I want to hear your opinions on breeders, seeds, and prices. [Jun 15]

[Pendleton]

I don't really buy at all, but I'll have a good laugh when the price drops to actual value and winnows off the bandwaggoners.

I want to see the floor fucking *drop*. Like Johnny's Seeds or Burpee's cheap, the way hemp seed would be in a legal market. Or if we can't get to that, enough of the 10 seeds $50-100 rubbish, let's see 25 or 50 seeds for those prices. Prohibition does insane things to both the price itself and the elasticity of demand.

 

[Koondense]

Yeah, science in breeding...
I think NO breeder works with DNA data, so it's not factual deep science, more just superficial observation and selection, big "if", at all.
Mostly it's hype and ugly marketing practices fed by a horde of non enquiring customers.

 

[MDfinest]

Yeah, science in breeding...
I think NO breeder works with DNA data, so it's not factual deep science, more just superficial observation and selection, big "if", at all.
Mostly it's hype and ugly marketing practices fed by a horde of non enquiring customers.

You know the interesting part is that now many botanists are questioning the whole Sativa, Indica perspective and are saying that it's all really just plant morphology. Any strain you take to a given climate, under certain environmental conditions is going to start to morph and will adapt to that environment. If that environment coaxes the plant to be heat resistant and drought tolerant and not potent and high yielding then there she will go. No two plants are the same anyway, either closely related or distant.

I'm very convinced that the idea of "strains" is pretty vague outside of the fact that if said breeder has produced this variety for a while that it is going be true to the standards he bred it to, depending on how "good" he is. But in another environment, it'll change.. and it'll drift. That's why if it grows good where I'm at, I keep it and try to develop it. Outside of that I don't buy into any of the hype. If you grow out large enough populations I'm convinced that all drug varieties of cannabis have gems to be found. Not everyone has the time, space, and patience for it so here comes in the BREEDER to supply the demand.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

^^thats right.... bring the fire breeders.... whether f16 or f1... just be honest with the customers and our wallets will do the talkin.... im a fan of verdant green and the way he shows and taste tests everything... any breeder willing to put it all out there karma being another one...

VG "breeds" in like 1 cubic foot of space, if you consider that "breeding" you need to go have a look at the actual breeding operations of guys like Shantibaba, Sam Skunkman, Tom Hill, Chimera, Dubi from Ace, Charlie Garcia, DJ short etc...

Pollen chucking a few strains someone else made in a shoe box is not breeding, its pollen chucking at best. I hate to be a dick but sometimes some things just need to be said.

 

[Dropped Cat]

VG "breeds" in like 1 cubic foot of space, if you consider that "breeding" you need to go have a look at the actual breeding operations of guys like Shantibaba, Sam Skunkman, Tom Hill, Chimera, Dubi from Ace, Charlie Garcia, DJ short etc...

Pollen chucking a few strains someone else made in a shoe box is not breeding, its pollen chucking at best. I hate to be a dick but sometimes some things just need to be said.

Nothing wrong with making crosses, keeping records,
and doing so in a small space. Takes dedication no matter
the scale of the operation.

I admire a grower who can use thousands of plants to
make stable seeds. I buy them, and sometimes they
even germinate. Some actually grow into great cannabis.

So the story of all breeders is taking what they have and
crossing for generations to favor a given direction.

Don't discount small space breeders, they can, and will,
have greater impact than the fading old school big space
breeders in the long term.

 

[Mikell]

I want to see the floor fucking *drop*. Like Johnny's Seeds or Burpee's cheap, the way hemp seed would be in a legal market. Or if we can't get to that, enough of the 10 seeds $50-100 rubbish, let's see 25 or 50 seeds for those prices. Prohibition does insane things to both the price itself and the elasticity of demand.

Exactly. Even with today's wholesale prices a good profit can be made. Not the rape of today and yesteryear, but still substantially more than peppers or heirloom veg.

Another thing that grinds my gears is when customers buy into the "but man, one seed can make hundreds in bud" argument. I don't doubt that, nor do I doubt the man that sold you that seed payed more than 25c for it. Bloody rubes with Stolkholm Syndrome.

 

[944s2]

The hype.

I like making crosses, but that's a far cry from what a breeder should be.

A cultivar that sells for 8 euros a seed must do two things well.

Germinate, and represent the genetics involved in the cross.

Every time.

If that's too much to ask, then charge less, and don't be
such a little bitch about it.

It's really not grower fault that purchased gear fails to germinate or sucks balls.

I'd pay 15 euros each if the seeds fucking did what they say they would.

And how about a date stamp on the packs? If I wanted old seeds I'd
root around my couch and plant those I find there.

ugh.

This subject touched a nerve.

