Ideas For Keeping Pot Prices from Deflating Rapidly

[binaryfission]

@baba ku - why is it not?

did you read any of the links? Do you understand that terroir applies to a myriad of other products? That it is more than wine. It is about the locality, and anything that in said locality that can be seen as providing a "uniqueness." Whether that be the mold in a cave (cheese), the increased frequency of hazelnuts (jamón ibérico de bellota), or even the way the cows are pampered and fed beer (kobe beef). SO granted i could make some good cheese in my house, and grow a pig and feed it hazelnuts, and i could import a wagyu cow and massage it, but they wouldn't be the same; it wouldn't be kobe beef.

Maybe you guys can't tell the difference.

My point specifically with cannabis was latitude, there are more. Care to address it; want me to quote it?
You are obviously trying to prove something.
I wish you would stop.
I'm sorry for calling you inept.
it was rude,
doesn't make it false.

@headband707 - you seem to think thc is everything. There are dozens if not hundreds of active chemicals possible in marijuana. Its about the mix of chemicals not just one. SamTheSkunkman says pure THC won't get you "high." You need the other chemicals to give the thc its nuances. Search his posts.

and if you guys think you can grow SweetTooth as well as Breeder Steve or Blueberry better than DJ Short Or a Landrace Mexican better than the farmer who bred it, then so be it. I think you are crazy, but to HeadBand's point. Maybe you can't tell.

Or maybe i just think i can. Either way, in a legal market i hope one day to purchase these products. TOm Hill's Haze grown by him, outdoors in NorCal. Same for Sam's Skunk(s) OR any number of landrace "varietals."

They won't be the same in your back yard, IMO.

l8r

 

[Baba Ku]

You are sorry for being rude, but that doesn't make it false?
Look, I would just as soon you said; "fuck you", instead of apologizing with a qualifier.

I am tired of discussing the wild speculations and irrational logic that often gets used by the very young and highly impressionable. They often turn to the personal attack when confronted with any truth or reality that puts a damper on their wild thoughts and concerns. Just bringing into question something such a person cooks up will often lead to a rude and fruitless confrontation.

Kids hate being told their hair brain schemes won't work. And anyone doing so will be marked as their enemy. Seems that sort of thing is common practice with the youth of today. It was the same back in the day too, but kids had a bit more respect for others in those days and didn't tend to pop off wise-ass to anyone that disagrees with them. Today they could give a rats toss what others think, as long as they aren't disagreed with. Youth of today tend to call folks who disagree with anything they think, haters...when the truth is they practice hate on a regular basis, and probably don't really know what the word really means. They obviously think that to disagree with a person is to hate.
So, the mean and nasty words come out in their debates. Taking place of logic and true discussion. Making little rude comments such as "maybe you guys can't tell the difference?" lol...as if.

 

[binaryfission]

You are sorry for being rude, but that doesn't make it false?
Look, I would just as soon you said; "fuck you", instead of apologizing with a qualifier.

I am tired of discussing the wild speculations and irrational logic that often gets used by the very young and highly impressionable. They often turn to the personal attack when confronted with any truth or reality that puts a damper on their wild thoughts and concerns. Just bringing into question something such a person cooks up will often lead to a rude and fruitless confrontation.

Kids hate being told their hair brain schemes won't work. And anyone doing so will be marked as their enemy. Seems that sort of thing is common practice with the youth of today. It was the same back in the day too, but kids had a bit more respect for others in those days and didn't tend to pop off wise-ass to anyone that disagrees with them. Today they could give a rats toss what others think, as long as they aren't disagreed with. Youth of today tend to call folks who disagree with anything they think, haters...when the truth is they practice hate on a regular basis, and probably don't really know what the word really means. They obviously think that to disagree with a person is to hate.
So, the mean and nasty words come out in their debates. Taking place of logic and true discussion. Making little rude comments such as "maybe you guys can't tell the difference?" lol...as if.

i'm sure you are a great parent.
Want to respond to anything that's been said? All you have done is take the argument into this "woe is me; baba ku the victim" arena. Its sad. We are on the internet. You can't just demand people use manners. If you don't like it you have the choice to leave; To go elsewhere, on the internet. Crying on the internet, is close behind arguing on the internet in the list of pointless things you can do. I'm not trying to attack you, but i will be honest. Equating fair trade to the barter system is ridiculous. (still no response on that one.......????)

Are you really this disturbed by some "harsh words" on the internet? Are you really so concerned with being the internet manners police? Write me a ticket officer....

The way i see it, if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. You can call me a child all you want; I apologized for being rude and sharing my thoughts. Somethings are better left unsaid; doesn't make them false and you've showed it with your inability to talk about anything presented to you. Instead you just change the subject and cry about your feelings. smh.

