Then I guess things will be just like they are right now, lol.....
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- Thread starter JJScorpio
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Then I guess things will be just like they are right now, lol.....
Yeah what is wrong with you spoiled slaves that won't vote to still be a slave, but a little less so?
thats right the slaves should have stayed on the plantation and rejected the emancipation proclamation as it did not insure complete equality!
except as protected by 215
And what's with you 215 people talking about "bowing down to the Government"? Why didn't you people say "complete legalization or nothing at all"?
Talk about bowing down to the establishment. What a group of self serving hypocrites...... You bowed down and gave up legalization. And now you people are talking about Jim Crow laws and all this other bullshit? What a joke. You're the ones that gave your personal information out and paid the money. You got nothing to talk about....
And now there's a law where people don't have to admit to anything or pay anyone any money to grow and smoke their own and you clowns try and say they are giving up their rights. What a fucking joke some of you are....
Talk about bowing down to the establishment. What a group of self serving hypocrites...... You bowed down and gave up legalization. And now you people are talking about Jim Crow laws and all this other bullshit? What a joke. You're the ones that gave your personal information out and paid the money. You got nothing to talk about....
And now there's a law where people don't have to admit to anything or pay anyone any money to grow and smoke their own and you clowns try and say they are giving up their rights. What a fucking joke some of you are....
Thank you that boils this thread down to the core morality and philosophical decision we all have to make.
The treatment of black Americans over history is a nice parallel to the oppression of our minority, the non-violent weed grower / smoker.
I am just hard wired never to compromise with evil over fundamental values.
I may be wrong, but I think a compromise would mean decades of delay before further progress. What are you blacks bitching about you just voted in this REGULATORY scheme 12 years ago give it some time to see how it works, after all you're not getting beaten nearly as much as before are you?
You may believe that compromise leads to falling dominoes around the world and then quicker MJ freedom. I understand that view point and hope it is correct because this bad law will probably pass, but I think it will slow things down while continuing the vilification of this community.
I don't have a med card and never claimed to. I might be a big ass but I try not to be a hypocrite, that is why I can not endorse the imprisonment of any grower / smoker.
No man, this proposition is a bird in the hand (worth two in the bush) scenario. There is a pound at peak ripeness waiting for you to harvest so don't wait for mold to accumulate in hopes of a few more grams. I say we take it, with the understanding that we will go hunting again tomorrow.
Unfair we were speaking of a Proposition approved by the Voters / Slaves. Not an EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION.
The funny thing is though that EMANCIPATION and total freedom is the only moral path, same as it was 150 years ago when the civil war started.
Let's hope it doesn't take 100+ years to get to cannabis civil rights.
Let's hope it doesn't take 100+ years to get to cannabis civil rights.
it will take 1000 if we wait for perfection
MoldyFrogToe
Member
miltonchitlin
Member
Chris Conrad once again makes a lot of sense in this plea for folks to get it together and get the vote out on Prop. 19. I do not mean to focus on Chris, but sometimes when you can’t say it better yourself, then why bother….
Colleagues,
We have powerful enemies in the November election: Meg Whitman and Steve Cooley. Whitman is an avowed enemy of medical marijuana and would have veto power over all our legislation for the next multiple years. Cooley is such an incompetent attorney that he can’t even read law correctly but he thinks SB 420 does not protect patients, he thinks it mandates prison for anyone with more than a few ounces. These people are a threat to everything we have built up as a movement. And yet “reformers” are wasting energy opposing Prop 19?
Let’s get real. SB 420 — which allows collectives, ID cards, immunity from arrest and safe harbor – is not from an initiative. It was legislated so it can be modified or upended at any time, with or without Prop 19. The safe harbor quantities that People v Kelly provides could be dropped to a few grams, and gardens reduced to a couple plants and 10 square feet. Read the People v Urziceanu decision’s evaluation of Prop 215 v SB 420 to get an idea of what losing SB420 means. It’s not pretty.
