ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[nomaad]

I have a question. So If I was a grower and selling commercially and wanted to get all the proper permits to go legit and pay whatever it is they want under prop 19.... would they allow an ex felon a permit. Many of the people who have been a large part of the fight in the past to keep cannibus available to all people already have felonies on their records. Just wonder where it will leave those people.

That will be up to the counties/cities as they craft ordinances governing the licensing process for their area... but there will be restrictions and many people currently growing will be excluded either because of criminal record, or lack of political clout. There will be a reshuffling of the deck.

Of course there is no sympathy amongst the YES19 camp (here on ICM, at least) for the sacrifices made and risks taken (ongoingly) by growers who might lose out on 19. They're just greedy bastards if they oppose the measure and I'm greedy for considering their perspective to bare weight in my decision-making.

 

[johnnyla]

america is a special interest owned, pluralist, corporatist mecha.

any rights or freedoms we the people have recieved since the passing of the civil rights act of 1964 have been either a by-product of a special interest goal, or trickled down to us through the court system.

19 is a great example of that. we are all trying to see how something clearly designed for the benefit of someone else will benifit us too by proxy.

you know we can all get together and pool our resources to make our own props?

voting in america to get what you want just doesnt cut it anymore. we need to be the ones who decide what gets voted on.

we need to become our own special interest group, our own lobbyists.

on a side note, i just wanna thank gaius and all the non cursing, personal insulting, im gonna run to daddy to tell on you, point making yes arguments here.

We's gots to organize!!!!

 

[gaiusmarius]

since you're one of the few people for this bill who is even remotely capable of sharing your opinion like a mensch, I'm curious to know if you think the only reason one might vote against this bill is greed and douchebaggery, or is it possible that others might have more dire concerns about the same consequences you ponder?

no i still don't see greed as the only motivator for a no vote, as i have said, i understand that this thing ain't perfect, there might well be some surprises, we just have to hope they are not too dreadful and can be corrected. the problem as i'm beginning to see it is not passing it might well be even worse for us, emboldening our enemies to attack the medical rules. while passing it will help the majority of recreational cannabis users and send a clear signal to the powers that be.

to be honest i'm a bit disappointed that folks can't stay calm and discuss this issue without attacking each other.

i'm still hoping for a write up of a legal experts legal opinion of every point in this prop 19, even if it has to pass, it'd be good to know the exact consequences according to some one versed in legal mumbo jumbo.

 

[nomaad]

We's gots to organize!!!!

better yet, just raise money and hire lobbyists.

 

[krunchbubble]

I have a question. So If I was a grower and selling commercially and wanted to get all the proper permits to go legit and pay whatever it is they want under prop 19.... would they allow an ex felon a permit. Many of the people who have been a large part of the fight in the past to keep cannibus available to all people already have felonies on their records. Just wonder where it will leave those people.

not 100% sure. but i was talking to someone about setting one of these up, not in Oakland, but another city that is about to do the same thing as Oakland.
the person is a felon and he said they don't or wont allow felons to set these up. im a felon as well, so the idea went poof!

very good concern though, didn't think about that one.....

 

[krunchbubble]

no i still don't see greed as the only motivator for a no vote, as i have said, i understand that this thing ain't perfect, there might well be some surprises, we just have to hope they are not too dreadful and can be corrected. the problem as i'm beginning to see it is not passing it might well be even worse for us, emboldening our enemies to attack the medical rules. while passing it will help the majority of recreational cannabis users and send a clear signal to the powers that be.

to be honest i'm a bit disappointed that folks can't stay calm and discuss this issue without attacking each other.

i'm still hoping for a write up of a legal experts legal opinion of every point in this prop 19, even if it has to pass, it'd be good to know the exact consequences according to some one versed in legal mumbo jumbo.

perfect post.....

 

[nomaad]

to be honest i'm a bit disappointed that folks can't stay calm and discuss this issue without attacking each other.

i'm still hoping for a write up of a legal experts legal opinion of every point in this prop 19, even if it has to pass, it'd be good to know the exact consequences according to some one versed in legal mumbo jumbo.

Absolutely. Specifically, I'd like to see some more debate of the Myths and Facts post from earlier in the thread. The rebuttal was weak, but obviously it was a rush counterpoint to the original blog post... I;d like to see a more polished rebuttal. Does anybody know the original sources for those posts?

Props for taking part in the discussion going on at the adult table.

 

[JJScorpio]

Of all the lame-ass posts made in this thread, this one wins the blue ribbon. Congrats on raising the bar!

If you think you'll find any of the Administrators of this site that will agree with your voting the same as Law Enforcment on this Bill you're sadly mistaken.