Carry on, lol.

hey dropped cat.....
sweet seeds stamp the backs of all packs with the date,,,
be nice if others follow,,,,s2

 

[Hammerhead]

Many seem to forget all these Cultivars have already been tested time and time again. When I take a known well tested cultivar and cross it to another well tested cultivar your not gonna get poor quality 99% of the time. You surly don't need more than 5 people to test it. There all already proven Cultivars tested over years from the growing public.. If you don't see bad traits in 50+ plants your likely to not see them. No guarantees, I cant do that when mother nature is in charge. Taking 20+ people to retest the genetics in the makeup that has already been tested alot is a waste of time. These seeds are made for the top genetics we use today. If I was starting with a landrace I would agree lot's of testing is needed. Most of the seed makers are not using landrace genetics to start with. If they are they should know it will take years to finish that project. None of the seeds I make haven't been worked at some point.. I have never found a plant from the seeds I have made to be worse then anything bought from a "BREEDER".. Most of the old school Breeders don't even test there work anymore. Why because they are all proven lines they feel they need to be tested im guessing. Price is extremely subjective. You can find excellent cannabis for 20$ pack of seeds, You will also find hay in that pack of seeds. I have grown many cheaper seeds. I still love looking through those from the early Sensi Seed Line. I found a keeper in Shiva Shanti II who would have thought. She was super potent. The rest where not worth growing.

 

[UptownChill]

16 beans for US $103?

13 paid for from 4 different breeders and 3 freebs from yet 3 other breeders. All fems and some autos. $13 of that $103 is for shipping and another $13 for a T-Shirt and a guarantee. That's $6.50 total a bean and a free T-shirt shipped. It can be done even cheaper. And that's a solid 3 years or more worth of beans for a micro guy that doesn't grow perpetually. I would suggest you google up "discount codes" from the seed banks. They are out there, but sometimes you have to look for them. "Roll20" works at midweeksong for June. Not aware about the others.

Not sure why many of you seem to be having issues with breeder strains. Amost all of mine pop. I've had like maybe 1 or 2 duds out of 20 or so over 6 years. Maybe you should check some reviews and journals before you choose? I buy from the well established breeders like Dinafem and some cheapies too. Try different strains every time as well. And different breeders, but Dinafem is my go to on the shopping list every time. They just make quality every time in my experience. And they are usually hardy as hell. It's good to mix it up a bit with different breeders just in case you are the guy that gets the "bad" batch. I'm sure it happens. I think some of the bad experiences can be attributed to grower error.

That's just from a small timers perspective. Buying female genes is really a no brainer considering a micro guy for personal might only plant 1 or 2 beans. Then again you can always buy $20 worth of CS or Teresias Mist and run your own seeds from from the breeder genes you purchased. I haven't but, will just because.

Pollen chucking actually sounds cool. But, your mostly just chucking highly refined genes from the real breeders. Unless you're flying off to the mountains of Afghanistan or whatever and retrieving genes from the wild. I might try to do a little pollen chuckin some day. Not going to fly off to Afghanistan though. LoL. I got some TM, I'll just run seeds from the quality breeder strains if I ever do.

At the end of the day tho, next time I buy beans I will buy different strains than before. I'll support the breeders so they can keep coming out with good stuff. I feel the today quality of MJ today compared to 30 years ago is because of the work of the breeders.

I would imagine growing on a commercial scale is entirely different. Of course I am sure many of those on that scale just use clones to isolate the best fems/genes. My wife tries to tell me to clone. I'm like why? It's easy as spit, but why when your only growing a plant or two?

I spend more than $6.50 a week on coffee. A bean that produces an O will last me at least a couple of months. I usually get 2 or more even from a 2 month auto. That's well worth the $6.50 even factoring in I will eventually get a dud.

Worst thing about ordering seeds outside of the USA is the anxiety of waiting for the package to arrive. Worrying that customs will hijack your stuff. I have never had it happened but, heard. But, $103 dollars ain't nothing these days. That's just dinner and a movie for two on a Saturday.

 

[aridbud]

Unless you're flying off to the mountains of Afghanistan or whatever and retrieving genes from the wild.......

Yep, been there, doing that (retrieving genes from the wild) for last 5 years. A Southern CO ruderalis and a European ruddy counterpart in our work.

 

[UptownChill]

Nice!

Nice!

Unless you're flying off to the mountains of Afghanistan or whatever and retrieving genes from the wild.......

Yep, been there, doing that (retrieving genes from the wild) for last 5 years. A Southern CO ruderalis and a European ruddy counterpart in our work.

I think the U.S. Breeders are rapidly catching up to the overseas guys. Also seeing some clone only stuff being popular like GG4. I haven't tried it but the hype over GG is incredible. I am sure it's got to be good to become this popular.

 

[Mikell]

All we need now are some identity theft victims to come in and tell us how great their lives have become since losing everything.

 

[UptownChill]

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couple of respectable american seedbanks operating atm, been wondering whats going to happen to eu banks when things are a bit more stable and legal in the states.wonder if the tude will have an american site? greenhouse seeds have been doing alot of promo work over there.

Yep I'm watching too. Too much anxiety when ordering from overseas. I'm not planning on ordering anything in the near future but, I bet in a couple more years we'll have state side choices. Gonna be tough letting go of the favs from overseas though. Would love to have my old favs on the list with American strains too though. I'm seeing some movement over to clone only as well. It's all good man. The weed industry is on fire right now. Wish I would have thought to get in on it 5 or 10 years and supply the need in some way. Lights, nutes, seeds whatever. It's getting a bit crowded now. I actually did start a website about 4 or 5 years ago marketing Amazon products. I built a cheesy little page, but never got around to get it out there and never built up any traffic. It's gone now.