At this point, a no vote on Prop 19 combined with a Whitman/Cooley victory is a no vote on SB 420, a no vote on safe harbors, a no vote on collectives, and the prohibitionists will litigate like it is a no vote on Prop 215 and a yes vote to send adults to jail for small personal amounts of marijuana. Every bit of energy we spend “debating the merits” of Prop 19 is energy that we give to the drug warriors because none of it matters at all if we lose Prop 19. We must pass it.
Here’s why: If Prop 19 passes, it guarantees that localities can license sales to patients because it allows licensed sales to anyone over age 21 (I know, it sucks for people below age 21, but let’s stay on point here). If Prop 19 passes, it guarantees that patients will be able to have at least an ounce just by virtue of being adults. It specifically lists Prop 215/ HS11362.5 and SB 420 statutes in two places in the purposes, by general reference in the purpose “6. Provide easier, safer access for patients who need cannabis for medical purposes.” and “12. Make cannabis available for scientific, medical, industrial, and research purposes” and by statutes as in “except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.” That would not even have been necessary because it also protects them by _not naming those statutes as being changed anywhere in the newly created statutes. (Remember the Galambos appeals court held that it was illegal to transport medical marijuana because Prop 215 did _not name HS11360 transportation_ as being changed; luckily the legislature passed SB420 to protect it.) It says in the ballot argument that themedical marijuana laws are “preserved.” That alone could be used in court to defend collectives and safe harbor if the legislature turns sour and try to change SB 420.
Without Prop 19, patients and collectives are at greater risk than with it, and if it loses it sends exactly the wrong message to the legislature, namely that Californians don’t want legal marijuana. That will be cited as a pendulum change, and that could bode disaster. Remember, we have in our midst paid agitators and provocateurs who are determined to undermine us and stop Prop 19 from being passed. They prey on your fear. They claim to be our allies, and to be helping, but they are our opponents determined to keep cannabis consumers criminals. Unfortunately, we can’t tell them from the zealots because some people with good intentions are freaked out, running in circles and screaming that the sky is falling, the sky is falling. Well, the sky might well be falling if Prop 19 loses.
Get over it, pull yourselves together and go out to register every voter you can get your hands on and drag them to the polls to vote Yes on Prop 19 and No to Whitman and Cooley on Nov 2, or better yet to vote absentee Yes on Prop 19 and No to Whitman and Cooley.
– Chris Conrad, court-qualified cannabis expert and consultant
Colleagues,
We have powerful enemies in the November election: Meg Whitman and Steve Cooley. Whitman is an avowed enemy of medical marijuana and would have veto power over all our legislation for the next multiple years. Cooley is such an incompetent attorney that he can’t even read law correctly but he thinks SB 420 does not protect patients, he thinks it mandates prison for anyone with more than a few ounces. These people are a threat to everything we have built up as a movement. And yet “reformers” are wasting energy opposing Prop 19?
Let’s get real. SB 420 — which allows collectives, ID cards, immunity from arrest and safe harbor – is not from an initiative. It was legislated so it can be modified or upended at any time, with or without Prop 19. The safe harbor quantities that People v Kelly provides could be dropped to a few grams, and gardens reduced to a couple plants and 10 square feet. Read the People v Urziceanu decision’s evaluation of Prop 215 v SB 420 to get an idea of what losing SB420 means. It’s not pretty.
At this point, a no vote on Prop 19 combined with a Whitman/Cooley victory is a no vote on SB 420, a no vote on safe harbors, a no vote on collectives, and the prohibitionists will litigate like it is a no vote on Prop 215 and a yes vote to send adults to jail for small personal amounts of marijuana. Every bit of energy we spend “debating the merits” of Prop 19 is energy that we give to the drug warriors because none of it matters at all if we lose Prop 19. We must pass it.