Gypsy founded this site on the principle of wanting everyone to be able to grow and smoke worldwide without fear of incarceration and arrest. Now it seems it's come to medical marijuana suppliers using this site as a platform to argue to keep marijuana illegal in Cali so they can continue to profit. Your crew is more worried about Richard Lee than you are the millions of people that could benefit by this law being passed.

Who gives a shit about Richard Lee, or for that fact any of you people that would want to see this Bill fail for the sake of greed? I sure don't. And to be honest, it disgusts me. And if you don't like it, that's to bad. Because this site isn't going to change it's stance because of the greed of a few. Our concern is for the millions of people that would be able to grow and smoke their own cannabis without fear of arrest or the negative stigma that goes with it.

And for those of you with questions regarding how you can get involved in the commercial part, I would suggest asking Richard Lee or your local political members.

 

[nomaad]

If you think you'll find any of the Administrators of this site that will agree with your voting the same as Law Enforcment on this Bill you're sadly mistaken.

Gypsy founded this site on the principle of wanting everyone to be able to grow and smoke worldwide without fear of incarceration and arrest. Now it seems it's come to medical marijuana suppliers using this site as a platform to argue to keep marijuana illegal in Cali so they can continue to profit. Your crew is more worried about Richard Lee than you are the millions of people that could benefit by this law being passed.

Who gives a shit about Richard Lee, or for that fact any of you people that would want to see this Bill fail for the sake of greed? I sure don't. And to be honest, it disgusts me. And if you don't like it, that's to bad. Because this site isn't going to change it's stance because of the greed of a few. Our concern is for the millions of people that would be able to grow and smoke their own cannabis without fear of arrest or the negative stigma that goes with it.

Not a word of this post justifies the general tone you have taken. Gypsy himself has posted here and has shown himself capable of taking part in polarized discourse without sounding like a tool.

I am here because I am legitimately undecided and looking for cogent arguments and intellectual criticism of both sides to inform my decision. You are personally responsible for lowering the quality of discourse here. As the admin here, repeatedly and explicitly championing the POV of the site admin, you should be ashamed of yourself. You have no political savvy or skill (obvious by the way you wield your opinion- not the content of it) and have no business representing the Mag in its endorsement of prop 19.

I have tried to stay out of the smack-talking going on it here and just trying to elevate the discussion to something intelligent that people might want to take part in, but your conduct is absolutely pathetic and since you're an Admin, I take specific issue with it.

 

[rives]

I've had a breeding project i've been working on for a year that would be impossible to carry on in a 5x5 space shared with my personal plants. So I would either have to give up something that I am passionate about and feel I have a right to, or keep it going and become a criminal.

How on earth are you doing it now? If you are doing it with a 215 rec, you simply continue doing what you are doing. If you don't have the rec, you are already a criminal.

I am sorry but prop 19 will not keep people out of jail. Again... people are going to jail for carrying more than an oz. This will not change. It is 6 months in jail and 500.00 fine for carrying more than an oz...
[Why would you even want to see this prop pass???

This was asked and answered numerous times yesterday. You should know, because you were the one that kept asking. As was pointed out before, the State of California analysis projects saving tens of millions of dollars as a result of the lower arrest and incarceration rate from 19. Also,again, California has been the trend setter for the nation and thus the world for the last several decades. Passing the most liberal marijuana law in the world will indeed send a message that will impact others.

 

[JJScorpio]

The waste of bandwidth listening to commercial growers come up with one redundant excuse after another to confuse the issues of this Bill has reached a dead end.

And my job isn't to be politically "saavy" as you say. It's to uphold the TOU and the principles of this site. And our mission has always been to see people worldwide grow and smoke their own Cannabis legally.

Not a word of this post justifies the general tone you have taken. Gypsy himself has posted here and has shown himself capable of taking part in polarized discourse without sounding like a tool.

I am here because I am legitimately undecided and looking for cogent arguments and intellectual criticism of both sides to inform my decision. You are personally responsible for lowering the quality of discourse here. As the admin here, repeatedly and explicitly championing the POV of the site admin, you should be ashamed of yourself. You have no political savvy or skill (obvious by the way you wield your opinion- not the content of it) and have no business representing the Mag in its endorsement of prop 19.

I have tried to stay out of the smack-talking going on it here and just trying to elevate the discussion to something intelligent that people might want to take part in, but your conduct is absolutely pathetic and since you're an Admin, I take specific issue with it.

 

[GanjaAL]

That does not answer it and people keep ignoring it:

FACT:

People are going to jail in record number for carying more than an oz. Prop19 dose not stop or hinder that in any way shape or form.

Prop 19 protects you only for an oz or less.