On not tasting the difference, I stand by this. You don't buy expensive anything if you can't taste/feel/appreciate the difference. Apparently you guys can't, or you don't think the difference is worth the money. Its understandable i just don't agree.

Care to answer the Latitude argument, Officer?

Or Talk about terroir as being more than about wine? want to comment on that instead of whining about how i hurt your feelings?

or just explain why the barter system could even be "misconstrued" as fair trade? This was the original point and you've ran from it to get your Internet Manners Police uniform.

I've never seen someone bellyache so hard over so little. I pity you.

 

[Baba Ku]

You dismissed the points I already brought up.

And on latitude, what exactly are you asking? Are you trying to say that the same pot grown at different latitudes will yield differences, all other aspects being equal? My thoughts on this would be this is simply more thought, and not much at all to substantiate such a theory. Surely anyone with a bit of experience will realize that trying to grow tropical sativa at 60N outdoors will run into issues?

I am sure that you have a much more refined palate that anyone else in here.
lol....
Have you actually smoked colombian gold that came from colombia? I have. How about panama red, that actually came from panama? I have. How about pre-paraquat mexican? I have. Would you know the difference in taste and high between mexican gold and colombian gold? I do. You ever read a mary janes garden? I have.
And you do realize that borders are a block that has been, and will always be in place? I'm sure a one world free for all would be a nice thing, but it aint reality.

Also, sounds to me like you actually buy pot. I haven't bought pot in years and years. I really have to ask friends to even know what it costs these days. And one thing I can guarantee you...there is no pot in the local market that can touch ol baba ku's weed. It aint happening. lol... It's actually a security risk for myself to break out my weed in mixed company.

Markets are another aspect to consider...one market may buy the terrior bullshit, as certain markets tend to buy things when others won't. But other markets will scoff at such silly stuff, and spend their coin elsewhere.
After all, it is all marketing anyway. It really has nothing to do with the real deal.
The real deal, BTW, can be found here in the pages of ICMag.

What are you going to do, move to lebenon and grow some red leb so you can sell it at top dollar? And do you realize just how diverse a landrace population is? If you were to market a consistent weed, it would have to be worked. And one work can vary from another work, when both are done in the same soil, in the same plot. Do you grasp any of what I am trying to say?

 

[binaryfission]

You just don't get it.

Pot grown in a valley and pot grown on a mountain will produce different pot; the angle of the sun being the first difference. This is the latitutde. NorCal and France's wine growing regions same latitude. This is the terroir. All the minute differences. This is the point. More differentiation is better for the plant, the producer and the consumer. Protecting plant biodiversity is also huge benefit to this type of system.

And do you realize just how diverse a landrace population is? If you were to market a consistent weed, it would have to be worked. And one work can vary from another work, when both are done in the same soil, in the same plot. Do you grasp any of what I am trying to say?

They are worked. the locals have been working them for years on their own land; I want each individuals local herb from his own plot to marketed as such. (Like small batch whiskey. I want to know which barrel it came from.) Of course there is subtle variation, if growing from seed. Of course phenotypes differ, different local might be growing different strains. But check the hash threads. People still are able to tell the difference between Moroccan, or Nepali, or Paki, or whatever. If the individual fields,used to make the hash, were marketed individually there would be even more variety. Even more that separates a good Maroc from Nepali or Red Leb. Why can't we have South Lebanon Blonde, Moroc from the Rif or from Ketama; why can't we be more specific with point of origin than less. Eventually it will be Maroc from the Southern Rif and then Maroc from ALi Baba's farm on High street in the Village of BestHashish located in the RIF. Have you ever seen the variety of apples available? They are all pretty similar, but they include where they were grown. Great link: The Botany of Desire Talks about how Apples, Potato's, Tulips and of course Marijuana were influenced by humans, from the plants perspective.

You think its marketing and fake.
I think its marketing and extremely valuable to the educated consumer and the local businesses concerned with preserving their culture.

lets just agree to disagree. You obviously are trying to prove something and i'm not into ego games. So my bad for offending you. My bad for using a qualifier. My bad for being young and abrasive.

Lastly, i grasp everything you have said i just don't agree. If you want me to pat you on the butt while i tell you so... well that's not me. Get your Mom or your wife to pad your ego. You came to this thread making bold claims about fair trade and the barter system being identical. This is clearly false by any metric and you have not given any reason to believe otherwise. For all intensive purposes you have thrown a temper tantrum because someone on the internet called you inept. You never responded to the core of the argument; your false statements. Instead you made it a personal issue with me. Its sad. I pity you and hope you can get over this.