Here’s why: If Prop 19 passes, it guarantees that localities can license sales to patients because it allows licensed sales to anyone over age 21 (I know, it sucks for people below age 21, but let’s stay on point here). If Prop 19 passes, it guarantees that patients will be able to have at least an ounce just by virtue of being adults. It specifically lists Prop 215/ HS11362.5 and SB 420 statutes in two places in the purposes, by general reference in the purpose “6. Provide easier, safer access for patients who need cannabis for medical purposes.” and “12. Make cannabis available for scientific, medical, industrial, and research purposes” and by statutes as in “except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.” That would not even have been necessary because it also protects them by _not naming those statutes as being changed anywhere in the newly created statutes. (Remember the Galambos appeals court held that it was illegal to transport medical marijuana because Prop 215 did _not name HS11360 transportation_ as being changed; luckily the legislature passed SB420 to protect it.) It says in the ballot argument that themedical marijuana laws are “preserved.” That alone could be used in court to defend collectives and safe harbor if the legislature turns sour and try to change SB 420.
Without Prop 19, patients and collectives are at greater risk than with it, and if it loses it sends exactly the wrong message to the legislature, namely that Californians don’t want legal marijuana. That will be cited as a pendulum change, and that could bode disaster. Remember, we have in our midst paid agitators and provocateurs who are determined to undermine us and stop Prop 19 from being passed. They prey on your fear. They claim to be our allies, and to be helping, but they are our opponents determined to keep cannabis consumers criminals. Unfortunately, we can’t tell them from the zealots because some people with good intentions are freaked out, running in circles and screaming that the sky is falling, the sky is falling. Well, the sky might well be falling if Prop 19 loses.
Get over it, pull yourselves together and go out to register every voter you can get your hands on and drag them to the polls to vote Yes on Prop 19 and No to Whitman and Cooley on Nov 2, or better yet to vote absentee Yes on Prop 19 and No to Whitman and Cooley.
– Chris Conrad, court-qualified cannabis expert and consultant
Like I said not going to be in San Diego, so where is the doob ranch going to be?
I have read the prop. and I read the CA criminal statute posted in this thread that said "Concentrated" mj felony over 28.5 grams of bud felony.
Oh yeah here is the link for the proposal:
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/vig-public-display/110210-general-election/prop-19/text-prop-19.pdf
See I went to the CA secretary of state. This PDF is cool because it has all kinds of HAND written changes, you should really look at it.
Page one of the PDF used to contain "and the penal code" but that has been scratched out and now prop 19 modifies or changes only the "Health and Safety Code"
"Only the active amount of cannabis in an edible cannabis product shall be included." This is really the only reference to concentrated MJ I can find, but Prop 19 doesn't modify the penal code and in the penal code ANY amount of concentrated MJ is a felony.
Again good luck getting that license and if the doob ranch is in a cool beach city I'll come visit.
JJ already posted the statute that says hash and edibles are legal under 19 .. But keeping making up any shit possible to decieve voters into voting to your liking.
As to my resort, I would love for you to come by so I can slap the shit out of you and drag your face through the mud like Daniel day Lewis in there Will be blood for the way you knowingly misguide voters. Any chance you watch hannity or beck? You sound just like those fucking ass clowns
gotta leave off the jabs at political parties...
the idiot libturds side with leo on this one too
Not exactly when your Dept of Rev starts it's own enforcement division with special priveledges and funding (and they will, b/c tax money will be there and they will need to justify their budgets). Then the fun will really start.im sorry i didnt realize your ability to comprehend the english was compromised.
the law limits enforcement by saying:
you see all those things are illegal now and there are regulations toenforce that prohibition.
after TC2010 passes the enforcement of that prohibition will be prohibited because the prohibition of those activities will be lifted.
"Now you have something to fix!"
that is how you limit enforcement of existing law.
hope this helps with your inability to comprehend
I like to think of the scene in Falling Down, when he blows up the street that CalTrans is working on.