I am not trying to be a horses ass about this... I just want people to know it will not effect arrest rates as they stand now unless prop19 is amended. Chance are it will not but who knows.

Yea california may be a trend setter but have you looked at the fact that there are only 14 mmj states out of 50???? How is rec use going to effect that? It will not in the conservitive state or the bible belt ones. The only hope for nation wide use of this great plant is mmj laws.

As it stands now the VA has approved the use to veterans which in turn will enable use as a defense at the federal level. That is not from rec use. I believe that prop19 may in fact backfire and set us back as one of the main points was and is the incarceration rates.

 

[mrdizzle]

I totally agree bro, I wouldnt even waste your breath on this site, people hear legalization and thats enough for them. Everyone thinks if its legal in cali suddenly thailand is going to change its laws, or flordia is gonna stop busting 400w grows. Fact is most states think california is a fucking joke and this legalization bill just proves it, its already decriminalized in cali, so fall to see the upside, as the same things that will get you busted now will get you busted if it passes

 

[Kalicokitty]

People are going to jail in record number for carying more than an oz. Prop19 dose not stop or hinder that in any way shape or form.

Prop 19 protects you only for an oz or less.

I am not trying to be a horses ass about this... .

I think a horses ass could do a better job of transporting their weed around then you.
Are you really so inept that you can't step out your door without being searched by the police????

Come on up to my non med state, I'll give you a few tips on moving your weed around town safely.

What? Do you carry all your weed in a big clear fanny pack or something?

I don't need any fingers to count all the times I've been caught outside my house with weight, because it's never happened.
And in my state everything is illegal all the time right down to bong water, literally.

I don't understand you GanjaAl
Do you just not feel right unless you're strolling the streets with at least QP in your fanny pack?
Why the big hang up on one small point?

 

[GanjaAL]

LOL... hahahahaha. I do not have to worry about it brother. I do not fit the profile and am a med user. So I can have up to 8oz. I just do not want to see my friends continue to go to jail or anyone for that matter because they decided they wanted to carry a little more than an oz.

Also rec use will not push this movement any faster and could in fact ruin it as a whole with the bible belt states and the concervitive states.

 

[StoneElemental]

I still think it not passing could set us all back the furthest. I understand the legitimate but few concerns over 19 but it still doesn't change my mind however much that actually matters. Kinda sick of both sides continually attacking one another and repeating the same things. Is this the start of a cannabis culture civil war or something? The bill isn't perfect but still very neatly written. And also for the millionth time it can be later amended or replaced with something better. You may just have to compromise for progress' sake and suck it up. This chance seems rare and may not happen again maybe for a long time if at all take it while you can and modify it later instead of throwing it away. Some of the naysayers probably aren't so guilty of being greedy and whatnot. Though I do have to say their views seem pretty close to that of an extremist. How far do you think you're going to go this soon with such extreme ideas?

-S.E.

 

[Kalicokitty]

Also rec use will not push this movement any faster and could in fact ruin it as a whole with the bible belt states and the concervitive states.

Well, this is where we disagree, I feel it will do a great deal to usher in change for the rest of the states.
Utah's probably not going to change for a long time, Texas will drag its heels as well.

Don't forget a lot of bible thumpers smoke too, just drop by the religious forums here for proof of that.

 

[vta]

I have a question. So If I was a grower and selling commercially and wanted to get all the proper permits to go legit and pay whatever it is they want under prop 19.... would they allow an ex felon a permit. Many of the people who have been a large part of the fight in the past to keep cannibus available to all people already have felonies on their records. Just wonder where it will leave those people.

Nobody can answer this yet. It will all depend on how an individual city wants to regulate and license. I'm sure some counties like San Bernadino will not have licenses at first but when they do they will come with tons of regulations and I am sure it will suck. Then again other counties may have a much more relaxed view on the subject and won't be as strict.

 

[GanjaAL]

LOL... yea I am one to. I just know how some of them think and was a hard core conservitive but have since changed my views to moderate. That is why I feel it will not win alot of these other states over and poses a risk to the movement.

Also having friends in politics... they will not support it. They need the concervitive vote. But talk about aids patients, veterans in pain and parents with autistic kids and you can win a concervitive over in no time... but some guy just smoking for rec(which I am not against) and people can not catch that vision at this moment in time.

I am against it because people will still go to jail for being people. I hate the sin tax but I could learn to deal with it.

 

[rives]

I think that rec users masquerading under medical auspices is way more of a problem in the bible belt, and probably responsible for there only being 14 states that have followed California so far. And as I pointed out to you last night, some people simply can't be helped regardless of how liberal the laws are. An added benefit here is that it gets them out of the breeding population. Perhaps you need some brighter friends, Al.