Good Day.

 

[binaryfission]

QFT

QFT

Someone asked me what I thought about Oaklands City Council selling permits for walmart factories of Cannabis. My response was that if the people of the Bay Area are really concerned about supporting their local community. Then they are going to have to stand up and refuse to buy anything produced in these warehouses.

Lets face it when Detroit made huge factories to make cars. The skilled artisans were no longer getting paid to literally handcraft beautiful cars. Lots of independent auto manufacturers were shut down. People had to choose to be unemployed or take jobs with low pay in these factories, and be glad to have a job.

They say Walmart creates jobs in the community, but that's b.s. The only ones making money are the executives and shareholders in walmart. If they could pay the employees less they would.

It will be the same thing with this. Richard Lee, Steve D'Angelo, and all their friend will make bank of this. They'll continue to donate to political campaigns. That tax money they're offering to pay, will come from what used to be the earnings of independent growers, who they're trying to put out of business. Your choice will be to work for them and I say F*** that.

I'm all about coming up with some way to identify product that is locally and independently grown with employees who were paid a decent wage. At least $20/Hr. Hand trimmed vs. Machine trimmed.

I have a machine for my littles, but I hand trim all my tops and chunky nuggets. I give away the littles to friends or I vape them myself.

If you want people to be able to buy what you are selling. Then they have to have an income that will allow them to do that. When you take capital out of the community. The result is an inability to start new business', invest in new equipment and builidings, and to reduce the overall standard of living for everyone.

When J.P Morgan pulls a $5 Billion dollar quarterly profit, how much of that goes back into the community. Very Very Little. That is money that is being pocketed and pulled out of the economy.

I think that for a while the price for indoor has gone as low as it will go. The price differential between the west and east coast, means that lots more will go back east. When that difference is narrower in scope, then we will see a further drop.

Very few business' have margins this large.

I think it will be hard to certify Vegan, Organic, sustainably produced. I do think that however one day that is exactly what we will see. I look forward to that day.

I told my friend I was going to make it so that when I produce a crop it's special. I wouldn't do it every year for sale and the nutrients would all be sourced from the land on which I have my farm and through composting, earth worms, and fermented plant extracts etc... He said "Every time you produce a crop it is special to me"

10character

 

[Baba Ku]

Latitude is not altitude, dude.

lol...be well, I'm done.

 

[binaryfission]

Latitude is not altitude, dude.

lol...be well, I'm done.

they both change the angle of light the plant receives. this is the point. think beyond the tip of your nose.

read any of DJ Short's material?

An excerpt from: Breeding Tips by DJ Short

Inducing Sativa

After many years of first-hand experience breeding herb indoors as well as outdoors, I am of the opinion that the two most influential factors involving phenotypic variation and expression among current indoor herb breeding projects are the photoperiod (hours of light per day) and the angle of light in relationship to the growing plant.

Specifically, I find the single most powerful influence to the Indica dominant phenotype is the traditional 18/6 veggie cycle and 12/12 flowering cycle. The 18/6 veggie and 12/12 flower cycle is an attempt, however poor, to mimic the Indica-producing photoperiod. It is my belief that this light cycle strongly influences for Indica phenotypic expression.

Sativa phenotype characteristics will manifest under a more equatorial photoperiod, closer to a 13/11 veggie cycle and an 11/13 flower cycle. This is the light timing range to use to elicit more Sativa dominant expression from your plants.

As for the exact photoperiod formula that I incorporate into my growing/breeding regime, this will presently remain a trade secret. My advice is to experiment with different photoperiods, keep good notes and pay attention. Avoid the 18/6 and 12/12 photoperiods, while tweaking the times a bit differently with each breeding cycle until more desirable results in the finished product and their offspring are noted. Here's a hint: work in half-hour increments or a little less, and good luck!

Angle of Light

Angle of light simply refers to the physical angle of light source the plant is dependent upon for growth. Perhaps the greatest difference between indoor and outdoor environments has to do with the angle of light received by the plant. This is also one of the greatest seasonal differences between the Sativa and Indica producing regions.

Outdoors, the main light source is the Sun, with minor influence coming from nearby reflective surfaces. As a plant grows taller and broader outdoors, that angle of light from the sun changes very little in relationship to the growing plant.

Seasonal changes in angle of light increase the further away from the equator one gets. At the equator there is the least amount of seasonal change in angle of light, only about 20°, whereas at the 45th parallel that change is as great as 45°. At the 45th latitude, the Summer Sun is high in the sky while during early Spring and late Fall the sunlight comes from much lower in the sky. The farther one goes from the equator, the greater the difference in seasonal changes regarding angle of light.