Our CA issue, start your own tax act in NY. so how does this effect you? any state in this country can step up and put a bill into the voting process. why not make it work for you instead of people on the opposite side of the country. Have you dealt with the same thing prop 215 patients have? it has everything to do with prop 215. If government wont listen to a law implemented for sick people. why would it be any different for a bunch of potheads? because even us as true med patients get chastized for using cannabis. Have you or anyone you know been arrested in a legal state while following the law? Shit plenty here in San Diego have, and patients up and down the state fight prosecution because again it's at the discretion of an officer and DA. You know how a cop can say you were doing 90 in a 70 zone and the judge listens because that officer deals with the same issue all day and can distinguish speed and difference of speeds. That same cop is aboe to dictate if you are carrying over an ounce, arrest or ticket you and then you have to fight it again. how is it different? Prop 215 is not perfect but we have found a balance. Really my issue is with all these people calling us 215 patients out when they have not dealt with the issues. It's a fairy tale world here on the net and somehow your fantasy of a california law effecting NY residents fits that fairy tale well. When you deal with the REAL issues real CALIFORNIANS face then you will maybe get some say or a little respect from your opinions. Prop 215 has everything to do with this, maybe not directly, but remember it's been almost 15 years since 215 was passed when/if 19 passes I can see the gross misuse of authority happeninf again. All the little issues that we are questioning here on this thread are the same issues that will be brought to court when the DA's try and find loopholes to 19. meaning growers, patients and users will still be prosecuted...local municipalities have a history of not following the laws when applied to cannabis. So what I really have to say is, if you want to make a change in YOUR area, get off your ass, get off the computer and start gathering signatures, this bill has nothing to with anyone outside of CA, get out of your fantasy world and DO what you have told people to do here, stand up and make a difference. The overwhelming response from no voters is that it's just not right, to many loopholes. Loopholes in 215 is what's getting people arrested. This has everything to do with cali residents. If your gonna vote yes, than vote yes and be happy about your decision as it's your vote and no one can put you down for it. but vote yes for the right reasons, not because it might help other states and countries legalise it, or help some nations get govt aid, or some other fantasy saving people from HIV. People who are telling you to vote yes and are not going to be directly affected are convincing you based on a fairy tale that everything ends well in the king's land instead of selling you on the the bill itself. Your vote affects you, not this international community who think that this passing bill is somehow going to magically effect them. if prop 19 works for you than vote for it, if it doesnt dont let other people convince you for the wrong reasons, they have there own government systems which they can fight or vote on, we have all been taught the same laws and justice system in the US, so I challenge those calling out prop 215 patients or anyone else to vote yes, to get up and do something in local area that effects you.. It's BS that because we feel a certain way about it, that it will affect someone somewhere else. Vote for you!
This movement has always been about legalizing, so because one state in the entire world is voting on this everyone has to stop their legalizing efforts? that is not helping either, you can't put all your eggs in one basket and hope it works out. Common sense people. You cant expect us the CA public to magically fix prohibition in your area single handedly, why not change it for yourself? Prop 19 will affect California residents, no one else, not gypsy or the whole IC mag admin, or the rest of the world.
No disrespect here but I think everyone needs to be real about how change works in a legal venue, and how it takes years to implement new laws properly. Patients of california know this more than anyone, and that is what is holding people back. You might forget we have laws here in cali like 215 that police generally ignore, again 14 years later and it's still happening. how will this be implemented when local governments want nothing to do with it? even if it passes things are gonna take years to change and people will still be going to jail. a facade like 215, we just made 215 work for us through persistence. Dont forget 2 other bills were written, they just got knocked down by the money of R. Lee. Anybody remember what Jack Herer was talking about as he had his heartattack that eventually took his life?
or maybe the department of weights and measures will start an ounce enforcement division to test your scales?
wait i got a good one...
maybe the d.e.p. will start an enforcement division to make sure you dispose of res. water properly?
or
the department of blowjob regulation will come around and make my wife blow me daily!!!!
seriously are you arguing the "this could happen" angle?
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