have a happy. Soooo many fly by night manufacturers in this world DB,you'd trust yourself to one?I'll listen to the NFPA and go by the NEC

 

[DB2004]

Like I said, different countries have their own standards, the NEC refers to the US, not Canada. Then there is the type of wire, solid or stranded, copper or aluminum. Depends if the wire is "open air" (hook-up wire) or if it's in a bundle. 12 AWG can handle 25 amps if used as hook-up wire.

 

[Guest]

You're correct and in the NEC it also states 14 wire can handle 20A 12 wire 25-30 amps 10 wire 35-40 amps,at least in the 86 code lol.There is also an asterik next to those numbers and when you go to the bottom you see 14 MUST be fused with a 15A OC device and 12 MUST be fused with a 20A and 10 MUST befused with a 30A,actually the word is "shall" and means its mandatory.Regardless of the ampacity of these three wire sizes they "shall" be fused accordingly in branch circuits.Theres a reason for that bro.

 

[imnotcrazy]

Soilman: You may have missed it, but I mentioned the Continuous Load rule stipulation on Page 1 of the thread. You are ABSOULTLEY CORRECT though, the 80% rule is ONLY for Continuous Loads (3 or more hours/ 24 hour period).

From This Thread Page # 1:

You'd probably be better to run a sub panel off one larger 40-60A breaker to where you what to plug in your lights..Also you'd definitly be better off runnin those ballasts @ 220V


The reason they say 1 1000W per 20A breaker is: 1000W pulls 9-9.5A @ 120V, by code (and for safety's sake) you are only supposed to pull 80% of a breakers rated load IF the load is considered CONTINUOUS. Continuous meaning if the appliance/motor/etc is turned on for more than 3 hours per day. Your lights will be 12/12hr I'm certain so you dont want to pull more than 16A per 20A breaker.

DB2004: You can have all the EE experience you want, shit I have 3 Associates Degrees in Electrical, Electronics and Computer Engineering. So go right ahead and toot your horn. That STILL doesn't make your advice correct, ESPECIALLY if Blunted22 is located in the US. ALSO, as per NEC if the run is longer that a specified length, you are REQUIRED to DERATE the wire size, meaning go to the next larger size/next lower # AWG/MCM wire to compensate for the inherent resistance in that length of wire.

 

[cocktail frank]

i'm glad you have your degree and you should be proud man.
but when EE walk on our jobs, we usually pick em up by the seam of their pants and send em on their way.
pretty much anything an EE draws up for a job goes right out the window.
there is a BIG difference between how something works and how to get it done properly.
no offense man.

 

[Guest]

He didnt mean that DB,but why do you guys put circuits 1,3 and 42 all in the same area on the print lol?You know I'm just jivin,all electricians in the field fuck with the engineers lol.Maybe partly out of jealousy,maybe partly outta they dont know WTF they're doin half the time lol

 

[imnotcrazy]

See of Green: If you used Romex/BX/MC/service entrance cable, it IS NOT considered "Open Air" regardless of the fact that the cable is exposed outside of walls. It still receives the same ratings through N.E.C. which is 80% of Overcurrent Protective Device (Fuse or Circuit Breaker) Rating when the load is CONTINUOUS.

 

[Blunted22]

OK so since this is my post lets get this issue strait for me real quick. I live in the US. I want shit done correctly. I want to have a max of 10 1000's all in the basement. So what i need to do is call a sparky tell him i want a 100a sub panel installed.

He will do this without hesitation and will use all the correct wires and what not like it should be. This subpanel will have all the plugs for all the lights? or will the plugs be scattered where i want them? (iguess im not sure how a subpanel looks/works)

This will cost me no more then 300$

simple as that?

 

[Guest]

Dont tell me of your obvious inexperience,inc just explained in the plainest of english whats up.I hope the others here can discriminate between people trying to assist and people trying to impress...People that go by code are trying to assist..

 

[Pops]

Blunted, your sub panel merely feeds electricity from the main panel to the sub panel. It has no plugs. Instead, you can put several breakers in that box and run wiring from that box to where ever you want your plugs. I am not an electrician, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn express once.

 

[Blunted22]

Lol pops so if i have enough free room on the main breakers i dont need a subpanel? cuase if i get a subpanel ill still have install multiple breakers/wires/plugs?

What about 40 or 60a breakers being installed? can i get more then 2 of those perhaps 4 to 6? i guess im still confused.

 

[imnotcrazy]

Blunted: Adding a sub panel just makes the whole job easier by allowing you to add multiple feeders from a single supply feed. Basically you want to rate the subpanel large enough so that you won't ever need to upgrade.

From that point, you take your branch circuits , either fused or circuit breaker protected and run them wherever you want. If you are comfortable running 120/220-240V branch circuits (it's fairly easy in an unfinished basement, and soilman, cocktail_frank of myself would be happy to assist. I know I would and they are friendly, knowledgeable guys also.). Just ensure you use the proper sized wire to run these branch circuits.

If your uncomfortable doin it yourself, just show the electrician where you want the outlets located and he'll be happy to put them wherever you would want I'm sure.

Edit: Yeah if you have room in the main panel to add all the branch circuits, you can pull multiple circuits from that panel. It's just sooooo much easier to pull the one feeder form the main panel and place a subpanel. once you have the sub in place you pull your lighting/equipment power from there.

PLUS, the added benefit of having a subpanel is you will have 120/240V power by installing only one branch circuit coming off the main panel. If you were to pull all the power for this project from the main, you'd need a minimum of two runs, one for the 220-240V ballasts then a second 120V feed for pumps/fans/etc.

 

[Pops]

Blunted. I haven't bought a sub panel for quite a while, but I imagine they are $60-90. Ten breakers would cost about $90 and the wire cost depends on how long your runs are. The outlets are dirt cheap. One of the bigger costs is going to be the heavy wire going from the main panel to the sub panel. It is not cheap and will depend on how long the run is going to be. If you do it all yourself and have short wire runs, you might be able to get it done for $300, but probably not if you have to hire an electrician.

Whatever you do, don't skimp on materials, and if you have to hire a pro, remember that they are worth every penny to get it done right. It is not that hard, but it must be done right. It can't be that hard, as I have done it and my hair is still straight(what there is of it).

 

[imnotcrazy]

I notice See of Green erased his post, obviously a good thing. I'm glad others who don't know any better won't be steered in the wrong direction by misinformation.

 

[mapleboy]

How about your dryer??? Here's a diagram to use your dryer plug as a DUAL plug setup.. I've done mine like this for YEARS and since the lights run during a time I dont NEED the dryer, NEVER an issue.
MB