Indoors, the lights typically range from a few inches to several feet from the plant. As the plant grows taller, its physical relationship to the bulb's angle of light changes considerably. Most indoor grow rooms have relatively low ceilings, therefore, raising the bulbs may maintain a similar angle of light early on, but eventually the angle changes. The same differences may be noted among plants directly below the bulb and the plants off to the side of the room farther away from the bulb.

Circular light shuttles tend to emulate the arctic summer and create a confusing signal completely unknown to the equatorial Sativa. Straight-track overhead light shuttles are more conducive to inducing the Sativa phenotype.

check these links:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12520327

http://www.jstor.org/pss/209246

http://rparticle.web-p.cisti.nrc.ca/rparticle/AbstractTemplateServlet?calyLang=eng&journal=cjfr&volume=35&year=2005&issue=6&msno=x05-069

pictures!

http://ddr.nal.usda.gov/bitstream/10113/37968/1/IND93055775.pdf

this is my favorite. says it all in the Abstract

 

[monkeysee]

Instead of labeling it with terroir info (area where it was grown), you could label it with terror info (the horrific things I'll do to you if you don't buy my brand). That will definitely drive prices up, especially if you enforce/carry out those threats upon non-compliance. Keep in mind this will only work until you land yourself a prison term.

 

[binaryfission]

some more:
Post about Sweet Spots


another from the same thread.

Coffee Companies recognize Altitude, Location and Volcanic Soil
A quote from an excelling coffee company....

Quote:
Cole & Parks coffee is roasted by experience roasters that have mastered the art of optimizing the natural flavor profile of each origin of coffee we sell. Each batch is roasted in small amounts, with equipment that allows extraordinary control in achieving precise roast levels (specific to each origin coffee), allowing them to roast each bean so that their unique natural flavors can be experienced. The growing climate, soil, moisture, exposure to the sun, altitude, volcanic soil composition - all contribute to the flavors that are “built into” the coffee bean as it grows on its tropical evergreen shrubs.

Quote:
Volcanic Coffee - Best Coffee
After cupping coffees from around the world we have found that the best gourmet coffee is from single-source Arabica beans that originate from the slopes of volcanic mountains. The rich volcanic soil combined with the high altitude and abundant moisture from the clouds produce a remarkable coffee that cannot be matched by any other variety.

If you look at the most famous and best gourmet coffees, Jamaica Blue Mountain, Kona and Costa Rican, there is one common trait. Each of them are grown in volcanic mountain regions. Like the finest wine regions of France and Italy, the best gourmet coffee have a areas were the bean flavor thrives. The two most important aspects of the best gourmet coffee are soil and altitude.

Volcanic Soil Factors to the Best Gourmet Coffee
The hot lava that emit from volcanoes is from the center of the earth, rich in nutrients that have been formed over the centuries that have recently been brought to the surface of the earth’s crust. The nutrient deterioration is limited having not been exposed to sun and air. The lava is cooled and mixed with ash as it settles. The result is a rich soil that is the fertile host to some of the most famous tropical rain forests.

The best gourmet coffee plants are nurtured during its growth by this volcanic soil as it matures. The tropical rainforest that surround many of these coffee farms are home to many birds that feed on pests that damage the coffee plants. This natural selection is a benefit to the farmer as they do not need to rely of pesticides. In addition to the cost saving to the coffee farmer their coffee can then qualify as organic grade which they can then sell at a higher price.

High Altitude Factors Resulting in the Best Coffee
At higher elevations many different factors come together to growing the best gourmet coffee. Late afternoon cloud cover protects the coffee plants from an excessive amount of direct sunlight. The clouds contain moisture that gently waters the coffee plants through its leaves rather than through its roots.

The best gourmet coffees are mostly rated with a SHB rating, which means Strictly Hard Bean rating. The coffee bean grown at higher altitudes is much harder than those grown at lower elevations. This distinction places the coffee bean in the category of the best gourmet coffee rating on world coffee markets.

 

[el dub]

Its prolly time for me to bow out of this conversation, as I haven't bought much weed for years.

What DO I know?

I know that young kids will always have wild, hair-brained ideas fueled more by passion than reality. And I know that binaryF clearly and truly speaks from deep within the bowels of indignant righteousness.

lw

 

[localhero]

length of day in northern latitudes, uv intensity in higher altitudes, humidity, tempurature, growing medium, nute regimine, dew point, local bugs etc, taking a clone off a plant grown from seed and trying to grow it in a much different environment; those are the differences. i dont know about sun angle, unless you meant growing on a eastern facing slope vs. south or something.

 

[binaryfission]

Its just the angle of the rays in which the sun hits the planet. Planting on a hill, as opposed to a flat surface, changes the angle in which the sun hits the plants.

Think the foothills of the Hindu Kush as opposed to the flat lands of India.
or this.

 

[Baba Ku]

Yeah, all the angle business makes perfect sense...that is why I have reconfigured my garden to accommodate for the various sun angles the plants receive.
Note how all the southern hemisphere varieties are strategically placed to receive the optimum angle of sun. I am providing my own terrior by using native soils in each planter. They think they are at home!
And....I can charge about double for my pulls. Folks are actually glad to pay double when thy find out about the sun angles and all involved.
And when I tell them about how much I care about them and the plants, as opposed to my competition...who knows nothing about these advanced growing methods and really doesn't care about their customers the way I do. Hell, just the extra love I throw into the deal is worth at least a 20% markup. Don't you thin?

 

[localhero]

the biggest difference i can think of in foothills vs flat valley would be temperatures and night time humidity assuming everything else were equal. foothills tend to have more micro climates than a large flat expanse. the cool air at night will drain through the valleys of the foothills from the peaks with thermal belts in between the peaks and valleys.

the reason kushes grow well in nor cal is because their climate is similar to where those plants originated from. but try to grow out a classic equatorial sativa in the same place, or a fatty kush in the jungle--good luck. the "airier" equatorial sativa buds allow the moisture of a high humidity (jungle) environment to esape, where the big fat colas of a kush will trap that water and bud rot out. try to grow a land race sativa up north and youll run into winter frost well before the plant is finished budding- the light cycle at the equator is practically 12-12 year round and warm, so the plants have evolved to flower longer.

way too many variables besides angle of the sun. i mean the angle of the sun changes all day anyways. maybe youre confusing altitude with angle of the sun? higher altitudes have more intense uv rays which supposedly causes marijuana to build up more thc as a sort of sunblock.

 

[binaryfission]

@local hero - no one said it was the only factor. You are kinda missing the larger issue. Don't get caught up in Baba Ku trying to prove he isn't inept.


This is about terroir as whole, not just one influential factor (latitude.) You listed a majority of the environmental factors that would define a particular terroir. Good Job!!!

Thanks.

click this for a reminder about what this thread is supposed to be about.

 

[localhero]

you compared the foothills of hindu kush and the flatlands of india in respect to sun angle. im saying the terrior is the difference not sun angle.

if you are at the same latitude or general area, regardless of whether or not you are on a mountain or a plateau, the sun angle is the same. plants grow straight up and down even if they are planted upside down which is where i think you missed baba kus upside down plant pic reference. if plants grew perpendicular to the ground in which they grew, then and only then would i see sun angle playing a dominant roll of any kind- lol even then not really.

that scenario is all things being equal other than planting on a hill vs flat ie same latitude/region.

you could have a point if you are talking different latitudes. as in northern latitudes the sun is more south in the sky, hence the importance of planting on south facing slopes for maximum sun. but that has nothing to do with being on a hill or not.

 

[rick shaw]

Defeating initiatives that would legalize marijuana,or establishing a dispensary program,or even initiating a mmj program are excellent ways to keep prices high. California passing a chance to legalize. Oregon passing a chance to establish a dispensary system.S.Dakota and Arizona passing on a mmj program. It is a sad day in these four states.Prices will remain high and for some access difficult.

 

[binaryfission]

Originally we were talking about latitude.

Sun angle was brought in with the Light angle quote from DJ Short. It is more applicable indoors (altering the angle of light i mean), but it still shows how things as small as that can change the buds characteristics. Draw a simple picture. (I'm attempting to do that now.) It might be minuscule but it is different.

Latitude was the origin.

 

[250wscrogger]

Stop selling top shelf outdoors for 18-2200/lb!!??

Stop selling top shelf indoors for 3k/lb!!??

I hope you people know that the dispenseries are easily making over 50% profit at those prices...

Patients are still paying full blown retail at the dispenseries anyway...

You shouldn't even be growing weed to make a living if you're about to settle for 200/oz just because being " legal " takes all the risk out of the equation...
A lot of these people just aren't cut out for this...some people probably wouldn't be even be growing weed at all if there were any real risks involved.

200/oz for indoors is GIVING IT AWAY!

This is NOT a normal, guaranteed paycheck, 9-5 job for average people who can't handle taking risks...I hate to say it but the only people out west who make real money growing weed are the ones who are taking the risk to unload it elsewhere for 30-50% more profit instead of getting HUSTLED by the dispenseries.

If you're not hustlin, you're just doing all the work and being hustled.